kbranch

I posted about a 9 hour test on the heroic dummy in the druid forums a few days ago that agrees with the 8% miss chance, so it's not just hunters (link). 35,799 hits, 11.4% parry, 4% dodge, and 8.2% miss with no gear on and 2.5% expertise from talents.

 

Æthien

On the subject of hit and expertise, I did a small test (2000 attacks) for my pet.
As I remember seeing someone here ask about expertise, and if it had any effect on pets.
I happened to get a ring with 33 expertise rating (4 expertise) so here's the screenshot:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...208_152040.jpg

2/2 Animal Handler, 4 expertise. --> 3.8% dodge
1/3 Careful Aim, 195 hit (5.95%+1% from CA). -->2.9% miss.
On the heroic training dummy in IF.

The hit surprised me, as with close to 6% hit I expected my pet to miss 2%, not 3.
I can't say anything about expertise as I have no clue how much dodge a boss has/is supposed to have.

edit: on second thought, this might have been better placed in the pet thread.

 

sihyunie

It was stated in either in this post, or somewhere else, but Careful Aim hit doesn't appear to transfer to pet.
So you should expect about 3% hit (but that's really only if you assume 9% hit cap, which is in question right now as well.)

 

Æthien

From the post above me, and the many other posts people have made around here regarding this topic, I by now fully expected 8% to be the hitcap, but apparently this does not go for pets.

 

Alex234

Pets also have 8% hitcap, tested on heroic dummy in IF.
Recount showed only small amount of dodges.

 

Æthien

screenshot please, as my pet showed 3% miss with 5.95% +hit.

 

Har

I've updated the first post in this thread to reflect this. I believe it's a bug and that it is supposed to be transferred to the pet.

 

Deathstalkr

Just a thought--
Could it be that there is a mechanic with in the game that is messed up allowing the Dranaei Racial talent of 1%HR be given to all characters? Lowering the HR from 9% to 8%. Thus, this racial doesn't effect pets to begin with still making their HR 9%.

 

Iru

That would be a very weird affect as my pet certainly gets an aura from my dranei hunter's racial. So all players, my pet but no othr pets in the game? Occam's razor says its more likely that blizzard made a typo and haven't noticed.

 

Alex234

Sorry, didn't make it
But, as you have just 5,95% +hit -- pet surely will miss anyway because you have no hit cap.

Iru
Any pet is affected by other player's dranei aura.

 

Mattaos

Understand something regarding this (extremely) recent observation of hit rating that tools like the spreadsheet are still tuned to assume the hit cap is 9%, so obviously it will value hit until capped if you are under that 9% threshold. This is new information still being confirmed and the spreadsheet will be updated accordingly once there is a definitive answer.

It appears that the 8% hit cap theory is coming closer to fruition and the available tools we have to use will adjust soon. In the meantime, just keep in the back of your mind that 9% (apparently) is an overkill and supplement other stats (i.e. crit, AP, etc...) even if the spreadsheet indicates a piece of gear with hit is a bigger upgrade over another.

Also, keep in mind that the spreadsheet is defaulted to reflect a 15 min. fight duration which will always value any stat or talent that increases mana and replenishment. Stats such as crit and AP are still extremely valuable under current raid conditions where a boss encounter might last 5 min.

 

Soulcow

Are you sure you had 8% hit or you were shooting at the heroic dummy?

Because I just did a test on the OG test dummy with 262 (7,99%) hit with 71 unused talents and my results are different.
I didn't miss a single shot in 2156 shots. So in agreement with the possible 8% hitcap.
But my pet missed 23 auto attacks in a total of 2031 auto attacks. That is 1.1%. And for claw my pet missed 3 times in 439 claws which is 0.7%.

So based on these data I would say pets still have a 9% hitcap.

Screenshot with the recount screens of my test.

 

Alex234

Absolutely ! Sad, that i didnt any screenshoot to proof

Ill try to make new test today\tommorow and ill make screenshot this time.
May be my test was too little in time.

 

Mattaos

EDIT: Answered my own question after taking the time to actually look over the screenshot.

 

kbranch

The recount results in his screenshot separate out parries, dodges, and misses. The breakdown for melee was 1.1% miss, 7.3% dodge, and .1% parry.

 

wen_amarth

Hi,

I am sorry if this shouldn't be here, but it isn't very clear to me, what's the math behind how much hit rating is needed so we don't miss that much.
What I am not sure, is how to calculate how much hit rating I need given this 2 situations:
1_ Draenei hunter with 3/3 FA
2_ Draenei hunter with 0/3 FA

Thank you and sorry again if this was not the right place to ask about this.

**** Sorry found my answer in another post, but can't erase this one! ****

 

Æthien

that wasn;t really my point.
At 5.95%+hit with an 8% hitcap, getting 3% miss in 2000 attacks seems out of proportion to me.

 

Soulcow

Ye that is without Animal Handler.

I just went Naxx 25 and I got a hit upgrade without time to socket back, but with 8.84% hit my pet didn't miss on Saphirion and Kel'Thuzad. Could be lucky, but I dunno.

 

flimflam

My guild has 25m raid(s) scheduled tonight, if im able to get in ill do my best to combat log the entire evening and then upload it to WWS.

I have 189 HR 5.76% and ill use 2 FA for 7.76%. I'll be using this build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

(Or i could use 165 HR 5.03% and 3 FA)

 

Iru

I'm aware of that. I was commenting on Deathstalkr's suggestion that 8% hit was somehow a realm wide dranei aura effect.

 

Alex234

As i promised - i maked new test on heroic dummy in IF.
I have 263 hit rating, FA 0\3
I have maded 2200 autoshots and pet all this time was attacking heroic dummy too.
Both of us never missed.

P.S. As im from Rus Realm - so i also have Rus version of WoW and Recount. But Dodge, parry and misses somehow haven't translated by author of the Recount addon anyway

http://img16.imagevenue.com/img.php?..._122_739lo.jpg -- Thats my autoshots
http://img137.imagevenue.com/img.php..._122_842lo.jpg -- pet's white attack
http://img224.imagevenue.com/img.php..._122_430lo.jpg -- pet's Claw ability
http://img245.imagevenue.com/img.php...4_122_82lo.jpg -- pet's Rake ability (dot ticking here)
http://img24.imagevenue.com/img.php?...122_1116lo.jpg -- pet's Rake ability

So, seems pet hit cap is also 8% as i said before.

 

Soulcow

We get different results then. The only 2 differences is that you used the IF dummy and I used the OG dummy and that you had 1 hit more. But statisticly that 1 hit difference shouldn't give that many pet misses, although I'm not the best on statistics.

I will try tomorrow if I can get 263 or close to that in hit rating and do a test again.

 

sihyunie

So it seems we have 2 conflicting data.
I'll once again do some math thingies with them.
The question here would be which is more unlikely (or to translate to some stat terms, which is more standard deviation away from the norm).
First, getting 58 misses out of 2000 attacks with 5.95% hit, assuming 8% hit, has z score of 2.68.
Second, getting 0 misses out of 6243 attacks (3794 melee + 2071 claws + 378 rakes) with 8.02% hit, assuming 9% hit, has z score of -7.86.
Those z scores tells you how many standard deviation away from norm these tests are, i.e. farther away from norm they are, less likely they will occur, thus less likely the assumption is correct. Now, both these tests results are very unlikely to happen given each assumptions. Now, second test gave more unlikely result, so 9% hit cap assumption is more likely to be the wrong assumption.
Since there is too much data supporting 8% hit cap (all those WWS runs with no misses while not at 9% gives extremely small chance that 9% is hit cap), I'll just go with that for now, but these two tests supporting 9% hit cap is quite interesting (read statistical anomaly). 2.68 standard deviation away has less than 1% probability, but it's still far more likely to happen compared to other tests.
Only real conclusive result would be if someone missed with over 8% hit, but since that hasn't happened yet, so rest of data can only interpreted by some probability calculations.

Another thing would be if certain servers are bugged and not calculating hit chance correctly (or in this case, only few of them calculating correctly at 9%). This would account for these different test results with such unlikeliness.

 

Æthien

I will be testing more tomorrow, as my pet got 7% miss with 0% hit from gear and 1/3 FA, roughly 6000 attacks.
The same happened to me, as expected, over roughly 3200 attacks.
I think that somehow, our hit from gear is overwriting hit from FA for our pets.
(think the screenshots are in the pet thread)

So more on that tomorrow, I'll be shooting thousands of arrows with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8% hit on gear.
To get somewhat more conclusive data.
I'll probably also send in a ticket to ask blizz about this and to kill time :P

 

Alex234

I've already wrote that FA does not transfer to the pet.
Ive wrote ticket in game and GM said that there is no any bug, talent(FA) work as it must.
So, if its truth (i mean GM really knows how should work this talent and how it working now) - there is no point to spend 3 points in this talent as pet give us almost half of our damage (I mean Beast Master of course).