well yea, it lets you run 180 degrees away from your target if necessary and still shoot him. You can still pause to get your autoshots off if you time it right.

You can also run straight away from a target while strafing? It just means you're running sideways, but the direction is the same.

Been using 0/14/57 and 0/15/56 since 3.1 hit and kinda bored of not having Imp hawk, wondering if there is any 6/14/51 spec that could work.

Put this one together before Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft, not tried it yet as I've been quite busy. Anyone tried it or any similar spec?

Xrixor, my spec isn't exactly the older 6/14/51, but it is one of the new cookie cutters on the front page. The 1 point in IHawk is there only to make it proc, similar to the older 1/18/52. You could easily copy mine down, try it out, and see if it works for you.

I rather put more than 1 point in Imp hawk as I'm quite far from haste cap to get Steady down to 1.5.

Funny this has been brought up, this is exactly what I have been curious about. Since getting a few pieces of gear out of Ulduar my haste has dropped significantly. I remember reading through discussion about lower haste = more dps out of the Hawk Glyph, but I am more curious about the talent Imp Hawk.

I was running 1/15/55 Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft with the one point in Improved Aspect of the Hawk to enable me to reach soft cap.



I have a few questions that I would like to ask here to hopefully help me avoid duel speccing and testing for a long while.

1.) Does the spreadsheet account for 1.5 steadies / being able to squeeze three in during certain point in our rotations. I am talking about when it determines how much dps each talent point equates to. If not then it seems like a huge uncertainty there.

2.) Is it still important to reach the 1.5 SS goal? There are enough so/so talents to scavenge from to achieve this..

Example for my particular case. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft 3/15/53 (I know the GfTT bug has been fixed but the spread sheet still shows a big dps gain.)

Saw this yesterday on mmo-champion and was wondering if Serpent Sting is being brought back into the mix of LnL procs or is the wording just misleading?

They just paraphrased the tooltip. If you look at their talent calculator it still has the full wording and a 6% proc chance at 3/3. Supposedly how it is on live anyhow and it's just a tooltip update (like a lot of things in this patch).

I don't understand what fights you're fighting. Is it the same instance I have been going to? You have more than enough time to stand and nuke for quite long periods of time. Certainly more than naxx.

Razorscale: pick your side and burn stuff down. You should never have to move except for fire.

Ignis: Pick a spot where you know the tank isn't going to kite to, and you have access to the entire fight without moving. You are knocked in the air periodically, but I use that time for an explosive or sting.

XT: pick a spot, nuke. You might have to run with gravity bomb, but no sane strategy has people with light bomb running *anywhere* as its pointless and endagers others.

Kolgarn: You only ever move, ever if his eye beams are on you, or to give way to others.

Hodir: This is a total movement fight, but AoTH procs many times here still. At camp fires.

And so on...

Mimiron? You're standing and nuking for the entirety of all phases except phase 3, and momentary phase 2/4 barrage movements, and even then its only till you're just past 180 degrees to be safe.

Perhaps you're moving too much in general? as a rule you should restrict unnecesary moving. The key is to pick a raid spot which is pretty secure from further movements to begin with, as to gain great DPS the surv hunter must move only minimally. This does not make you a weak player, it makes you smart enough to pick a spot and nuke safely from.

In general I plan ahead. If I know I'll need to move, I coincide the movement with a sting or explosive shot as these can be done on the run. Typically I'll do this at Hodir, or when I see positioning getting out of whack in the future and want to be secure from moving further down the line (example: tank is kiting this way). Disengage is the best move you can make. I mostly Disengage with an explosive shot then sit where I land for another 1-2 mins.

This is not a criticism of you, but a strong objection to your post.

I must be confused, but I have yet to see a source for this claim. Where does this come from?

It sounds like you're basing your logic on your own playstyle. As the poster above said, movement in Ulduar is pretty much restricted to very few instances where the boss drops a fire/bomb/laser/ice block/etc. on your head, and even after, there's usually ample time to stand still and gain the benefits from Hawk and Sniper Training.

It sounds to me as if you're playing a bit too cautiously. Granted, this may be what you're used to with Ulduar being relatively new, but read the above poster's comment about the boss mechanics and adjust accordingly. You'll find the usefulness for IHawk might increase for you.

Most people seem to lean toward SrS, KS, and ES for glyphs and it seems the right way to go these days. Steady shot really is falling off in terms of percentage of our total damage these days so the SS glyph is having less and less of an effect on dps. With fights being more mobile and sometimes more burst intensive, getting in those extra kill shots really can make a large difference, I personally haven't switched from SS to KS yet, but I'm planning on doing it before our Monday raid.

Personally I've been loving glyphed KS. Most bosses have adds to use KS even on the reduced cooldown, and it's another instant to fire. And multiple 43k crit KS's on Hodir adds make for fun times.

Steady Shot glyph on the other hand always felt wasted whenever I let SS fall off (which is still fairly often).

One more thing that boosts Kill Shot Glyph's value.
Yogg-Saron P3 has the boss starting @ 30%. You pretty much have kill shot available for good 2~3 minutes.
Not to mention all the adds you kill in P1.

What gives a bigger DPS boost Potion of Speed or Wild Magic?

I believe Potion of Speed... but I'm not sure. Potion of Speed are the only ones that I have used.

Well, let's talk about Yogg ^^, when you are in "portal" group then IAotH is useless anyway because you have to run always - to your first target in his mind, then to his brain and out to give a little bit dmg to Tentacles or if u can just refresh your sanity... so on yogg is completely useless to have IAotH in talents you have no time to use many times SS.
I was last night in that group so i know what i'm talking about... the same about 3rd phase, guardians is going down so fast for that using of SS.Maybe it is useful when you are lucky and you are assigned as dmger to boss not to guardians
In any case, i prefer my talents (0 / 15 / 56) at any boss.

Which leads me to think that is 2nd T8 set bonus isn't gonna be that much effective, less steady shots-->less procs especially if there is internal CD for this set bonus to occur.

I'd like to point out that practical experiences aside, 'Best Possible DPS in Shandaras WotLK Spreadsheet' has Serpent Sting Glyph over Steady Shot or Hawk Glyph, and that is with a complete stand still 6/14/51 spec. The damage contribution of serpent sting glyph is far to great as it keeps ticking while you run, without having to waste a gcd on it more often. If that doesn't put the steady shot vs serpent sting glyph debate to rest, I don't know what will. And as we all know from practical Uldular experience we move around a lot, making Aimed Shot talent infinitely valuable. The question that bogs down on everyone s what to do with those last 5 points. Now unless you are a god of mana efficiency, one of those needs to go into thrill of the hunt to make it 2/3. I have had almost no mana problems with 2/3 TotH. I make a focus macro for viper sting on fights where I can use it, position myself in a place that I can easily fire it when I have the gcd available (in place of a steady shot). Also, my raid brings enough other people with replenishment I don't need to provide it.

Now at this point I go back to the spreadhseet and toy around with numbers. Both the BiS gear template and my current gear. You know what I found? Less than a 10 dps difference for the BiS gear, and a 1 dps difference for my current gear between 3 points in Improved Hawk and 3 points Improved Stings. To me Improved Stings sounds like the better option of the 2 since it will be far more consistent. So currently I'm using 0/18/53 and running top 1-3 dmg every fight in Uldular, and that's without Trap Mastery thanks to the input of the Trap Mastery vs Hawk Eye debate in this thread. My guild has downed every boss but Yog, so I have yet to see the full effectiveness of the spec on Yog and 'He Who Feeds on Your Tears'. I hope this information has been helpful and I would appreciate any further input to improve my dps.

Does anyone have any hard data on the 4pcT8 proc yet? The spreadsheet has it as 10%, is that based on testing, game data, or an assumption?

If it is a high proc chance with an ICD, then shooting less steadies overall shouldn't as much of a difference. If it's a low proc with no ICD then lowering steady frequency should make a bigger difference.

If I finish my 4pc tonight I will try and run some stats on a dummy chaining steadies to get some data.

What are people's opinions on Bandit's Insignia during General Vezax? We pulled him for the first time last night so may be going with different tactics later on, but for now I was jumping into the Shadow Crash zones to get double explosive shot damage and lower mana costs. The zone does affect the Bandit's Insignia proc, and given that it only shows as a ~15 dps downgrade from FotFF under normal circumstances, I *think* it's better than FotFF on this fight if you're able to stand in crash zones.

Although in spite of the crazy explosive shot damage and less time in viper, I'm having my doubts about whether chasing the zones around as much as I was last night is yielding a net gain in DPS anyway.

I always give casters priority on the Crashes so I rarely get in one. Bandit's shows as lower DPS than my FotFF so I don't think it's worth hoping to get a proc while in a Crash. FotFF affects Explosive anyway so it might end up evening out. I did make an effort to get into Crashes, even for a second or two, just to apply Serpent Sting (I was leaving it out of my regular rotation to try and conserve mana). I don't know if the damage bonus to the DoT continued after I wasn't in the Crash anymore, there was too much going on to check the tick's damage.