Hit rating - Page 2

Osse · 12/01/08, 1:46 PM

I think the sweetspot is somewhere between 7 and 8% hit with 0/3 FA. BM specced hunters might prefer a number closer to 8 as I think pets still have 9% hit cap. However, with 7.49% hit my pet missed very rarely (3-5 total attacks per boss). I could've gotten lucky hence it'd be nice if other people tried running through instances with different amount of hit to get a bit better "sample" of this.

Healranktwo · 12/01/08, 3:27 PM

Could we move this thread to a place that will garner more views from other classes? If the cap really is 8% now, this will benefit almost every class greatly. Would love to see many other tests done besides hunters.

Also, i'm an arms war, and I was on the heroic dummy for about 3 hours beating away (most of it afk) with about 8.01% hit. Never saw a miss, and I saw plenty of dodges with 5.5% expertise.

Alex234 · 12/01/08, 4:59 PM

So as hit cap now is 8% seems (if i have 3\3 FA and dranaei in party) - i need just 4% hit or 132 in numbers?

Iru · 12/01/08, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by Alex234

So as hit cap now is 8% seems (if i have 3\3 FA and dranaei in party) - i need just 4% hit or 132 in numbers?

Except that FA doesn't affect pets so its still better to explicitly gear the necessary hit.

Alex234 · 12/01/08, 5:33 PM

Originally Posted by Iru

Except that FA doesn't affect pets so its still better to explicitly gear the necessary hit.

Thx !
Last question then -- is it bug or not, that FA doesn't affect pets ? May be someone asked GM about this?

sihyunie · 12/02/08, 1:20 AM

I'll add some more math to this.
I'm using one of the earlier screenshot showing that FA doesn't affect the pet.
In that screen shot, pet missed 68 out of 4160 attacks when the hunter had 6.13% hit.
Using Z test, I get z score of -4.77.
What this means is that the observed event is 4.77 standard deviation below the norm (in this case the assumed 9% hit cap), which basically means it's is extremely unlikely (~0.0001%) for this to happen, i.e. the assumption was wrong.
When the same test is done w/ 8% hit cap as assumption, z score is -1.12, which has about 86.86% chance of occurring.

Another support would be, there is a screenshot with ~8% hit and 1500 shots and not missing any.
The probability of this happening (assuming 9% hit cap) is <3*10^-7 (or < 0.00003%).

So I think it's safe to assume that the hit cap is 8%.

Alex234 · 12/02/08, 1:29 AM

Update :
Asked GM about FA and pet - he said that everything work correctly.
So as FA working correctly -- seems (for me) there is no point to waste 3 talents in FA as BM making almost half of all damage by pet.

wl04 · 12/02/08, 3:09 AM

Did full Naxx-25 with hit rating 266 (~8.11%) at most boss encounters had hit lower than stated before because some items were changed. Actually i have a fealing that hit rating is currently very overvalued. Even when i've started with 142 hit rating (Sunwell gear) i didnt have much misses. According to the the spreadshit 1 hit rating is the 2nd best stat per item budget and in case of raw dps after Int. Here is my Pawn string generated by the latest version of spreadshit. This is with 266 hit rating plus 1/3 FA just too make me hitcapped:

( Pawn: v1: "Hunter": ArmorPenetration=0,34, RedSocket=6,213, CritRating=0,255, Intellect=0,635, MetaSocket=8,155, Agility=0,388, HasteRating=0,166, BlueSocket=4,107, YellowSocket=7,213, Rap=0,248, HitRating=0,513, Ap=0,248, Mp5=0,319 )

So in my opinion hit is overvalued while other stats undervalued.

Shaâden · 12/02/08, 6:54 AM

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/2577/hit8pv0.jpg

6.07% hit on stuff + 2% from talents = 8.07% hit.

3.000 auto-shots: 0 miss (I should stastically have got an average of 28 miss if hit cap was 9%)

Note: the miss rate of my pet on more than 3.000 auto-attacks really low also: 2.0 %

Naxx25 yesterdy:
Wow Web Stats

Fights against bosses only, no draenei aura, I got 7.76% hit (I removed some hit stuff in order to check this).

Exactly 1500 shoots: 4 misses. That's 0.27% miss rate.

dssurge · 12/02/08, 7:26 AM

Originally Posted by Shaâden

Naxx25 yesterdy:
Wow Web Stats

Fights against bosses only, no draenei aura, I got 7.76% hit (I removed some hit stuff in order to check this).

Exactly 1500 shoots: 4 misses. That's 0.27% miss rate.

Note2: for my pet on the same Naxx session:
Wow Web Stats

3097 hits on bosses: 240 miss, that's 7.75% miss rate (hunter had 5.76% hit from gear and 2% form FA).

Best guess:
WWS lumps together parry, dodge and miss so your pets inherent dodge rate + miss rate is being summed as the total miss rate.

Patchwerk pet data -> Wow Web Stats

~6% innate dodge + 2.24% from miss rate - 2.5% from 2/2 Animal Handler = ~5.7, your pets miss rate for Swing (roughly 300 attacks) was 5.8%. Didn't take the time to look up your talent spec, but even with 1/2 animal handler, it's still a plausible reason for the miss rate.

I would say this further indicates both the 8% hit cap and FA not being included in hit rating calculations for pets.

kbranch · 12/02/08, 9:16 AM

I posted about a 9 hour test on the heroic dummy in the druid forums a few days ago that agrees with the 8% miss chance, so it's not just hunters (link). 35,799 hits, 11.4% parry, 4% dodge, and 8.2% miss with no gear on and 2.5% expertise from talents.

Æthien · 12/02/08, 9:57 AM

On the subject of hit and expertise, I did a small test (2000 attacks) for my pet.
As I remember seeing someone here ask about expertise, and if it had any effect on pets.
I happened to get a ring with 33 expertise rating (4 expertise) so here's the screenshot:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...208_152040.jpg

2/2 Animal Handler, 4 expertise. --> 3.8% dodge
1/3 Careful Aim, 195 hit (5.95%+1% from CA). -->2.9% miss.
On the heroic training dummy in IF.

The hit surprised me, as with close to 6% hit I expected my pet to miss 2%, not 3.
I can't say anything about expertise as I have no clue how much dodge a boss has/is supposed to have.

edit: on second thought, this might have been better placed in the pet thread.

sihyunie · 12/02/08, 10:05 AM

It was stated in either in this post, or somewhere else, but Careful Aim hit doesn't appear to transfer to pet.
So you should expect about 3% hit (but that's really only if you assume 9% hit cap, which is in question right now as well.)

Æthien · 12/02/08, 10:31 AM

From the post above me, and the many other posts people have made around here regarding this topic, I by now fully expected 8% to be the hitcap, but apparently this does not go for pets.

Alex234 · 12/02/08, 10:38 AM

Pets also have 8% hitcap, tested on heroic dummy in IF.
Recount showed only small amount of dodges.