Kharthus

Has anyone tested FA on the PTR to see if they fixed it so it transfers to our pets? Or reported it as a bug on the PTR (assuming it is a bug)?

 

Nooska

@Mattaos

A Draenei Shaman ?

I get the draenei, but do shaman boost our hit somehow (have I missed a buff completely?)

Apart from that, I personally find it easier to work with the rating than the % - especially as BM I want to be +1 rating a lot more than I want to be at -1 rating due to the way hit transfers to the pet. I find it a lot easier especially due to the different amounts of hit I can play with; 12 rating for boots (icewalker), 16 rating for sockets, 20 for hand enchant and so on - the difference in rating for the various ways to combine it make it easier for me to just keep track of the number 263 )

 

Sylvand

I didn't see anything like this mentioned in the patch notes, so I don't see how it could be a PTR bug. It's been known on live for quite a while, and as far as I know they don't consider it a bug at all.

 

alienangel

The draenei hit aura was merged into a single "1% hit to everything" aura quite a while back (3.0 I believe), not more spell hit from some draenei and physical hit from others.

 

Hunteralex

Hello, I was raiding twenty-five man naxxramas. We had just killed Sapphiron, so I had opened up my Recount. I had switched out my [Cloak of Mastery], for [Aged Winter Cloak]. This made a difference of +21 hit. That is going to bring it down from 9%+ hit, to 8.51% hit. Yet many say that 9% is required to never miss a raid boss. I have the question of was this pure luck? I believe it wasn't luck because I took many shots. Reply back with comments and possibly more questions.

Thank you.

 

Iru

The first post in this thread will answer your question

 

Ketari

I don't believe that transfers to the pet, though. At least, it didn't in 2.x.. hmm. Anyone tested it?

 

KraxisSingular

Back then no Hit transfered to the pet... The big question is if the pet gain our Ranged Hit or our Melee Hit, as that can have an impact on this.

 

Bellin

It is better to use +crit than only +hit scope because in case you use hit scope you trade 40 crit for 30 hit while with regemming you can trade 1 for 1.

 

Selmarix

You would not trade the 30 hit on gems for 30 crit but instead for 30 agility which is usually better for survival than 40 crit.

 

Nooska

This is a thread about hit rating, not survival spec - so the correct comparison would be hit for crit as thats whats being traded on the ranged enchant.

You are of course correct that enchanting ranged for hit frees up enchants or gems that can be used for a better stat - ap/agi for example, but it is still an ineffective way of doing it because you loose 10 'points' of crit = 10 points of agi or 20 ap in the budget scheme.

30 hit would free up 2 gemslots worth of hit at most - 16 hit on gems mens you have to be 2 points or more over the cap for it to free 2 slots; so you would be trading 40 crit for 32 agi / 64 ap at most - but more likely you would still have to have a 50/50 gem with hit, so you would trade 40 crit for 24 agi / 48 ap.

Edit: Added a paragraph about the real changes and not just budget wise

 

dssurge

Assuming you require 2 hit gems to hit cap, and you are 2 or more rating over the hit cap, the argument actually becomes 32 agi vs. 40 crit, in which case AGI wins by a landslide based on the spreadsheet numbers for SV Hunters. For all other specs it breaks even.

This is using the pawn values determined by the BiS SV set, but agility literally pulls over 11 points ahead, so I can see it being plausible for quite a good deal less gear.

 

Monkeysnax

So every time I get new gear I feel like I'm doing the "hit" dance all over again. Right now with the gear I have I'm at 262, should I worry about that last point? I realize that the 7.99% chance only translates to 7.00% to my pet which seems enough of a reason to look at re-gemming / re-enchanting to get back over the cap. In the process of thinking through this I had a thought that what if hit buff food (like Worg Tartare) transferred to my pet? With this food particularly I can see that some of the stamina portion transfers to my pet but was unsure about the hit portion. I gave the search function an attempt before I posted this however my lack of experience with it led to null results. Thanks!


Armory page if it helps:

The World of Warcraft Armory

 

Rosamonde

To the best of my knowledge, anything that boosts the hit rating on your character sheet (and that would include hit food) will transfer to your pet. The only hit that does not transfer to your pet is any you get from the talent Focused Aim, which does not show on your character sheet.

Cave canum...

Florimel (hunter) / Argent Dawn
Rosamonde (mage) / Argent Dawn
Lisieau (priest) / Argent Dawn

 

Bovey

You should absolutely worry about that last point. Bringing your pet up a full percentage point in hit is more bang for the buck than you will get from the same amount of any other stat. The buff food will work for that purpose, but is probably not your best option. Since you only need +1 to your hit rating to reach the cap, all the rest of the +hit from your food would be wasted. I would suggest replacing the orange gem in your helm with the +8 agi / +8 hit gem to get you over the cap (with as little wasted +hit as possible) and go with +agi food.


It really doesn't since your armory link is already included with your profile info on every post.

Edited for spelling

 

silmarieni

Hello,

I am quite confused.

I am writing an article on hit rating for my guild, but basically I know only the case of the spellcasters very well.

17% is the hit cap for lvl 83 boss.
With 3% buffs from raid and 1% from Dranei, this leaves 13% hit cap before talents.

Here you are mentioning 8% for hunters.

How did we go from 13% to 8%?
Is this something special with hunters? Or all physical attack classes?
Or is the 17% hit cap only true for spellcasters?

 

Klingo

17% is ony true for real spellcasters as you call them.

the ranged attacks from hunter have a 95% hit-chance against an enemy with the same level.
since wotlk we only need 8% against lvl 83, before it was 9%

 

alarge

There are two different systems at play: physical hit and spell hit.

Against (level 83 equivalent) bosses, the base chance to miss for physical hit is 8%. For spell hit, it is 17%.

Hit rating applies to both systems, but ratings convert to %'s at different rates. Specifically, 32.79 hit rating gives you 1% of physical hit while it only takes 26.23 hit rating to achieve 1% of spell hit.

The particular system that is employed in a situation depends mostly upon the type of ability being used. In addition to the obvious attacks (e.g., shadow bolts use spell hit, melee and ranged physical attacks use physical hit), there are a number of less obvious "crossover" situations. For example, there are a number of "spell-like" attacks made by physical dps classes that clearly use the physical hit system (e.g., Explosive Shot). There are also some abilities used by physical dps classes that might use spell hit (if anyone knows for sure on these, I'd like to hear):

* Rogue poisons
* Feign death
* Taunt
* DK diseases
* Hunter pet spell abilities

Suppose that FD, for example, did use spell hit (and not some other unrelated mechanic). A hunter with 263 hit rating would have 10% spell hit, so should expect to get an FD resist about 7% of the time against bosses. Anecdotally, that seems to agree with what I actually see in-game.

 

Bonestorm

My hunter is hit capped, and I see occasional resists on feign death, so I would assume it's still using spell hit. I would guess traps are still in the same boat if they never fixed FD.

 

Takeaim

I dunno about Feign death, but traps have to be on spell hit. I always get freezing trap resists with the talents for it and 5% hit in pvp

 

manucv7

Quick question about hit rating.

I'm using Sharada's spreadsheet to evaluate my theoritical dps. Right now, I'm at 268 hit rating and 5544.87 dps. I'm using a [Glinting Monarch Topaz] gem to stay above the 263 cap.
Now, in the spreadsheet, when I replace this gem with a +16agi, my hit rating drops to 260 and yet I gain 6.51 dps...

I don't really understand how being under the hit cap (not by much but still), having my pet loose 1% hit is compensated by a +8 agility increase. If anyone has an answer, i'll be quite interested.

Edit @Fierra : thank you

 

Fierra

1) You're SV; your pet is a relatively small amount of your dps, and the additional agility provides more dps than that lost by the pet.

2) Keep in mind, Hit CAN be out-ranked by Agility, especially for SV hunters, but it simply isn't worth it to be able to miss on our primary shots than to have them be a little more powerful. 100% hit should be maintained, even if the spreadsheet says it's a dps increase otherwise.

 

Difool

Assuming Marcos weren't disabled when the calculation was made, and assuming that with averaging, we can do more damage with more AGI and a chance to miss, then I'll have to provide an alternate opinion.

When on average you can do more damage, then you should go with that spec/itemization. Stating that variability (in this case a chance to miss) somehow bends the rules of averages is simply not correct, if the goal is to optimize max dps.

To put that in the simplest of math:
1.011 * 99% > 1.0 * 100% The fact that you can miss sometimes in the left side should not sway you.

If the goal is to never have bad dps at any time, at the cost of avarage max dps, then you really need to look at all RNG-based abilities and trinkets. Not just %hit.

 

Nooska

However it is correct when raking into account that 1 missed high damage shot can severely hurt your dps compared to usually hitting a bit harder with it.

As we have seen in the "Focused aim rdeucing crit" tests, even in blocks of 1k shots RNG varies a lot from what we are supposed to see - and a boss fight is nowhere near 1k shots given even higher variations.
The spreadsheet averages out, it doesn't do a test of X shots and average them out, it averages out so all effects affect all things equally - basically, if you have 30% crit it deals 130% damage for each autoshot you can get off (modifiers apply from talents etc) because that is the averaged out effect.

I would not want to explain to a raid leader why we didn't get boss X down within timeframe Y (be that enrage , wipe or set time) because I missed on my Explosive shot, killshot or whatever else I missed on.
Also I would not accept such an explanation from any raider (be that hunter or otherwise) if I question them on why they were low on dps - crit swings is okay, but misses are not when staying capped is "as easy" as it is.

Being an officer I uckily will never be in situation number one (well I won't go below cap either so that saves it for me too), and being the dps officer in particular I am in a situation where number 2 would make me very unhappy with a dps'ers choices.

In a raiding environment consistent is better than higher most of the time and lower the rest - be that 20%, 10% or 1%.

 

Difool

It doesn't matter how big the variability is, or even that the variability might be larger than expected. Because the range of damage is applied to both sides of the equation, the conclusion holds regardless. It can only be one of two things. One (1) - that the average dps over ISN'T higher after all, or Two (2) - that there are OTHER considerations than max damage, like consistent damage.

You are clearly stating the latter, and that is fine. But for someone that cares about doing the most damage, then
under these suggested circumstances they will do more damage over more time than someone that maxes crit. And honestly, in a raid of 25 people, with the number of discrete events, the law of averages does apply. The chances that you will miss that massive 20K crit, without all the other random events across all raid members evening this out is really very small. I assert a good raid leader should be more concerned with the 1 in 10 RNG factors and not the 1 in 10,000

I still can't wait to get conformation on the orriginal hypothesis (heading home now), but call a spade a spade. If this pans out then telling people not to do it to protect their dps is wrong. Telling them not to do it to increase consistency is an opinion that might be valid, but some regressions really need to be run even to back that up. At the moment I believe it has as much statistical relevance as telling people not to use Darkmoon: Greatness, because you might hit a dry spell on a short fight.