Hit rating - Page 22

dexx · 06/09/09, 4:14 AM

Originally Posted by Xaraphyne

The agility you lose from gemming/enchanting to cap generally doesn't compare to the DPS you lose from the talent points you're not spending elsewhere. Yes, when your gear is very poor, it's not unwise; but once you have at least a bit of Naxx gear, as 95% of the hunters who come here do, it becomes a non-issue.

My hunter is in five piece T7.5. Belt, boots, and back are all Naxx25. My weapon is Final Voyage and stat stick is Wraith spear. My hit is only 132 in all this. So hit is still a big deal even in T7 gear. Putting points into FA lets me equip decent trinks (eg DMC greatness) and rings as well as letting me gem+enchant for agi.

RiceCakes · 07/08/09, 5:54 PM

Hello, first time poster, long time lurker.

Have a question regarding pet hit rating. Im way over hit cap atm, waiting for a gear swap. (288HR)

I was looking at my WWS parses for our guild and looked at my pet, who happens to have misses listed around 8% for most of the bosses.

Wow Web Stats

That should be the link for my wolf's breakdown on the report. Im very new to actually digging through wws parses, so I thought it might just be something that I'm not seeing.

It was my understanding that our pet's to hit chance was already shared. Is this not coming until next patch?

Thanks for the help and the wealth of information here.

Edit: At first I did not think it would be mislabeled dodges, however combining all of the dodges and parries seems to add up to the number of misses. Is this a common occurrence? Is this what Im seeing now?

Johrael · 07/08/09, 6:12 PM

If you click on the '+' on the top right of the Damage Out section, it will expand all the rows so you can see what the break down on your misses are. The misses given in the one liner are "All Misses" which includes dodges and parries. Looking at the pase, your pet had zero true misses, 36 parries, and 145 dodges over the report.

Hit chance sharing is on live. In 3.2 pets will get full hit/spell hit/expertise if you are hit capped.

Ossian666 · 07/29/09, 4:39 PM

I have a quick question in regards to Draenai hit and hit from talents. Is there any way that isn't being added in correctly? Last night I raided and while I was going over my WWS today I noticed 2 auto show misses and an explosive shot miss. I was wondering if maybe I should switch back up to what I was at before spec and gem/enchant wise, or if I'm possibly just being paranoid.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Basically just looknig for input on what may have happened.

Nagisamuro · 07/29/09, 5:17 PM

Using the Log Browser, I was unable to find the exact lines that detail those 3 misses. I wonder if it's not just some bug on WoL's end. Can you find the relevant combat log entries?

• VRoscioli · 07/29/09, 5:20 PM

I see them at 23:51:03, 23:52:22, and 23:54:55.

A silly question, but are you sure you were wearing all of your correct gear? (Ex, maybe you had swapped out a piece for a higher iLevel piece for Flame Leviathan, but forgot to re-equip it?)

Ossian666 · 07/30/09, 11:47 AM

No, I don't swap gear for FL...its not worth it for me bc all I do is collect Pyryte.

I was sitting at 4.18% hit and I had 3 points in FA and a draenai in my group. That has since changed due to a good loot night, but those misses baffled me.

nevermind · 07/30/09, 2:05 PM

Shot goes off, boss dies, shot misses. Maybe?

theane · 07/30/09, 2:16 PM

Delete Please

Pijn · 07/30/09, 2:21 PM

The only possible explanation i can think of; you got out of range of the draenei aura for a few seconds. It is possible i guess, if the particular draenei got grabbed in the Hot pocket and you were standing just out of range of him (Ignis has a huge hitbox). Again, only you can know for sure if this was the case.

All we can tell you is, to answer your original question: draenei hit aura gives the full 1% hit, no exceptions.

Edit; just checked the range on Heroic Presence, and it's 'only' 30 yards, so it is very likely you lost the aura for a moment (or for a longer period, leaving you at 99% hit meaning most shots would still hit, with only 1-2 misses).

Har · 07/30/09, 2:31 PM

I looked through the buffs tab and even tried parsing the raw log, however I couldn't find any reference to heroic presence at all. In an absence of data, I can't tell you for sure, however I would guess that the most likely reason you're seeing a few misses is being out of range of your draenei.

Ossian666 · 07/30/09, 4:16 PM

Hmm that may be a possibility. I'll have to make more of a conscious effort to stick closer to my draenei.

jmichaelp · 08/07/09, 11:56 AM

My playing observation, in-game experimentation & comparison in raids to other hunters indicated (for my situation at least, over a few months time) that although the spreadsheet indicates hit-capping will result in higher DPS, actual play showed differently. As alluded to in previous discussions, I think this anomaly exists due to differences between consistent DPS (from hit-cap) & the potential to have higher PS when not capped.

This conclusion was reached prior to the last two patches - have any changes occurred in these patches that might impact my previous conclusion?

Edit: After reviewing the spreadsheet, I don't think that hit is modeled as a smooth function. I also noticed that there's a "hit adjustment" in the calculations page, from which I conclude that hit couldn't be modeled just right otherwise an
adjustment would be unnecessary.

alarge · 08/07/09, 6:16 PM

Originally Posted by jmichaelp

My playing observation, in-game experimentation & comparison in raids to other hunters indicated (for my situation at least, over a few months time) that although the spreadsheet indicates hit-capping will result in higher DPS, actual play showed differently. As alluded to in previous discussions, I think this anomaly exists due to differences between consistent DPS (from hit-cap) & the potential to have higher PS when not capped.

This conclusion was reached prior to the last two patches - have any changes occurred in these patches that might impact my previous conclusion?

Edit: After reviewing the spreadsheet, I don't think that hit is modeled as a smooth function. I also noticed that there's a "hit adjustment" in the calculations page, from which I conclude that hit couldn't be modeled just right otherwise an
adjustment would be unnecessary.

Your conclusion is unlikely, given the degree of applicability of hit to the full range of damaging attacks -- as long as you are considering average dps over a significant period of time.

Consider the mathematical model is based on the (vastly oversimplified) premise that:

99% of 100 damage == 100% of 99 damage

Trade-offs between hit and other stats come down to changes in the percent or changes in the damage. For example:

99% of 101 damage > 100% of 99 damage

This was the topic of earlier posts in this thread, which some folks found very difficult to swallow.

You seem to be asserting that (basically):

99% of 100 damage > 100% of 99 damage

Since the 99% is probabilistic, there will exist segments of a fight where you have no misses. For those segments, the equation looks like:

100% of 100 damage > 100% of 99 damage

Which is a duh, of course. But the random number generator doesn't "reset" at the beginning of each fight. Your first shot is just as likely to miss as your 100th. So you will eventually have misses. Which will significantly pull down your average dps in the vicinity of that miss.

Now, given how proc effects and cooldowns interact, accurately calculating the full impact of hit is somewhat difficult. This was one of the contentions made by the "hit cap is #1!" crowd. They claimed that the problem was complex enough that the spreadsheet couldn't get it right, and therefore must actually be under-valuing hit. You would seem to be on the opposite side of that fence, with only anecdotal evidence on your side. You either need to demonstrate mathematically why the model is wrong, or provide statistically significant (i.e., not anecdotal) data that contradicts the model for your claim to be well received.

Most likely, something else is at work:

a. You are drawing erroneous conclusions from the spreadsheet because you aren't quite using it correctly

b. Your sample size is insufficient or you are inadequately analyzing it

c. You are alliance and are forgetting about the 1% hit you get for free in raids (and thus are 1% over the cap most of the time).

Synergy · 08/08/09, 8:37 AM

I'm almost positive right now I'm still getting 12 hit from socket bonuses that I shouldn't be now that dragon's eyes aren't prismatic. The spreadsheet says I should be 12 hit short from what my character stats say and I hadn't changed any gear after the patch. My pants and chest both say I don't have the bonus but my stats say I do. Anyone else notice this?