enelnico

Now that LnL procs off BA, and the LnL does no longer has an internal CD the ammount of LnL you get on a fight is realy realy random, haste doesnt has nothing to do with it.

P.D: First post , and sorry for my english

 

KraxisSingular

You got real unlucky, simple as that.

The relatively low procchance per tick, the time without any ticks and the lack of a cooldown means that RNG is highly active. I have had three LnL procs back to back on Aureiya (or what her name is), while for the entire fight of Razorscale as well as Ignis I had none.

I never thought I would say this, but I would prefer an internal cooldown to come back and then up the proc chance a bit.

 

Skybluesky

One simple way to increase your LnL procs dramatically and independent of skill or gear would be to spec properly for it, by taking (3/3) Resourcefulness.

 

cidica

Just looking at both specs I have to wonder why you both are not using 3/3 resourcefulness. Also 1/3 ew? yet you put points into Imp Mark why? Honestly I would redo the build. 2/3 ew 1/2 GftT 3/3 resourcefulness. Also you have the hunters mark glyph why? while it's always up the SrS glyph would be of more benifet and makes the shot priority a bit easier to manage.

 

cidica

I honestly have to agree with this. While I do love tripple procs of LnL when they do happen going into a fight (lets say patchwork as an example) and not getting 1 LnL proc at all is not a nice thing.

 

Hawk

My worst case was when my guild pulled general in Uld and for the duration of the fight which lasted about 9 mins or so I did not have one LnL proc.I would like to see the internal CD brought back or make it a surv talent which is on a 1.50-2min CD or something along those lines.

 

cidica

ok that's really not cool at all. TBH I'd like the internal cooldown put back in but at the same time give us SrS LnL procs. While I do like BA to an extent maybe make it only work with some shots es/as and the rest just stay at normal.

 

Hagen

I have to agree with you about the internal CD, but I think the former CD of 30s and a proc chance of 20-100% per BA tick would be appropriate.

 

cidica

I don't see them doing a 20-100% chance per BA tick. and even a 50% chance per BA period could get to be to much. I honestly like the SrS proc while it was up 100% of the time it was not always giving us so many procs to a point where it was over powered.

 

stickums

What would be ideal is if the proc chance increased every tick. 10% for the first tick and +10% for each one after. Give it an ICD if necessary.. but it's just way too possible to get zero procs for a long period and then get 2-3 back to back as a trash mob dies.

 

Ryas

Currently, LnL is way too RNG. Yes, I know the ability is basically built around RNG, but right now it's too much. I think, as said before, an internal CD needs to be reinstated and and it given about a 15-20% chance or so per tick. A 45 second internal CD would be about as much as most trinkets (think Mirror of Truth and Greatness), giving us on average about 5 ticks per 5 minutes of a boss encounter (taking into account a string of bad RNG and not getting a proc maybe a whole black arrow application). This way, the RNG is taken into effect still as it may not proc, but it becomes a much more reliable proc then it is now. On Hodir this week I think I got about 7 procs in about 6 minutes (though, I only lived for about 4, never got dispelled frost nova, QQ), while on Ignis I got 3 in 5 minutes. Both fights where Black Arrow was up every CD, and two completely different cases of RNG. For a talent that a decent amount of our DPS comes from, it's currently way too RNG to Theorycraft around, let alone really tell where Survival DPS is at right now.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...nterweapon.jpg

 

Ufthak

I was thinking that a way of removing the LnL RNG would be to have it proc when Black Arrow was removed from the target. This would keep the proc rate about the same on average as I understgand it.

While I realise that this would mean the LnL shots would never be affected by Black Arrow I feel it might be worth it.

 

stickums

Yeah that thought crossed my mind too. I don't know if they could do it in such a way that if LnL doesn't proc on any of the ticks that it forces a proc when it drops off. That would put it at an average of 1 every 30 seconds, or 24 for those with resourcefulness.. making it a much more attractive talent than it already it is.

I think we should take that to the official forums though so it gets seen.

 

Caggy

Well from what I can see, LnL is suppose to act like Nightfall, in a sense of making things interesting without making it overpowered. You're suppose to not see strings of procs, and then the opposite sometimes, and it should not drastically increase your DPS over a decent period, like the 10 minutes of a boss fight.

Also last I checked, Nightfall didn't have an ICD, but I need to look it up again. I haven't checked warlocks for a while now.

 

alienangel

From a personal point of view, I'm fine with LnL as it is right now, it doesn't proc often, and that can lowers dps, but it makes the spec less dependent on reacting perfectly to a proc too, since being distracted and losing a tick on 1 LnL proc isn't as bad as being distracted and losing a tick on 3.

From a raid point of view though, it's annoying, since the e-peen meter can be dramatically different between the hunter who got 0 LnL procs on a fight, and the hunter who got 3 while standing in a rune of power.

 

Pootch

LnL is a broken talent... Sometimes i get 3-5 LnL proccs in a row, but normally there is only 1-2 on a 8-10min fights.
RNG sucks.

 

Rezdan

Broken implies that its not working as intended while in reality it really is working as the tooltip states. Regardless of wether or not you feel the talent is underpowered, LnL is WAI and until Blizz announces any changes its a bit premature to think that it will change.

IIRC there was an occurence of a Boomkin saying that because XXX didn't proc in the first 7 casts of YYY, significant dps was lost. Ghostcrawler then proceeded to reply saying that any actual data quantifying the difference in DPS between having an ability proc or not proc would be most helpful. If this were to be applied to LnL, we would have to show a WWS or WMO or other clear data showing a significant dps difference with lucky and unlucky LnL procs and possibly post this on the Damage Dealer forums instead.

 

iamthehendrix

As of the all the armor pen they are slapping on ulduar gear, anyone know the definite math that puts armor pen above crit? Somewhere in this thread a figure like 1 armor pen rating = 1.13 crit rating (not sure about this) was placed.

 

Beachwanderer

Please reference:

Hunter stats and scaling

 

iamthehendrix

I was just looking at that, but there is a definite equation that puts armor pen above crit rating. That thread just explained armor penetration in general. It looks like the information is based around the 2 roll system.

The spreadsheet equation is showing a 1.19 crit rating = 1 armor pen rating.

 

Beachwanderer

My math may be wrong, but if EffectiveArmor=BaseArmor*(1-ArP/1523*1.25) (giving us 1219 for max armor pen which makes Effective Armor = Base Armor), and X = Armor / (Armor+ (467.5*AttackerLevel-22167.5)), where Armor = 8090, X = .3468. From what I understand this is the amount of dmg mitigated from the lvl83 having 8090 armor. So a shot that should do 1000 dmg will instead do 653.2 with 0 Armor Pen. 1219 Armor Pen will make all 1000 dmg go through. Therefore you will see a dmg increase of 153% with max armor pen of your PHYSICAL dmg. Most raids my physical dmg contribution is only about 40% of my total dmg with around 100 armor pen, so I should see my physical dmg contribution become about 50% of my total dmg. So at 50% crit I should see an equal benefit to magical/pet and physical dmg, and any higher crit would see a greater benefit since not all magical/pet dmg is effected by my crit. I guess I could put this all in a formula but this is the starting idea.

 

Cl4nK

Excuse me for breaking up the conversation about armor pen, but anyone knows if it's worth to use 4 pieces of t8 to get the AP bonus proc from Steady Shot, considering the fact that in a perfect rotation, we don't use as many steady shots as we used to.

 

rawboe

People seem to talk a lot about losing autoshots because you have to move during some boss encounters. Other than eyebeams on kologarn, I can't think of any boss fight where you have to completely drop what you're doing and book, as long as you started in a reasonable place to begin with. I guess maybe bombs on deconstructor...

Regardless, stutterstepping was introduced with the WotLK patch. If you use a swing timer, just pause your movement for a split second every time your autoshot comes up and you never lose a shot. When you get good at it, you can move at about 90% normal runspeed and do damage as though you were standing still minus steadies. When you get great at it, you won't need a swing timer anymore. It's an essential hunter skill in arena. Between stutterstepping and strategic use of disengage to do your running for you, you dont really have to worry about losing white hits unless eyebeams are chasing you or something.

Also, consider rocket boots as a pve enchant. They've got more crit than icewalker now, and the ability to blitz into the right position and immediately open up again when movement is called for is worth considering. To give you a clearer idea, without rocket boots, kologarn shoots eyebeams at you, you run for your life. If you're good, you spin shoot your instants, but pausing to white hit is out of the question. With boots, you can blitz away from the beams while spin shooting you instants, and when your boots run out you'll be far enough away from the beams to do whatever you want, even steady if that's where you are in your rotation.

 

CALMSTORM

Well nice that the Tier 8,5 set bonus issue is raised... My Mathematics show me that the 2-set bonus (10% for Serpent Sting) Gives us Survival Hunters 0,1*4% (Serpent is 5% of our damage as best) = 0,4% or 0,5% damage bonus at max...

While again same maths says Tier 7,5 2-set bonus (5% for pet damage) = 0,05 * 17% (Pet damage is around 15% - 20% for Survival if I am not wrong) which makes aroun 0,85% - 0,9% of xtra dps... Looks to me as if T 7,5 2-Set bonus should be kept somehow.. as 1% damage is nothing to be sneezed at...

Please tell me your comments.


PS: Even 4 set T7,5 looks helpful for Ulduar but I am aware we cannot afford to keep 4x inferior stats on our most important gear...

 

iamthehendrix

I stretched my autoshot timer across my whole screen to make sure I dont clip a single one during kologarn.

Managed to do 6561.3 dps in odd gear. (no set bonuses. experimental gear)

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis