Har

This thread is all about hit rating on the live realms.

At level 80, 32.79 hit rating will yield 1% hit rating. Hunter hit gives pets expertise and hit.

Hit cap
The current hit cap is 8%, 263 without a nearby friendly Draenei, 231 with one.

Bugs
While hunter hit rating from gear will pass expertise to the pet as planned, the Draenei hit aura does not, and the focused aim talent does not seem to be passing as much as it should.

If you notice misses in your recount or WWS
If you see a log parse or recount report with misses you weren't expecting, before posting your question, double check:
-That the boss you were on does not have a debuff to hit like Archavon
-That your pet's misses were not incurred within a few seconds of being summoned before they had had a chance to reinherit your stats (Malygos' Vortex despawns and respawns your pet)
-That they aren't mislabeled dodges

The value of hit
Hit is a stat that lowers our chance to miss. Every single character under the hit cap will gain more DPS from adding hit than any other stat. That said, adding hit ONLY increases your DPS. It does not do anything magic. If the spreadsheet says "you gain 1.4 DPS per agility and 1.6 DPS per hit", by all means, take advantage and get as much hit as you can until you're capped. Don't, however, equip gear that results in a loss of overall DPS in an attempt to get hit capped. The only penalty for missing a shot is a loss of average DPS.

 

Har

I wish I had taken logs of this, but I did a non-heroic Halls of Lightning this morning. We only took out General Bjarngrim and Volkhan, but as a level 77 hunter with 50 hit rating and 3/3 Focused Aim, I missed 2 autoshots and 2 steadies, leading to an infinitesimally smaller miss rate than should be expected giving my gear and level.

Has anyone else noticed that they are not missing when they should be? I'm going to try to get a log of this and post the WWS of it.

 

Esoth

2/3 Focused Aim is wrong; it should be 229.5299

 

Har

You know what? I remember you catching this in the other thread now that you mention it. I've fixed the first post, and hopefully that will be the last time that typo is perpetuated

 

Iru

This post from the spreadsheet thread seems appropriate to mention here:

 

kr1305

I'll also mention that the FA debate is far from over. I did a little testing on my own, no screenshots, and found that my pet's hit seemed to be very similiar. I only did around 150 attacks, so my tests can't really be used. Just making sure people don't read that as testament, no one is sure as of yet.

 

◊ arison

The easiest way to determine if FA helps pet hit or not is get just over 6% worth of hit from items and send your pet to attack a dummy for 10+ minutes. Do this without FA and then with 3/3 FA. If your pet gets *any* non-dodge/block/immune misses, FA isn't affecting him. To get an accurate percent measurement of actual pet miss chance, you would need tens of thousands of attacks, but to tell the difference between "can never miss" and "can miss 2-3% of the time" you only need a few thousand, which would determine if FA does or doesn't affect your pet.

As a point of reference, for 1,000 attacks with a 99% hit rate, the chance of not missing is .004%. With a 98% hit rate, the chance of not missing 1,000 attacks is 0.0000001683%. For a sample of just 150 attacks, though, the numbers are 22% and 4.8% respectively -- in other words, 150 is absolutely nowhere near close enough of a sample size to determine anything.

I'll conduct the test and settle it once and for all. Others doing the same would be good as well.

 

Osse

There's no need for that Arison as I forgot to mention that on the 9.06% hit screenshot I have 0/3 FA as I had just respecced.

 

◊ arison

Cool, then I think we can state pretty much as fact that, in 3.0.3, FA does not affect pet hit. I think the safe rule is, if it shows up on your character sheet, it affects your pet (such as elixirs, food, etc). In other words, your pet's base hit % is your hit %. Since Heroic Presence (Draenei aura) doesn't show on your character sheet, your pet doesn't benefit from your receiving it, but it does benefit itself since the aura includes it (specifically, your pet doesn't "double dip" and get 2% hit from the aura).

 

Niouk

Hit rating needed seems to be 8% now.

http://ordure2000.free.fr/hitcap.jpg
(165 (5.03%) hit + 3/3 FA, vs. lvl83 training dummy)

 

Lerastes

I can confirm this. I did some tests earlier. I fired about 3000 shots with 8.51% hit rating (then WoW crashed, boo ) and had no misses on me or my pet. No FA. Then I took off a ring, went down to 7.62% hit, and had a 0.3% miss rate. Here's screenshots.

ImageShack - Image Hosting :: hittestmeff9.jpg
ImageShack - Image Hosting :: hittestpetpw9.jpg

 

Asaki

Did you do those tests on a boss target dummy? Because if enough hit rating can easily be acquired by gear, the talent is basically useless unless you want it to prevent the casting pushback.

 

Lerastes

Yes, it was on the heroic target dummy. I was testing to make sure the hit cap is 8%. In the case of the target dummy, which may be an inherent bug with it, it's true.

 

Osse

I did Malygos and almost full Naxxramas with 8.47% hit yesterday and didn't miss once.

 

Cranch

I've been wondering about this myself. Here's a Wow Web Stats from an Instructor run I did yesterday. No misses. I had 81 hit rating at the time, 3% from talents, and 1% from the Draenei racial. That's 6.47% hit with no misses.

 

Osse

I think the sweetspot is somewhere between 7 and 8% hit with 0/3 FA. BM specced hunters might prefer a number closer to 8 as I think pets still have 9% hit cap. However, with 7.49% hit my pet missed very rarely (3-5 total attacks per boss). I could've gotten lucky hence it'd be nice if other people tried running through instances with different amount of hit to get a bit better "sample" of this.

 

Healranktwo

Could we move this thread to a place that will garner more views from other classes? If the cap really is 8% now, this will benefit almost every class greatly. Would love to see many other tests done besides hunters.

Also, i'm an arms war, and I was on the heroic dummy for about 3 hours beating away (most of it afk) with about 8.01% hit. Never saw a miss, and I saw plenty of dodges with 5.5% expertise.

 

Alex234

So as hit cap now is 8% seems (if i have 3\3 FA and dranaei in party) - i need just 4% hit or 132 in numbers?

 

Iru

Except that FA doesn't affect pets so its still better to explicitly gear the necessary hit.

 

Alex234

Thx !
Last question then -- is it bug or not, that FA doesn't affect pets ? May be someone asked GM about this?

 

sihyunie

I'll add some more math to this.
I'm using one of the earlier screenshot showing that FA doesn't affect the pet.
In that screen shot, pet missed 68 out of 4160 attacks when the hunter had 6.13% hit.
Using Z test, I get z score of -4.77.
What this means is that the observed event is 4.77 standard deviation below the norm (in this case the assumed 9% hit cap), which basically means it's is extremely unlikely (~0.0001%) for this to happen, i.e. the assumption was wrong.
When the same test is done w/ 8% hit cap as assumption, z score is -1.12, which has about 86.86% chance of occurring.

Another support would be, there is a screenshot with ~8% hit and 1500 shots and not missing any.
The probability of this happening (assuming 9% hit cap) is <3*10^-7 (or < 0.00003%).

So I think it's safe to assume that the hit cap is 8%.

 

Alex234

Update :
Asked GM about FA and pet - he said that everything work correctly.
So as FA working correctly -- seems (for me) there is no point to waste 3 talents in FA as BM making almost half of all damage by pet.

 

wl04

Did full Naxx-25 with hit rating 266 (~8.11%) at most boss encounters had hit lower than stated before because some items were changed. Actually i have a fealing that hit rating is currently very overvalued. Even when i've started with 142 hit rating (Sunwell gear) i didnt have much misses. According to the the spreadshit 1 hit rating is the 2nd best stat per item budget and in case of raw dps after Int. Here is my Pawn string generated by the latest version of spreadshit. This is with 266 hit rating plus 1/3 FA just too make me hitcapped:
So in my opinion hit is overvalued while other stats undervalued.

 

Shaâden

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/2577/hit8pv0.jpg

6.07% hit on stuff + 2% from talents = 8.07% hit.

3.000 auto-shots: 0 miss (I should stastically have got an average of 28 miss if hit cap was 9%)


Note: the miss rate of my pet on more than 3.000 auto-attacks really low also: 2.0 %



Naxx25 yesterdy:
Wow Web Stats

Fights against bosses only, no draenei aura, I got 7.76% hit (I removed some hit stuff in order to check this).

Exactly 1500 shoots: 4 misses. That's 0.27% miss rate.

 

dssurge

Best guess:
WWS lumps together parry, dodge and miss so your pets inherent dodge rate + miss rate is being summed as the total miss rate.

Patchwerk pet data -> Wow Web Stats

~6% innate dodge + 2.24% from miss rate - 2.5% from 2/2 Animal Handler = ~5.7, your pets miss rate for Swing (roughly 300 attacks) was 5.8%. Didn't take the time to look up your talent spec, but even with 1/2 animal handler, it's still a plausible reason for the miss rate.

I would say this further indicates both the 8% hit cap and FA not being included in hit rating calculations for pets.