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Old 03/23/09, 3:58 PM   #1906
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Verasamor View Post
Basically I just want to know if its good for me to go MM for the Trueshot Aura, or if I am hurting the raid.
Does your raid have an enhancement shaman or a blood DK? Both of them provide the same AP bonus that trueshort aura gives. Until 3.1 survival is a significant damage benefit over marks so unless your raid has nobody else providing the buff you should stick with survival. If nobody is providing the buff, it is probably worth the damage loss unless your raid runs very physical dps light.

Just for a general idea, I checked my personal dps with and without the 10% AP buff and not having it amounts to about a 370dps loss. So it probably doesn't take many people in the raid benefitting from the buff before it's a net positive for the raid if nobody is already doing it.

Last edited by Rivkah : 03/23/09 at 4:07 PM.

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Old 03/23/09, 6:35 PM   #1907
Anindor
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Greymane
This may seem like a really basic survival question but I must not be seeing it. I've seen a lot of people saying they use ES-MS-ES-Arcane Shot for their LnL procs in order to let ES tic. I'm just wondering if there is a reason to not use ES-MS-ES-SS-ES (to make sure I use as many ES as possible without wasting an ES CD on Arcane). I've been a MM hunter since 3.0 (and can put up about 5200 on Patchwerk) but am very new to survival. But we need the replenishment on our 10man 3D runs so I'm speccing surv for that.

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Old 03/23/09, 6:39 PM   #1908
stickums
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Grizzly Hills
It's been gone over 100 times. The most DPS you can get out of a LnL proc is ES-pause 0.5-ES-pause 0.5-ES. That's it.

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Old 03/23/09, 6:40 PM   #1909
Smee
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Death Knight
 
Dentarg (EU)
If you have explosive shot in your spellbook, you then forget about arcane shot at all times. The idea of swapping an ES for an ArcS to allow it to tick is not a good practice.

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Old 03/23/09, 6:41 PM   #1910
noth
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Windrunner
It's there somewhere in the backlog, but OPTIMAL will be ES - wait 1/2 a second - ES - wait 1/2 a second - ES . I've NEVER seen anyone say to use an arcane in there at all. For what it's worth (and there's some back and forth in this) I'm specced into Aimed and use that instead of steady. If you can't handle the waiting, jam a 1.5 sec shot in the middle. SpS, re-marking, a steady if your haste is high enough, will keep you from clipping your ES, but it's not "optimal".

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Old 03/23/09, 6:43 PM   #1911
Faerdael
Piston Honda
 
Faerdael's Avatar
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Gilneas
Originally Posted by Anindor View Post
This may seem like a really basic survival question but I must not be seeing it. I've seen a lot of people saying they use ES-MS-ES-Arcane Shot for their LnL procs in order to let ES tic. I'm just wondering if there is a reason to not use ES-MS-ES-SS-ES (to make sure I use as many ES as possible without wasting an ES CD on Arcane). I've been a MM hunter since 3.0 (and can put up about 5200 on Patchwerk) but am very new to survival. But we need the replenishment on our 10man 3D runs so I'm speccing surv for that.
Don't use Arcane Shot ever for LnL. Even if you overwrite the last tick, its still double the damage to use ES over Arcane, almost triple if you dont overwrite it. Technically, ES - Aimed/Multi - ES - .5s wait - ES is the best damage you can yield, although slipping a steady in between isnt too bad for the timing challenged. Also, I will use Serpent in between if that has come off the mob. Aimed/Multi > Serpent > .5sec of nothing > Steady > ES spam > any use of Arcane for LnL filler.

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Old 03/23/09, 9:02 PM   #1912
Enova
Great Tiger
 
Enova's Avatar
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Moonglade (EU)
If you can get the hang of it, you can weave a Multi Shot between the first two ES and a Steady between the latter two. But, since LnL sometimes has the retarded habit of randomly proccing off the Serpent Sting just the second after you fire ES, that could eat up to 5 seconds of LnL duration, and leave you with very little time to pull that off properly. If you don't feel like you'll be able to pull it off, just overwrite one or two of the ticks on the first ES. There will never be any rush after the second ES.

Originally Posted by XI- View Post
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
Originally Posted by Kaubel View Post
You people are idiots
Guilty as charged ^

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Old 03/24/09, 1:40 PM   #1913
phantompoop
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Vek'nilash
crit formula

Originally Posted by CrowneVict View Post
If you fire 1000 auto shots at 50% crit... Law of averages says that (with talents + meta) it's the damage equivalent of:
1000+(1000*.5*1.33)=1665 shots worth of damage

Now, go to 60% crit:
1000+(1000*.6*1.33)=1798 shots ---> difference of 133

70% crit:
1000+(1000*.7*1.33)=1931 shots ---> difference of 133

80% crit:
1000+(1000*.8*1.33)=2064 shots ---> difference of 133

Looks pretty linear to me, unless my logic is flawed. I'm no mathematician, but this seemed like a quick and easy way to tell exactly what crit looks like as it increase...

EDIT: Which would indicate no DR. More is always a good thing?
are you including hit in this theory?

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Old 03/24/09, 1:43 PM   #1914
Sartuk
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Eredar
Originally Posted by phantompoop View Post
are you including hit in this theory?
Most hunters I know of are hit capped, so that shouldn't be an issue. Assuming they're not hit capped, the "crit cap" would only be an issue if they got past 92% crit anyway, which even with full raid buffs and BiS gear isn't realistic.

The crit cap could be (and is) a realistic issue for dual wielding classes who have to deal with a much larger +hit needed for their cap and have to deal with glancing blows. The "crit cap" for hunters, however, is never going to be an issue even if you have absolutely no +hit, simply because we don't have to deal with glancing blows.

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Old 03/24/09, 5:14 PM   #1915
Catalept
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Aman'Thul
Originally Posted by CrowneVict View Post
If you fire 1000 auto shots at 50% crit... Law of averages says that (with talents + meta) it's the damage equivalent of:
1000+(1000*.5*1.33)=1665 shots worth of damage

Now, go to 60% crit:
1000+(1000*.6*1.33)=1798 shots ---> difference of 133

70% crit:
1000+(1000*.7*1.33)=1931 shots ---> difference of 133

80% crit:
1000+(1000*.8*1.33)=2064 shots ---> difference of 133

Looks pretty linear to me, unless my logic is flawed. I'm no mathematician, but this seemed like a quick and easy way to tell exactly what crit looks like as it increase...

EDIT: Which would indicate no DR. More is always a good thing?
When people say that crit has diminishing returns, they mean that relative to your current DPS, each extra point offers an increasingly smaller gain. I suspect a some people's intuition is telling them then the gain tends to zero as the stat approaches its cap... which is not true. IMO, the concept of diminishing returns is only really useful when dealing with chance-to-proc buffs like Expose Weakness and Frenzy.

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Old 03/25/09, 6:24 AM   #1916
 Tobin
Captain Slow
 
Tobin's Avatar
 
Pandaren Hunter
 
Elune
Originally Posted by Frelian View Post
There are no single macro's for the Survival shot rotation but you can use TWO different macros to achieve the same dps.

Right now I have a macro with steady shot on my up mouse wheel and a macro with Explosive shot on my down mouse wheel.

So up is Steady, Kill, Explosive, Aimed, Serpent sting, Kill command.

And Down is Aimed, Kill, Explosive, Kill Command.

When you see Explosive shot cooldown you rotate the wheel down and wait the proper time if L&L
How do you accomplish this without resorting to castsequence or castrandom, both of which are not ideal. I add kill shot to every one of my shots because they can fire simultaneously, but that's about it.

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Old 03/25/09, 7:05 AM   #1917
Starfox
King Hippo
 
Starfox's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Destromath (EU)
Originally Posted by CrowneVict View Post
If you fire 1000 auto shots at 50% crit... Law of averages says that (with talents + meta) it's the damage equivalent of:
1000+(1000*.5*1.33)=1665 shots worth of damage

Now, go to 60% crit:
1000+(1000*.6*1.33)=1798 shots ---> difference of 133

70% crit:
1000+(1000*.7*1.33)=1931 shots ---> difference of 133

80% crit:
1000+(1000*.8*1.33)=2064 shots ---> difference of 133

Looks pretty linear to me, unless my logic is flawed. I'm no mathematician, but this seemed like a quick and easy way to tell exactly what crit looks like as it increase...

EDIT: Which would indicate no DR. More is always a good thing?
You mix up linear scaling with diminishing returns, for example avoidance stats (dodge/parry/-hit) have diminishing returns.
In your example 1% crit always gives 1000*0.01*1.33 = 13.3 damage, no matter how much crit you have as long as you are not at 100%. You can't get more linear.
There are things that suffer DR from crit, but those are uptimes of Hunting Party/Master Tactician/Expose Weakness where your first few crit% push the uptime in the high 80-90% marks and with raidbuffs those are up 100% pretty much.

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Old 03/25/09, 1:59 PM   #1918
desseb
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Kilrogg
I haven't seen this recently, but has anyone done the math on the uptime of 1/3 expose weakness? I avg 60-70% crit on ES/AS so I'm wondering if I could afford to go down to 1/3 EW. I'm finding that I can't put a point in imp aoth if I go with TM/resource if I want 1 point in HP with the ptr talent tree.

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Old 03/25/09, 2:13 PM   #1919
alienangel
Bald Bull
 
alienangel's Avatar
 
Draenei Hunter
 
Eredar
Originally Posted by desseb View Post
I haven't seen this recently, but has anyone done the math on the uptime of 1/3 expose weakness? I avg 60-70% crit on ES/AS so I'm wondering if I could afford to go down to 1/3 EW. I'm finding that I can't put a point in imp aoth if I go with TM/resource if I want 1 point in HP with the ptr talent tree.
Fairly sure the spreadsheet's calculations tab has the estimated uptime for EW based on how many points you have in it and other relevant factors.

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Old 03/26/09, 12:34 AM   #1920
Aeson
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Cenarion Circle
Hey guys I was trying to run some numbers, and I can't figure out the best rotation is in 3.1 and if Serpent Sting is even worth it anymore. Because of the addition of Black Arrow it will mean less Steadyshots which are currently being buffed by Serpent Sting with the glyph. What would the recommended shot setup look like under ideal conditions.

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