• promdates

That's probably one if the only few fights where I would probably prefer to have tsa. Mostly due to melée having to avoid fire and other things throughout the fight.

"On a scale of one to mein kampf, how many racists does it take to make a guild look terrible?"

[03:28] L_J: it's "olololo hero class"

[01:09:39] <DeeNogger> Any of the resident grammer nazis on right now?

 

Starwind

From MMO-C, 3.2.2 Patch Notes:
Hunter Tier-9 2-Piece Bonus: Critical damage from Serpent Sting will now work properly with the Mortal Shots and Expose Weakness talents.

It is still possible that the bonus will effect Chim-Serp.

 

Trickytrout

That change has nothing to do with Chimera-Serpent. It is just fixing the Serpent Sting crits to do the proper amount of damage. There is absolutely no way that it could ever affect Chimera-serpent damage since it calculates based off of the full duration of one Serpent Sting. It can't predict how many of the ticks would/wouldn't crit.

 

Rivkah

I ran some new tests on PTR and it looks like they fixed mortal shots, but I'm not seeing an indication that they fixed the crits being based off the spell crit formula. I'm not sure if I'm doing the math right though because the damage for the crits seems to be coming out slightly higher off the expected number with mortal shots and the crit meta, but not high enough to indicate that the crit bonus was based off 100% instead of 50%.

My test numbers:
120 ticks- min 422, avg 525, max 583
75 crits- min 721, avg 897, max 997

 

Mr Tazza

50% critbonus x1.3 (mortal shots) x1.03 (meta) = 66.95%

422 x1.6695 = 704.5
525 x1.6695 = 876.5
583 x1.6695 = 973.3

These numbers are indeed lower, though I think the calculation could be like this:

50% critbonus x1.3 (mortalshots) = 65%

422 x1.65 = 696.3 ---> 696.3 x1.03 (meta) = 717.2
525 x1.65 = 866.3 ---> 866.3 x1.03 (meta) = 892.2
583 x1.65 = 962.0 ---> 962.0 x1.03 (meta) = 990.8

These are still slightly lower, but indeed closer to your values.

In both cases the difference increases the higher the values are (obviously).

 

Ktharsis

For IC hard mode the other day, based on the wisdom in this thread, I made sure to put a Serpent Sting on Steelbreaker during phase 1 while I had the Rune of Power buff, and then maintained it through phase 2 with Chimera Shot so that I would get extra damage for the burn in phase 3. So far so good.

When I checked the logs afterwards, I was pleased to see all that extra damage on my Serpent Sting during phase 3 (1350 ticks instead of 900), but I was disappointed to realize that Chimera-Serpent didn't hit any harder than normal. I assume this is the expected behavior, just something I didn't realize.

The extra sting damage amounted to 2.5% extra damage over the course of phase 3. From this, I infer that using the tactic of applying Serpent Sting while affected by the Tricks buff would increase my damage over the length of a fight by about 0.8%.

I have two questions. First, does anything about what I've just said sound strange to anyone, or am I indeed seeing the expected behavior? Second, are there any buffs to Serpent Sting that will also increase the damage of Chimera-Serpent (other than the glyph, of course)?

 

Pijn

Odd, buffing your Serpent Sting in said way should increase your Chimera-Serpent as well. At least it happens for me, same goes for Vezax' Shadowcrash (And i reckon the buff you get at Twin Valkyr after collecting 100 energy works as well, though haven't tested it myself yet).

 

Gutchewa

This could be a tooltip error on the current ptr and no testing has been conducted to determine whether that is the case, I didn't read anything in any notes about a change or maybe I've missed something.

PTR version 0.2.2 (10371)



LIVE

 

Ktharsis

Here is a log from the Steelbreaker phase of our IC kill. Note that my Sting ticks for 1372 (click on Damage by Spell tab) and my Chimera-Serpent hits for 2714 normal and 6177 crit.

For comparison purposes, here is a log of a typical fight (Kologarn) without any special buffs. My Sting ticks for 890 here and my Chimera-Serpent hits for 2442 normal and 6288 crit.

So my Serpent Sting gets buffed by the 50% you'd expect, but my Chimera-Serpent isn't getting any special bonus.

But let's take a look at a third scenario. Here is a log from the earlier part of the fight where I'm actually standing in the Rune of Power. My Sting ticks for only 920 (suggesting that I forgot to manually refresh it on my target after entering the Rune of Power) but my Chimera-Serpent hits for 4233 normal and 8002 crit. Clearly the reason my Chimera-Serpent is hitting so much harder is because I'm standing in a Rune of Power, not because my Serpent Sting itself is any more damaging than normal (because it's not).

What I'd infer from this is that if your Chimera-Serpent is doing more damage on General Vezax, it's because you're firing it while actually standing in Shadow Crash, not because your Serpent Sting is ticking for a higher number. I guess the test would involve firing a Chimera Shot while outside of Shadow Crash, something you probably don't do much of.

I'm still trying to make sense of what all of this tells us about the Chimera-Serpent damage calculation and how we can get the most out of it.

 

Saltyone

It appears that Blizz corrected the tooltip in the PTR to calculate the actual armor reduction against the cap, rather than the "natural" armor penetration. Are you targetting something on the PTR and not on Live, perhaps? I wonder what MobLevel & MobArmor constant it will use by default on the paper doll... (I'll use a lv83 Boss here)

See this post: Formulas:Armor penetration - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

* A level 83 boss has 10643 armor
* 1% Armor Reduction = 12.31 Armor Penetration Rating
* Maximum Ignorable Armor (the "Cap") = 935/6 * MobLevel + MobArmor/3 - 44335/6
* Level 83 with 10643 Armor = 9093 Armor

Anyway, compare these two formulas, this one reflects the paper doll value on live:

10643 - 10643 * 80/12.31/100 = 9951
(1-9951/10643)*100 = 6.499%

And this one is closer to what is being calculated on the PTR (notice it's using the cap rather than mob armor)

10643 - 9093 * 80/12.31/100 = 10052
(1-10052/10643)*100 = 5.553%

 

Hentrenson

@ Ktharsis

The reason why your chimera-serpent wont hit harder when only your sting is improved, is to prevent double dipping. The same aplies to when you stand in the rune, but don't refresth the sting, your chimera-serpent just does that more dmg, which is normal.

 

olivier

I just have a question about the IC fight (or other boosted-DPS fight) :

The Chimera Shot tooltip said "You deal 125% weapon damage, refreshing the current Sting on your target ..."

I just want to know if the refresh of serpent sting made by the CS refresh the 'original' serpent sting buff, or refresh this buff according to all the others buff you have ? ( In Real-Time I mean )

For example, if at one moment I'm into the rune, will my serpent sting buff refresh by the CS become stronger or not, or do I have to refresh the serpent sting when I'm going into the rune ?

 

◊ Tobin

In my experience, it depends on the encounter. On Vezax, you have to apply a brand new SrS while standing in a Shadow Crash. On Molgeim's Runes of Power, I don't think it's necessary.

 

Nataliah

If the Serpent Sting was applied without the damage buff, you will have to reapply it when you do get the damage buff. Once the "improved" Serpent Sting is applied, Chimera Shot will refresh the improved Serpent Sting even if the damage buff wears off. If you do not reapply Serpent Sting with the damage buff, the Serpent Sting will remain as the unimproved version whether you use Chimera Shot with the buff or not.

Scenario A: Your Serpent Sting does 800 damage normally. You gain the damage buff and reapply the sting, causing it to do 1600 damage. Chimera Shot refreshes your sting and it does 1600 damage. You lose the damage buff and refresh with Chimera Shot. The sting continues to do 1600 damage.

Scenario B: Your Serpent Sting does 800 damage normally. You gain the damage buff and don't reapply the sting. Chimera Shot refreshes the sting but it still does 800 damage. You lose the damage buff and refresh with Chimera Shot. Obviously your sting stays at 800 damage.

This applies to IC, Vezax, Malygos, and Thaddius.

 

nothing111

I have one question regarding the use of Mjolnir Runestone / Grim Toll to reach the ArP cap.

Could somebody please explain to me why it would be such a bad idea to use both at the same time, given they don't share the same cooldown (from what I read on wowhead)? I've never really seen that option discussed anywhere, even here on EJ.

I mean, I understand that sometimes both procs could take place at the same time, so one would be partially wasted. But most of the time, I imagine that they would be seperated. Also 53 ArP would be half wasted because of the use of Mjolnir with 620 ArP from the equipment (to reach the cap with Grim Toll). But this doesn't seem like such a big loss to me.

I wouldn't even ask this if in the spreadsheet, when I replace my Greatness Card with Mjolnir (while keeping Grim Toll and being hit capped), I didn't see a ~55 dps increase. Both trinkets seem to be the best combo until Death's Choice / Verdict replaces Grim Toll. Is there something I'm missing that the spreadsheet doesn't show?

 

alienangel

They do tend to proc at the same time since they proc fairly quickly once the ICD is up, leading to no benefit from having both equipped. You can probably make this a lot less likely though on certain fights by dequipping one of them and reequping right before you start the fight, then immediately starting your attacks, hopefully proccing one while the other is still on cooldown from being equipped - that's assuming that the recent changes to put valanyr on ICD when equipped also applies to these trinkets. If you manage that, and then don't stop dps at any point long enough to let both be simultaneously off ICD, I think you'd avoid the majority of the overlap - but this already sounds like setting up for a very specific type of fight, basically brutallus or patchwerk type things.

The biggest issue I see with the deal is that for most people the hit on GT is mostly or completely wasted, so all you're getting is the proc. Might be worth trying for a high Ignis or Jaraxxus parse though.

 

lightfury

I've been digging around these servers looking for tips and layouts the way that the Survival and Beast Master Raiding topics are. I haven't had much luck. I am currently raiding with a guild that has 2 hunters normally. Currently, we are both Survival. I am changing my spec to Marksman to provide TSA to the raids. The current Marksman Spec that I have created is
My Marksman Spec.
I am looking for any advice on improvements to boost DPS. In Survival I average around 2.9-3.2K DPS in Marksman i'm 2.5-2.9K. I know that I must be doing something wrong and the only thing I can geuss is that I am new to Marksman and am getting rotation or my spec wrong.

 

Rathenel

Marksman questions (Thread Post #2059)

Marksman questions (Thread Post #2064)

Didn't Blizzard fix rolling Serpents from Chimera Shot in 3.0.8 (or 3.0.9)? As I understand it, because the original mechanic for rolling DoTs allowed Hunters, Warlocks, and Shadow Priests to maintain a very high output DoT over the course of an entire fight, all three abilities (Chimera Shot, Pain and Suffering, Everlasing Affliction) were changed to re-apply at current Attack Power (or Spell Power depending on scaling attribute) instead of extending already existing DoT.

 

Pijn

Blizz did indeed fix that in patch 3.0.8 but Serpent Sting is still affected by %damage modifiers (Thaddius, Malygos, Iron Council, Vezax and - recently added - Twin Valkyr), meaning that if you apply SrS while under the effect of one these % increasing buffs, it will continue to tick with increased damage for the rest of the fight, even though you no longer have the buffs after.

However, I myself (and many hunters with me) was under the impression that Chimera-Serpent followed the same rules, and looked at the current amount of damage Serpent Sting was doing (if it was buffed, then Chimera-SrS would be buffed as well, regardless if the hunter still had the percent-modifying buffs). Browsing closely through the logs posted by Ktharsis, and my own logs on a few fights, it appears it was a misconception; even when your Serpent Sting is buffed by Shadowcrash/Rune circle, Chimera-Serpent ignores that fact and simply looks at how much damage Serpent Sting would do if it wasn't buffed by such effects.

 

Cerevantes

Current Dots do modify their damage based off of your Spell Power / Attack Power of present. However, those three abilities, and Glyph of Disease retain percent based modifiers, allowing you to roll incredible numbers akin to the old Scorpid Poison stacking with modifiers as such.

:EDIT: Bah. Pijn beat me to it.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...evantes323.png

 

Sappalicious

Good afternoon all,

I have been reading the MM thread for information on MM dsp v/s SV dps. As I understand it MM is only better when you are Arm Pen capped. I am at 318 Arm Pen now, but when I run the numbers on Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer it tells me MM is better by about 400ish dps, even though I am not Arm Pen capped, and I don't have the best Arm Pen trinkets.

My questions is: Am I doing something wrong on the spreadsheet that would produce eroneous numbers or is MM actually better than SV even if you are not Arm Pen capped?


MM build/glyphs used in spreadsheet:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Assumed best raid buffs/debuffs

Shot rotation:

Rapid Fire > KS > SrS > CS > AS > ArS + Silenc Shot > Readiness (just inserted it here in the rotation) > SS

Came out to 6581 dps


SV build/glypsh just lick my profile (standard build with KS/SS/ES glyphs)

Rapid Fire > KS > ES > BA > AS > SrS > SS

Came out to 6150 dps


Everything I have read says SV should be better dps before you are Arm Pen capped. So, again, am I setting up a rotation that isn't obtainable, or doing something weird that would skew the numbers. Let me know.


Edit: Well I must have done something wrong to begin with. Now I am getting 6946 from SV and 6502 from MM with the builds listed above. /sigh.

Saved my builds at Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer

Sapp SV Build
Sapp MM Build

I will do some checking within this thread to see if I can determine at what lvl gear MM represents more dps than SV. Thanks to any and all that can offer help.

 

Vercgetorix

With ~240 Arm Pen and Giant's Bane, MM came out ahead in real raid experience for me over survival. I didn't have an arm pen trinket (still don't). Your burst is also more easily controlled with MM as instead of getting random jumps with LnL hoping that it coincides with a trinket proc or BL, you have readiness to call when its most appropriate.

 

Domo

I am currently looking at the some of the gem dps increase with the hunter spreadsheet, and yet I am still very confused with ArmPen stats. I realized that with the current BiS Spreadsheet every gem socket is placed with a ArmPen gem, then I load up the normal and update it with my current gear, but with ArmPen gem. It does seem to lower the DPS by a bit.

I was wondering is there a certain soft cap that I should meet before I start gemming for ArmPen to make it effective?
Secondly, how many of the marksman hunter here would use Kill Shot glyph over Chimera or Aimed Shot glyph?

 

dssurge

You should use KS glyph over Chim/Aimed due to the fact that the 10 second cooldowns on both abilities allow for a 0-haste gear rotation. On top of that, if you're playing MM, KS is a very significant portion of your damage for only being cast 3-4 times per boss fight due to needing to stack Armor Pen to achieve high DPS numbers as MM.

Basically, you would need about 400 haste to make full use of both the Aimed and Chim glyphs in order to reliably use them on 9 second CD's, and you would need to drop the Steady Shot glyph in order to get both, which is actually the deal breaker. Getting one would be fairly pointless and lead to a lot of wasted ISS procs, and the Steady Shot glyph produces significantly more damage than either the Chim or Aimed glyphs are capable of.

 

Zann

i don't think a sv want to see LnL proc during BL =/

so... I'm ArP capped... should I spam SS/Aim during trinket's proc or should I keep my normal rotaion with CS?