Hit rating - Page 5

Alex234 · 12/03/08, 6:13 AM

Originally Posted by Æthien

Only FA does transfer to your pet if you don't have any hit on gear.
So I don't care what that GM said, FA is bugged whether they intend it to transfer to pets or not.

If it transfer only when you have no any +hit gear -- its seems like bug, yes.
But as you are Hunter - there is no situation where you have no any gear with +hit on it.
Or you are very bad hunter

Anyway Blizz surely know about this situation with FA and we will see will be any changes in new patches or not.
Just for now for BM, IMHO of course, 3 points in FA are useless.

Soulcow · 12/03/08, 8:36 AM

Since my previous test and Alex234 tests didn't gave the same conclusion I went back to the dummy for 2 sessions of around 2k pet attacks. On both sessions I had the same talent spec with 0/3 FA. I turned the autocast for all pet abilities off, except for Claw.

Session 1:
263 hit (same as Alex234 used).
1192 Melee hits, 0 missed
810 Claw hits, 0 missed
Recount

So this is the same as Alex234 found. So with 263 your pet is hitcapped!

Session 2:
262 hit (same as I used yesterday)
1166 Melee hits, 12 missed.
873 Claw hits, 8 missed.
Recount

20/(1166+873)*100% = 1.0%.

This is really not what anyone would expect, but it seems that 1 (specific) extra hit rating is giving pets a full 1% increased hit chance!
I think the sample size is big enough now to conclude that pets still have around 1% miss chance at 262 (7.99%) hit and are capped at 263 (8.02%). If anyone disagrees, feel free to test this yourself with bigger sample sizes, but I convinced myself.

This also means that it is better to be over the hitcap than just below. 262 might look good enough in the tooltip, but I would advice to always get atleast 263 hit. Better a few hit rating above 263 then just below 263, because you get a whole 1% pet miss for free by going to 263 hit or higher!

Luinwen · 12/03/08, 9:16 AM

Reading through all this data from various tests I would conclude the following concerning hunter hit <-> pet hit:
Pet hit doesn't "accept" commas. A hunter with 7,99% hit will only transfer a flat 7% to his pet. A hunter with 8,00% hit will have a hit-capped pet.
That theory would explain all those tests here that showed "weird" data for pets.

Elimbras · 12/03/08, 11:49 AM

I would like also to have data from bosses,
Dummies are good, but I can't exclude they have a weird behaviour, possibly different for one reason or another from the boss behaviour.
Bosses can also be weird, but they are what wewant to kill, so that's their behaviour we want to know.

Crowbite · 12/03/08, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Elimbras

I would like also to have data from bosses,
Dummies are good, but I can't exclude they have a weird behaviour, possibly different for one reason or another from the boss behaviour.
Bosses can also be weird, but they are what wewant to kill, so that's their behaviour we want to know.

Uh, their is a boss level target dummy. His results should be exactly the same if you parsed a hundred Patchwerks.

Rosamonde · 12/03/08, 12:05 PM

Soulcow's data on the difference between 7.99% and 8.02% +hit on a pet's misses is very enlightening. I agree that data from actual boss encounters is needed, but controlled testing is also important, for the sake of comparison if nothing else. Soulcow's test shows us what to watch for in live raid data.

Something I had not really paid attention to before, but noticed in my own test and in the other test screenshots posted, was the surprisingly high rate of glancing blows for pets -- around 23% for pet melee attacks in the posted screenshots.

I have very little experience raiding as a melee class, having played casters when I get tired of being a hunter -- is this typical of white melee attacks for players too?

Is there anything that can be done about it, or is it a "fact of life" when raiding as a hunter? It doesn't seem that any of our stats which are transferable to pets will have any effect on this, even if rogues and warriors can remedy it for themselves in some way, but I want to make sure I am not overlooking something obvious.

Shaâden · 12/03/08, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Crowbite

Uh, their is a boss level target dummy. His results should be exactly the same if you parsed a hundred Patchwerks.

Yes, except if this heroic dummy is bugged somehow.

I share the opinion that you we need some WWS data from PVE encounters to confirm or not this idea.
But these data should be collected in well-known conditions: be sure of the mob level (WWS parsing allows to select only mob fights), take care of draenei aura or some other temporary hit buff, and don't forget about some debuffs increasing miss-rate (like Archavon Choking Cloud for instance).

kbranch · 12/03/08, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by Rosamonde

Something I had not really paid attention to before, but noticed in my own test and in the other test screenshots posted, was the surprisingly high rate of glancing blows for pets -- around 23% for pet melee attacks in the posted screenshots.

Is there anything that can be done about it, or is it a "fact of life" when raiding as a hunter? It doesn't seem that any of our stats which are transferable to pets will have any effect on this, even if rogues and warriors can remedy it for themselves in some way, but I want to make sure I am not overlooking something obvious.

I recently had a 24% glancing rate on the heroic dummy over something like 36k hits, so that sounds about right. As I understand it, glancing blows are unavoidable. You used to be able to counter them with weapon skill, but that was nerfed pre-BC.

Ena.the.rogue · 12/03/08, 1:15 PM

Originally Posted by Alex234

If it transfer only when you have no any +hit gear -- its seems like bug, yes.
But as you are Hunter - there is no situation where you have no any gear with +hit on it.
Or you are very bad hunter

You could strip off all of your gear and then set your pet to attack the target.

On the Draeneic aura affecting all targets question, that doesn't seem to make sense for two reasons:
1) Surely, horde toons wouldn't be affected by the aura.
2) Seems like some of the posters implied that the were including the aura in their calculation already. So, unless they were getting it once from a specific Draenei and again from the bug, which seems really unlikely, the realm wide aura bug theory is incorrect.

Rosamonde · 12/03/08, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ena.the.rogue

You could strip off all of your gear and then set your pet to attack the target.

On the Draeneic aura affecting all targets question, that doesn't seem to make sense for two reasons:
1) Surely, horde toons wouldn't be affected by the aura.
2) Seems like some of the posters implied that the were including the aura in their calculation already. So, unless they were getting it once from a specific Draenei and again from the bug, which seems really unlikely, the realm wide aura bug theory is incorrect.

We have actually been discussing the hunter talent Focused Aim, and whether its 1-3% +hit bonus affects pets as well as hunters. The Draenic aura is something to be aware of when looking at live raid data, but I don't believe there is any question over whether it affects pets (it does).

Soulcow · 12/03/08, 5:20 PM

Originally Posted by Shaâden

Yes, except if this heroic dummy is bugged somehow.

I share the opinion that you we need some WWS data from PVE encounters to confirm or not this idea.

I did Naxx 10 man today and in the first 3 wings I used 262 hit and my pet had misses and then just before patchwork I changed to 290 hit and my pet didn't miss anymore the rest of the raid. So this confirms my dummy testing of this afternoon.

WWS

You have to change the colums since the miss % showed by default is a combination of dodge, parry and miss. You have to enable the "Miss" column.

Vaxum · 12/03/08, 8:39 PM

Last night we did 25-man Naxx, Sartharian & Malygos. To test the 8% hit cap theory I raided with just a hair over 8%: 5.06% from gear (+166 hit), 1% from draenei aura, 2% from talents (2/3 FA). Results were:

Naxx25 - 5403 shots, 8 misses (1 of which was after the draenei in my party died).

OS25 - 890 shots, 0 misses

Eye25 - 219 shots, 1 miss

IMO this is sadly inconclusive. If the cap really is 8% I should not have seen ANY misses. However, if the cap is 9% as originally believed, I should have seen ~65 misses, not a mere 8.

[edit: as pointed out by a later poster, Draenei racial is only 30yards. This explains most of the misses.]

Alex234 · 12/03/08, 9:37 PM

May be it was some evades on bosses or phase changing, etc.

flimflam · 12/03/08, 10:49 PM

10 Bosses over 2 nights and haven't missed with 8.34%.

Rokh · 12/03/08, 11:53 PM

263 Hit - 8.02% hit - 0/3 FA

Wow Web Stats

Zero misses, zero pet misses over 7 bosses.