If serpent sting can't proc Lock n' Load, (and the split internal cooldown for freezing traps / serpent sting is fixed), then it might not be a great idea to have Black Arrow ticking while you're on Ln'L cooldown.

... i might be wrong though, because i have no clue what the "Traplauncher" is. I remember reading something about "exciting new trap mechanics" - have i missed some important info or are you just assuming there will be an "arrow" version for every trap

EDIT : actually i'm wrong about Black Arrow. 30 sec cooldown, 15sec uptime. Fire it on Ln'L proc, wait for the cooldown, fire it again.

The patchnotes on mmo-champion we're edited, but earlier tonight it said:

However, that part is gone now.

And why wouldn't you just fire Black Arrow on cooldown no matter what? LnL can proc off black arrow or immo trap, and since you'll have immo trap up 100% of the time you won't be able to use other traps for dancing.

Ah, I didn't think of that, taking points out of iAotH to put in noxious stings would probably be a stronger build.

to be honest, I am still uncertain why with 3.1 3% off noxious stings have suddenly become left out of many suggested builds. After all, 3% is 3%, and Serpent Sting will do more damage for a GCD than Steady (especially when 3% is taken into account).

Personally i'm still keeping it in, however i imagine a lot of test builds will avoid it, since we wont be using the glyph of steady shot (probably) the need to put serps is less viable when you can be putting up 6% on the CD and then not have to waste an ES at potentially 6% increased damaged on applying a serps.

I still think having both will be a dps increase, 2/15/54 really seems to be the way forward at the moment, but the rotation is obviously yet to be finalized. (On top of that i can't imagine these changes being permanant throughout the testing phase)

I'm really hoping that these changes last, so that the hardcore hunters will be able to stay sv, and really put their abilities to the test. I'm sure once you get a feel for everything including the new cds it will become second nature - but at the start it will really grant the able hunters the ability to shine where others will simply... well, stand in the voids :>

Could we try to write patch-things in the correct topic?
Let's save this for the current build.

3.1 Upcoming Changes

I second that, I hope the changes are staying, I've loved going to Survival for dps after the former patches, because it makes raiding a bit more interesting when youre not just staying there and popping cd's/spamming steady while keeping serpent up.

Also, http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...&version=9614# would be my preferance in a specc as well.

With a prio of BA > Immo trap (glyphed) with launcher > ES > Aimed > Serpent Sting > Steady Shot.

It looks like we will have to rethink the optimal glyphs.
Explosive Shot seems like a must to regain the lost crit from the nerfed T.N.T. talent. Serpent Sting is probably the best to drop for that.
Aimed and Kill Shot glyps also seem tempting, but can they offset Steady Shot's or Hawk's glyph bonuses?

I run arround with 39% crit unbuffed at the moment and since Ulduar wil provide better gear, the ammount of crit wil only increase. I'm pretty sure Explosive Shot Glyph won't be a must in PvE because im alrdy getting roughly 50%+ crit raidbuffed to the teeth in 25 man raids. Perhaps usefull for hunters who yust starting to raid but once you start getting some good gear. It becomes less and less usefull the more crit you get.

Edit: nvm about glyph of immolation, noticed traplauncher and immolation refresh aren't on PTR.

With crit rates already very high, and then 3% extra agility from Hunting Party I don't think explosive is a must. On my wws parses I've already been getting around 79% crit on some fights. (With Explosive Shot.)

I'm also pondering dropping the steady shot glyph.

Instead I think that Aimed Shot is going to be a must. Two seconds off, that will be around 20% increase in damage from the Aimed shot damage component to shot rotations. This will also mean I will be using less steady shots decreasing the value of the Steady Shot Glyph.

I might very well keep the serpent sting glyph, if only because 21s is very nice, serpent sting is a huge mana hog. This will give me around 3 extra GCD every minute to use on other things.

Depending on the health of bosses in Uldar and the subsequent length of boss fights. Kill Shot might be viable. Almost halving the cooldown on Kill Shot which often crits for 11-16k seems a pretty decent dps boost. Of course it might be best to wait until the spreadsheet so I can plug in real numbers.

I too am liking the 2/15/54 but I am wondering if dropping a few points of master tact down to 2/5 would be better spent elsewhere. As it stands now fully buffed I am close to 50% crit so MT seems like a talent of diminishing returns. Either spent in hawk or stings. With these new shots and more uses of the gcd I am also thinking the steady shot glyph may be the disposible glyph in that we will be firing steady even less now. I am thinking 2/18/51

Glyphs, hawk, serpent, and aimed. The immolation glyph is now interesting with essplosive shot refreshing it but the 3 second window seems a bit close to call on movement fights. For patch dps races it may prove better. The reason I like serpent is a couple fold, it buffs all damage by 3% so it needs to be on the mob, longer duration means less gcd's spent on a lackluster attack, and movement fights it is always ticking when you are running around. The lower cd on aimed means more aimed and less steady which is why I'm going away from the steady glyph. With 5 points in hawk it may make the hawk glyph unnecessary making way for the immo glyph.

One item that I think folks have forgotten about is the Biznicks scope from back in MC. Using the pawn strings from the speadsheet 30 hit outweighs 40 crit. I have found that switching my glove and boot enchants to agi along with the scope change will give me about 8 dps on the spreadsheet. This will probably be even better with the change to hunting party.

We will all have to talk our tanks into allowing us to set immo traps before fights I think.

*Edit bad link on 2/18/51