Hit rating - Page 9

Gadget · 01/06/09, 3:48 AM

I would like to see a calculation of the +hit/AP break even point. Whereas, mathmatically, capping +hit may be the optimum, I tend to believe that in RealRaidLife™ the real optimum may sit around 6% +hit (excluding Draenei). If you do not really need the socket bonus you may for example put 32AP. Seeing a full Boss fight, or even a full instance run, in total the AP gain will at one point exceed the real damage lost by missing a few shots. The spreadsheet is modelling this based on the "hard facts", 1% miss is 1% miss. During a raid you may not even miss once, if you are lucky, though. How about visualising the real numbers from many raids?

Is this interesting? Is there any idea how to build this model? Does it make sense to collect data from everyone here for a start? Or, can it be read from WWS? Unfortuntaley, I can't do any programming, so I have to leave it with the idea itself.

Jerem · 01/06/09, 4:08 AM

It's not about how much DPS 1% miss costs you.
It's about how easy it is to gain 1% hit and the DPS that comes with it.

If you consider the itemization cost and the return in DPS, +hit is a cheap stat.

If you hope to "be lucky" in raids, and not shoot this one-out-of-a-hundred arrow/bullet that will miss, you might as well raid with 1% crit, hoping to always shoot that one-out-of-a-hundred bullet/arrow that WILL crit.

It might be a personal opinion only, but I think raiding (and raiding efficiently) consists in removing as many random parameters as possible, and in being as consistent as possible from one raid to the other.

Bikiniwax · 01/06/09, 12:29 PM

The data from the original post needs to be updated as it is inaccurate.

Levis · 01/07/09, 10:24 AM

Thank you for this fix.
1% hit is a lot of difference, need to re-gem now

Sunflame · 01/07/09, 6:13 PM

Tamed Loque for the upcoming patch and wanted to check out Spiritstrike on Dummies.
Ok, I went to the lvl 80 Dummy and the first Spiritstrike missed(Me being hitcapped). I was like "what the hell" until I noticed Loque was still 76(doh!). Stupid me, yeah ^_^'
So I've lvled him to 80.

Went to the Heroic Dummy and found out that he still misses with Spiritstrike. My only explanation is: "Spiritstrike is based on Spellhit". Please proof me wrong cuz I don't want to believe it's spellhit based.

Spiritstrike misses

Keep in mind Spiritstrike(DoT) 300 is the amount of ticks(2 per Spiritstrike).
That means, 150 Spiritstrikes did hit. 17 did not.

As you can see on the screenshot, my hit is above 8% and Swing missed 0 times.

Oh well, if that means I need more hit to get Loque Spiritstrike hitcapped, I'll stick with my cat :\

KraxisSingular · 01/07/09, 7:48 PM

Seems about right. Though something is slightly off since spellhit requires less hit rating. Overall it should have been somewhere around 6% misses and it is above 10%. However that can be due to the small sample.

In any case this is definately worth bringing up as it would be a rude shock to the many Hunters that finally believe they can use Loque as a raiding pet.

Garby · 01/07/09, 8:35 PM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

Seems about right. Though something is slightly off since spellhit requires less hit rating.

What? Hit and spellhit are unified stats now, they require the exact same amounts; don't they?

E: Nevermind; I just performed a cursory check of the Mage forum and found that you were right. Apologies.

Sunflame · 01/07/09, 8:55 PM

1 Hitrating is
~ 0,0305% Meleehit
~ 0,0305% Rangehit
~ 0,0381% Spellhit
for us.

With my hit (8,14%) I have 10,18% Spellhit. That should be around 6% away from capped(like Kraxis pointed out).
I also believe the 10%+ miss due to the small sample.

kpm1 · 01/07/09, 8:58 PM

Delete post please, as answer was given by post above me.

Bikiniwax · 01/08/09, 9:00 AM

Originally Posted by Sunflame

Tamed Loque for the upcoming patch and wanted to check out Spiritstrike on Dummies.
Ok, I went to the lvl 80 Dummy and the first Spiritstrike missed(Me being hitcapped). I was like "what the hell" until I noticed Loque was still 76(doh!). Stupid me, yeah ^_^'
So I've lvled him to 80.

Went to the Heroic Dummy and found out that he still misses with Spiritstrike. My only explanation is: "Spiritstrike is based on Spellhit". Please proof me wrong cuz I don't want to believe it's spellhit based.

Spiritstrike misses

Keep in mind Spiritstrike(DoT) 300 is the amount of ticks(2 per Spiritstrike).
That means, 150 Spiritstrikes did hit. 17 did not.

As you can see on the screenshot, my hit is above 8% and Swing missed 0 times.

Oh well, if that means I need more hit to get Loque Spiritstrike hitcapped, I'll stick with my cat :\

What was your hit rating?

legomyegolas · 01/08/09, 9:34 AM

Originally Posted by Bikiniwax

What was your hit rating?

It's right there in the screenshot. 8.14%

Fierra · 01/08/09, 1:59 PM

Originally Posted by Sunflame

Tamed Loque for the upcoming patch and wanted to check out Spiritstrike on Dummies.
Ok, I went to the lvl 80 Dummy and the first Spiritstrike missed(Me being hitcapped). I was like "what the hell" until I noticed Loque was still 76(doh!). Stupid me, yeah ^_^'
So I've lvled him to 80.

Went to the Heroic Dummy and found out that he still misses with Spiritstrike. My only explanation is: "Spiritstrike is based on Spellhit". Please proof me wrong cuz I don't want to believe it's spellhit based.

Spiritstrike misses

Keep in mind Spiritstrike(DoT) 300 is the amount of ticks(2 per Spiritstrike).
That means, 150 Spiritstrikes did hit. 17 did not.

As you can see on the screenshot, my hit is above 8% and Swing missed 0 times.

Oh well, if that means I need more hit to get Loque Spiritstrike hitcapped, I'll stick with my cat :\

Did you check further into recount to see if it was an actual miss, as opposed to a parry/dodge? Basic recount screens often lump them all together until you look at the breakdown.

Sunflame · 01/08/09, 5:15 PM

Originally Posted by Fierra

Did you check further into recount to see if it was an actual miss, as opposed to a parry/dodge? Basic recount screens often lump them all together until you look at the breakdown.

Yes, I did.
Spiritstrike(DoT) showed nothing but DoT ticks.
And Spiritstrike(below Spiritstrike(DoT)) showed nothing but Spiritstrike Misses.
Though I doubt Spiritstrike can get parried/dodged since its a cast.

edit:
Screenshot added.

Here
As you can see it's only miss or hit.
This time 800 hits, 56 misses with Spiritstrike.

Rosamonde · 01/09/09, 1:54 PM

Well, if Spiritstrike always missed, it wouldn't be setting the DoT in the first place, so there must be a problem with the way Recount is handling it.

Nagisamuro · 01/09/09, 2:45 PM

Originally Posted by Rosamonde

Well, if Spiritstrike always missed, it wouldn't be setting the DoT in the first place, so there must be a problem with the way Recount is handling it.

I think Recount is probably giving us the correct picture. The attack itself does no damage, it just applies the DoT debuff. The DoT debuff ticks immediately, and again after 6 seconds. I found an old post in the Recount thread where the addon's author explains why (somewhat) Rip applications don't show up but the ticks do.