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12/02/08, 10:16 AM
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#26
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Shadowsong
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I posted about a 9 hour test on the heroic dummy in the druid forums a few days ago that agrees with the 8% miss chance, so it's not just hunters ( link). 35,799 hits, 11.4% parry, 4% dodge, and 8.2% miss with no gear on and 2.5% expertise from talents.
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12/02/08, 10:57 AM
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#27
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Piston Honda
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On the subject of hit and expertise, I did a small test (2000 attacks) for my pet.
As I remember seeing someone here ask about expertise, and if it had any effect on pets.
I happened to get a ring with 33 expertise rating (4 expertise) so here's the screenshot:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...208_152040.jpg
2/2 Animal Handler, 4 expertise. --> 3.8% dodge
1/3 Careful Aim, 195 hit (5.95%+1% from CA). -->2.9% miss.
On the heroic training dummy in IF.
The hit surprised me, as with close to 6% hit I expected my pet to miss 2%, not 3.
I can't say anything about expertise as I have no clue how much dodge a boss has/is supposed to have.
edit: on second thought, this might have been better placed in the pet thread.
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12/02/08, 11:05 AM
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#28
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Piston Honda
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It was stated in either in this post, or somewhere else, but Careful Aim hit doesn't appear to transfer to pet.
So you should expect about 3% hit (but that's really only if you assume 9% hit cap, which is in question right now as well.)
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12/02/08, 11:31 AM
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#29
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Piston Honda
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From the post above me, and the many other posts people have made around here regarding this topic, I by now fully expected 8% to be the hitcap, but apparently this does not go for pets.
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12/02/08, 11:38 AM
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#30
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Hunter
Гордунни (EU)
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Pets also have 8% hitcap, tested on heroic dummy in IF.
Recount showed only small amount of dodges.
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12/02/08, 11:44 AM
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#31
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Piston Honda
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screenshot please, as my pet showed 3% miss with 5.95% +hit.
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12/02/08, 12:04 PM
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#32
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by sihyunie
It was stated in either in this post, or somewhere else, but Careful Aim hit doesn't appear to transfer to pet.
So you should expect about 3% hit (but that's really only if you assume 9% hit cap, which is in question right now as well.)
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I've updated the first post in this thread to reflect this. I believe it's a bug and that it is supposed to be transferred to the pet.
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12/02/08, 12:39 PM
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#33
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Hunter
Dragonmaw
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Just a thought--
Could it be that there is a mechanic with in the game that is messed up allowing the Dranaei Racial talent of 1%HR be given to all characters? Lowering the HR from 9% to 8%. Thus, this racial doesn't effect pets to begin with still making their HR 9%.
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12/02/08, 12:44 PM
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#34
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Don Flamenco
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That would be a very weird affect as my pet certainly gets an aura from my dranei hunter's racial. So all players, my pet but no othr pets in the game? Occam's razor says its more likely that blizzard made a typo and haven't noticed.
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12/02/08, 1:17 PM
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#35
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Hunter
Гордунни (EU)
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Originally Posted by Æthien
screenshot please, as my pet showed 3% miss with 5.95% +hit.
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Sorry, didn't make it 
But, as you have just 5,95% +hit -- pet surely will miss anyway because you have no hit cap.
Iru
Any pet is affected by other player's dranei aura.
Last edited by Relwin : 12/02/08 at 5:12 PM.
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12/02/08, 1:46 PM
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#36
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by wl04
Did full Naxx-25 with hit rating 266 (~8.11%) at most boss encounters had hit lower than stated before because some items were changed. Actually i have a fealing that hit rating is currently very overvalued. Even when i've started with 142 hit rating (Sunwell gear) i didnt have much misses. According to the the spreadshit 1 hit rating is the 2nd best stat per item budget and in case of raw dps after Int. Here is my Pawn string generated by the latest version of spreadshit. This is with 266 hit rating plus 1/3 FA just too make me hitcapped:
So in my opinion hit is overvalued while other stats undervalued.
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Understand something regarding this (extremely) recent observation of hit rating that tools like the spreadsheet are still tuned to assume the hit cap is 9%, so obviously it will value hit until capped if you are under that 9% threshold. This is new information still being confirmed and the spreadsheet will be updated accordingly once there is a definitive answer.
It appears that the 8% hit cap theory is coming closer to fruition and the available tools we have to use will adjust soon. In the meantime, just keep in the back of your mind that 9% (apparently) is an overkill and supplement other stats (i.e. crit, AP, etc...) even if the spreadsheet indicates a piece of gear with hit is a bigger upgrade over another.
Also, keep in mind that the spreadsheet is defaulted to reflect a 15 min. fight duration which will always value any stat or talent that increases mana and replenishment. Stats such as crit and AP are still extremely valuable under current raid conditions where a boss encounter might last 5 min.
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12/02/08, 1:50 PM
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#37
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Von Kaiser
Tauren Hunter
Kazzak (EU)
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Originally Posted by Alex234
Pets also have 8% hitcap, tested on heroic dummy in IF.
Recount showed only small amount of dodges.
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Are you sure you had 8% hit or you were shooting at the heroic dummy?
Because I just did a test on the OG test dummy with 262 (7,99%) hit with 71 unused talents and my results are different.
I didn't miss a single shot in 2156 shots. So in agreement with the possible 8% hitcap.
But my pet missed 23 auto attacks in a total of 2031 auto attacks. That is 1.1%. And for claw my pet missed 3 times in 439 claws which is 0.7%.
So based on these data I would say pets still have a 9% hitcap.
Screenshot with the recount screens of my test.
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12/02/08, 2:17 PM
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#38
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Hunter
Гордунни (EU)
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Originally Posted by Soulcow
Are you sure you had 8% hit or you were shooting at the heroic dummy?
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Absolutely ! Sad, that i didnt any screenshoot to proof
Because I just did a test on the OG test dummy with 262 (7,99%) hit with 71 unused talents and my results are different.
I didn't miss a single shot in 2156 shots. So in agreement with the possible 8% hitcap.
But my pet missed 23 auto attacks in a total of 2031 auto attacks. That is 1.1%. And for claw my pet missed 3 times in 439 claws which is 0.7%.
So based on these data I would say pets still have a 9% hitcap.
Screenshot with the recount screens of my test.
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Ill try to make new test today\tommorow and ill make screenshot this time.
May be my test was too little in time.
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12/02/08, 2:20 PM
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#39
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Soulcow
Are you sure you had 8% hit or you were shooting at the heroic dummy?
Because I just did a test on the OG test dummy with 262 (7,99%) hit with 71 unused talents and my results are different.
I didn't miss a single shot in 2156 shots. So in agreement with the possible 8% hitcap.
But my pet missed 23 auto attacks in a total of 2031 auto attacks. That is 1.1%. And for claw my pet missed 3 times in 439 claws which is 0.7%.
So based on these data I would say pets still have a 9% hitcap.
Screenshot with the recount screens of my test.
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EDIT: Answered my own question after taking the time to actually look over the screenshot.
Last edited by Mattaos : 12/02/08 at 2:58 PM.
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12/02/08, 2:35 PM
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#40
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Shadowsong
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Originally Posted by Mattaos
Were those misses (1.1%) true "misses"? Or, was your source (Recount or WWS?) lumping in dodges as misses also? If you were striped of your talents that would be a lack of 10 expertise from Animal Handler.
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The recount results in his screenshot separate out parries, dodges, and misses. The breakdown for melee was 1.1% miss, 7.3% dodge, and .1% parry.
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12/02/08, 3:13 PM
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#41
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Glass Joe
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Hi,
I am sorry if this shouldn't be here, but it isn't very clear to me, what's the math behind how much hit rating is needed so we don't miss that much.
What I am not sure, is how to calculate how much hit rating I need given this 2 situations:
1_ Draenei hunter with 3/3 FA
2_ Draenei hunter with 0/3 FA
Thank you and sorry again if this was not the right place to ask about this.
**** Sorry found my answer in another post, but can't erase this one! ****
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12/02/08, 3:20 PM
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#42
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Alex234
Sorry, didn't make it 
But, as you have just 5,95% +hit -- pet surely will miss anyway because you have no hit cap.
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that wasn;t really my point.
At 5.95%+hit with an 8% hitcap, getting 3% miss in 2000 attacks seems out of proportion to me.
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12/02/08, 4:14 PM
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#43
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Von Kaiser
Tauren Hunter
Kazzak (EU)
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Originally Posted by kbranch
The recount results in his screenshot separate out parries, dodges, and misses. The breakdown for melee was 1.1% miss, 7.3% dodge, and .1% parry.
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Ye that is without Animal Handler.
I just went Naxx 25 and I got a hit upgrade without time to socket back, but with 8.84% hit my pet didn't miss on Saphirion and Kel'Thuzad. Could be lucky, but I dunno.
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12/02/08, 4:22 PM
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#44
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Von Kaiser
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My guild has 25m raid(s) scheduled tonight, if im able to get in ill do my best to combat log the entire evening and then upload it to WWS.
I have 189 HR 5.76% and ill use 2 FA for 7.76%. I'll be using this build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
(Or i could use 165 HR 5.03% and 3 FA)
Last edited by flimflam : 12/02/08 at 4:35 PM.
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12/02/08, 4:41 PM
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#45
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Alex234
Iru
Any pet is affected by other player's dranei aura.
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I'm aware of that. I was commenting on Deathstalkr's suggestion that 8% hit was somehow a realm wide dranei aura effect.
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12/02/08, 7:45 PM
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#47
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Von Kaiser
Tauren Hunter
Kazzak (EU)
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Originally Posted by Alex234
So, seems pet hit cap is also 8% as i said before.
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We get different results then. The only 2 differences is that you used the IF dummy and I used the OG dummy and that you had 1 hit more. But statisticly that 1 hit difference shouldn't give that many pet misses, although I'm not the best on statistics.
I will try tomorrow if I can get 263 or close to that in hit rating and do a test again.
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12/02/08, 8:26 PM
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#48
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Piston Honda
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So it seems we have 2 conflicting data.
I'll once again do some math thingies with them.
The question here would be which is more unlikely (or to translate to some stat terms, which is more standard deviation away from the norm).
First, getting 58 misses out of 2000 attacks with 5.95% hit, assuming 8% hit, has z score of 2.68.
Second, getting 0 misses out of 6243 attacks (3794 melee + 2071 claws + 378 rakes) with 8.02% hit, assuming 9% hit, has z score of -7.86.
Those z scores tells you how many standard deviation away from norm these tests are, i.e. farther away from norm they are, less likely they will occur, thus less likely the assumption is correct. Now, both these tests results are very unlikely to happen given each assumptions. Now, second test gave more unlikely result, so 9% hit cap assumption is more likely to be the wrong assumption.
Since there is too much data supporting 8% hit cap (all those WWS runs with no misses while not at 9% gives extremely small chance that 9% is hit cap), I'll just go with that for now, but these two tests supporting 9% hit cap is quite interesting (read statistical anomaly). 2.68 standard deviation away has less than 1% probability, but it's still far more likely to happen compared to other tests.
Only real conclusive result would be if someone missed with over 8% hit, but since that hasn't happened yet, so rest of data can only interpreted by some probability calculations.
Another thing would be if certain servers are bugged and not calculating hit chance correctly (or in this case, only few of them calculating correctly at 9%). This would account for these different test results with such unlikeliness.
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12/02/08, 8:41 PM
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#49
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Piston Honda
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I will be testing more tomorrow, as my pet got 7% miss with 0% hit from gear and 1/3 FA, roughly 6000 attacks.
The same happened to me, as expected, over roughly 3200 attacks.
I think that somehow, our hit from gear is overwriting hit from FA for our pets.
(think the screenshots are in the pet thread)
So more on that tomorrow, I'll be shooting thousands of arrows with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8% hit on gear.
To get somewhat more conclusive data.
I'll probably also send in a ticket to ask blizz about this and to kill time :P
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12/02/08, 9:12 PM
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#50
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Hunter
Гордунни (EU)
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I've already wrote that FA does not transfer to the pet.
Ive wrote ticket in game and GM said that there is no any bug, talent(FA) work as it must.
So, if its truth (i mean GM really knows how should work this talent and how it working now  ) - there is no point to spend 3 points in this talent as pet give us almost half of our damage (I mean Beast Master of course).
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