Does anyone have a Survival shot rotation macro for survival available for us??? Are we going to need several macros to meet the needs of the L&L procs???
Hello, does anyone know if the Glyph: Serpent Sting is still being changed to 6s? I just looked on MMO Champ and they only had the Deterrence Glyph change there.
This would be a great buff to Survival hunters in general and I hope it isn't scrapped.
Does anyone have a Survival shot rotation macro for survival available for us??? Are we going to need several macros to meet the needs of the L&L procs???
I think if you look in the macro thread, you might find some tips. I'm currently playing around with this (minus the sound / error disable, since I can never remember that off the top of my head):
It should alternate ES / SS whenever LnL is up, which is the lazy way of doing it for now. Pretty basic, but effective. Might be better ones out there, but I haven't done much testing yet.
Rather than addressing the limited bag space discussions by transforming weapons, is it reasonable to guess the new ammo icons to be one of the new "fun changes" that GC has been harping about? Perhaps the ammo itself is changing into different types of arrows/bullets that do added damage? I.E., the "green" arrow icon may indicate ammo with added Nature or poison damage, others may include more Arcane or Fire damage...
I may be completely off-base with my suppositions, but if this were the case could certain types of ammo account for the dps re-balancing with Ulduar?
Yes, that is what I think it will be.
And that these pictures might be icons for those new ammunition types.
However, they could also be bomb like things for daily quests, icons for some vehicle abilities and many many more things.
Also note that while there are 4 different arrow icons, there's 3 for bullets and 2 weird bullet ones.
I think if you look in the macro thread, you might find some tips. I'm currently playing around with this (minus the sound / error disable, since I can never remember that off the top of my head):
It should alternate ES / SS whenever LnL is up, which is the lazy way of doing it for now. Pretty basic, but effective. Might be better ones out there, but I haven't done much testing yet.
Ive been playing around with the macro below, but dno if its optimal, ES dont fire when the CD is ready, sometimes it squeeze in an extra SS or two before casting ES.. dno :o
Does anyone have a Survival shot rotation macro for survival available for us??? Are we going to need several macros to meet the needs of the L&L procs???
This is what I use exclusively, works fantastic in raids. Applies a sting to each new target and all you have to do is tap shift to fire another sting. When I catch it, I manually fire an Arcane or a Steady when L&L procs.
If what you want to do is maximize your dps you really wont be getting results from any macro that forces explosive or steady shot in a set order or priority.
The "rotation" is too fluid as SV and it requires adaptation on the fly to deal with LnL procs and keep serpent ticking optimally. Add in trap force-procs and you just can't rely on a macro to do your job for you.
I've seen referenced here and there in the thread that people use LnL procs to shoot an ES and an AS, what's the reasoning behind this? Wouldn't it be more dps to shoot two consecutive Explosive Shots?
If what you want to do is maximize your dps you really wont be getting results from any macro that forces explosive or steady shot in a set order or priority.
The "rotation" is too fluid as SV and it requires adaptation on the fly to deal with LnL procs and keep serpent ticking optimally. Add in trap force-procs and you just can't rely on a macro to do your job for you.
OK, so that being said, I'm using a G15 keyboard and have relied on binding my macros to my G keys. I don't have a problem hand clicking my shots, but I was wondering if you've developed a shot rotation that will help me do the most effective DPS if I'm not using macros???
Sorry to be a noob.. maybe I've just been spoiled by BM for too long.
I've seen referenced here and there in the thread that people use LnL procs to shoot an ES and an AS, what's the reasoning behind this? Wouldn't it be more dps to shoot two consecutive Explosive Shots?
An immediate second explosive shot would prevent the first one from ticking it's dot component.
...I was wondering if you've developed a shot rotation that will help me do the most effective DPS if I'm not using macros???
This is how I've got it set up:
Steady shot macro that includes kill command, kill shot and (because I've still been noticing an odd tendency to chain extra claws instead of rake when it's off CD) a forced /cast rake. With the coming 15 second CD on kill shot I might remove it from the steady macro to ensure it pops every cooldown.
Serpent has it's own key and so does explosive.
Basically as SV it's more of a priority system than a set rotation like marks or bm.
Explosive Shot should be used every time it's off its normal cooldown. How to deal with lock and load procs is still being discussed a bit on these forums, single target on live I've been alternating steadies/serpent refreshes with ES, but some PTR numbers have suggested that just waiting an extra half second between each explosive shot, or even overwriting the last tick might yield better dps.
Serpent should be up as much as possible without interfering with explosives for a number of reasons, LnL, noxious stings, steadyshot glyph.
Now on live, the rest of your empty GCDs are filled with steady shots but once the nerf goes through aimed shot might be better to use when possible, assuming your spec picks it up.
At 20% or below kill shot ranks above steady aimed and serpent but behind explosive after ptr goes live.
If you'll be trap dancing replacing steadies with immo traps would be ideal but the cooldown wont always line up properly.
Trap dancing doesn't change anything else in the priorities, except bring the problem of working with LnL procs to even more significance.
I calculated these until I got an explosive directly after the trap, which would signify a pattern.
0/3 in resourcefulness, the pattern was every 30 seconds, with a trap frequency of 30 seconds, with 6 explosive shots for an average explosive shot frequency of 1 every 5 seconds
1/3 in resourcefulness, the pattern was every 85.5 seconds, with a trap frequency of 28.5 seconds, with 17 explosive shots for an average explosive frequency of 1 every 5.029 seconds.
2/3 in resourcefulness, the pattern was every 54 seconds, with a trap frequency of 27 seconds, with 11 explosive shots for an average explosive frequency of 1 every 4.909 seconds.
3/3 in resourcefulness, the pattern was every 24 seconds, with a trap frequency of 24 seconds, with 5 explosive shots for an average explosive frequency of 1 every 4.8 seconds.
What stood out to me the most was that 1/3 resourcefulness reduced the amount of explosive shots the hunter did over time when using traps on cooldown.
Shouldn't the mana cost reduction as it relates to less time spent in AotV be factored in with any analysis on the value of resourcefulness?
60% off the cost of Immo Trap is significant, isn't it?
Shouldn't the mana cost reduction as it relates to less time spent in AotV be factored in with any analysis on the value of resourcefulness?
60% off the cost of Immo Trap is significant, isn't it?
It could, but I've never had mana problems on live so I didn't factor that in. The amount it helps would also depend heavily on raid composition, kill times, and current gear level.
In my personal experience on the PTR and from what others have said, mana really isn't a problem for survival, trap dancing or not. Granted, immo trap does cost a fair bit of mana, but that shouldn't effect your viper time, especially in a raid setting.
On the PTR in a 25 man raid, Explosive is the best DPS spec for a Hunter, by far (I have concrete numbers backing this up). It's just ridiculously good. 15% scaling with reasonable reduction on the static damage should bring the spec into line.
Were you able to find a neutral zone (on stationary fights) where you could lay a trap and shoot without having to 'dance?'
During maintenance today, I decided to really find the value of resourcefulness. These numbers of course assume being haste capped and that running in and dropping an immolation trap won't affect your shot rotation(it's another shot basically). Other assumptions include no procs from serpent sting and when a LnL procced, the hunter would use alternate explosives and steady shots. Because of these assumptions, this is inherently not perfectly accurate.
I calculated these until I got an explosive directly after the trap, which would signify a pattern.
0/3 in resourcefulness, the pattern was every 30 seconds, with a trap frequency of 30 seconds, with 6 explosive shots for an average explosive shot frequency of 1 every 5 seconds
1/3 in resourcefulness, the pattern was every 85.5 seconds, with a trap frequency of 28.5 seconds, with 17 explosive shots for an average explosive frequency of 1 every 5.029 seconds.
2/3 in resourcefulness, the pattern was every 54 seconds, with a trap frequency of 27 seconds, with 11 explosive shots for an average explosive frequency of 1 every 4.909 seconds.
3/3 in resourcefulness, the pattern was every 24 seconds, with a trap frequency of 24 seconds, with 5 explosive shots for an average explosive frequency of 1 every 4.8 seconds.
What stood out to me the most was that 1/3 resourcefulness reduced the amount of explosive shots the hunter did over time when using traps on cooldown.
Sorry, but I don't really understand. From what you show, 3/3 Resourcefulness should be the best since 1 Explosive every 4.8 seconds is your most frequent result and since ES is our most powerful shot, we would want to fire it as much as possible (without overriding charges.) Am I thinking correctly or are you showing that another rank of Resourcefulness performs better?
Were you able to find a neutral zone on stationary fights) where you could lay a trap and shoot without having to 'dance?'
Someone mentioned that they could stand at min range and lay down a trap and have it fire off. It sounds great, but then a little odd since we're technically supposed to be "ranged," we'd pretty much be a melee class if that were the only way to do viable dps.
Originally Posted by Æthien
Also note that while there are 4 different arrow icons, there's 3 for bullets and 2 weird bullet ones.
That is true. It is a little disheartening. But someone had a nice thought in a different thread, those first couple strange looking icons could possible be an ammo belt or bandolier (seeing as that's what they look like), and like the current key ring, would take up a separate area and hold the different types of ammo. Or maybe we're getting a grenade launcher... or maybe not.
Originally Posted by Arinnah
Rather than addressing the limited bag space discussions by transforming weapons, is it reasonable to guess the new ammo icons to be one of the new "fun changes" that GC has been harping about? Perhaps the ammo itself is changing into different types of arrows/bullets that do added damage? I.E., the "green" arrow icon may indicate ammo with added Nature or poison damage, others may include more Arcane or Fire damage...
I may be completely off-base with my suppositions, but if this were the case could certain types of ammo account for the dps re-balancing with Ulduar?
Bag space aside, I think this whole "elemental" ammo idea is pretty crazy. I support it, of course , but that is also cause for concern. GC made mention of rebalancing after 3.1 and if these ammo types are actually available, our dps would potentially skyrocket. If the vulnerabilities worked anything like those mobs back in classic BWL with the shifting types, we'd deserve it. My arcane shot pretty much quintupled (maybe an exaggeration, I don't remember too well, I just know it was a significant amount) in damage when they changed to (I think) nature mode. But, as I said, it's cause for concern because if we get rebalanced around these elemental ammo numbers, then our dps on mobs without these vulnerabilities and in pvp would most likely get hit hard. Then again, perhaps the elemental portion of the ammo might just be minimal to balance out the scaling... but if that's the case, then why the need for a rebalance?
These images and the subsequent speculation is getting complicated and more and more fantastical.
Just a thought on trap dancing: on more mobile encounters or when its hard to judge the neutral zone due to boss size/hit box, in which you have to run in to drop the trap, wouldn't a "butt blink" i.e turn away from the boss and disengage into it, be quicker than running? Since once LnL procs, you can jump shoot ES>Arcane/Aimed>ES, disengage seems like a wasted CD to gain distance in this case IMO.
This idea definitely does not lend itself too well against the "trap dancing not designed as intended" argument :P
Just a thought on trap dancing: on more mobile encounters or when its hard to judge the neutral zone due to boss size/hit box, in which you have to run in to drop the trap, wouldn't a "butt blink" i.e turn away from the boss and disengage into it, be quicker than running? Since once LnL procs, you can jump shoot ES>Arcane/Aimed>ES, disengage seems like a wasted CD to gain distance in this case IMO.
This idea definitely does not lend itself too well against the "trap dancing not designed as intended" argument :P
I believe the biggest problem with using disengage to move away from the boss is that it throws you too far.
Assuming you want to again lay a trap 30 seconds later, you now have to run more yards to get within trap range.
Last edited by Kkyle : 01/06/09 at 10:50 PM.
Reason: Spelling Error
I believe the biggest problem with using disengage to move away from the boss is that it throws you too far.
Assuming you want to again lay a trap 30 seconds later, you now have to run more yards to get within trap range.
I think he's refering to using it to get into trap range though (ie. turn around and disengage yourself towards the boss), instead of the normal thought of using it to get back to range, since after you drop the trap, you'll be using instants for the next 4 GCD's anyway (once LnL procs), so you'll have plenty of time to be running back out again.
And given its on a 25 sec CD, it'll be up again before your trap CD is.
If it ain't broke, don't screw with it. If you already screwed with it, blame someone else.
Originally Posted by Sthellesta View Post
During maintenance today, I decided to really find the value of resourcefulness. These numbers of course assume being haste capped and that running in and dropping an immolation trap won't affect your shot rotation(it's another shot basically). Other assumptions include no procs from serpent sting and when a LnL procced, the hunter would use alternate explosives and steady shots. Because of these assumptions, this is inherently not perfectly accurate.
I calculated these until I got an explosive directly after the trap, which would signify a pattern.
0/3 in resourcefulness, the pattern was every 30 seconds, with a trap frequency of 30 seconds, with 6 explosive shots for an average explosive shot frequency of 1 every 5 seconds
1/3 in resourcefulness, the pattern was every 85.5 seconds, with a trap frequency of 28.5 seconds, with 17 explosive shots for an average explosive frequency of 1 every 5.029 seconds.
2/3 in resourcefulness, the pattern was every 54 seconds, with a trap frequency of 27 seconds, with 11 explosive shots for an average explosive frequency of 1 every 4.909 seconds.
3/3 in resourcefulness, the pattern was every 24 seconds, with a trap frequency of 24 seconds, with 5 explosive shots for an average explosive frequency of 1 every 4.8 seconds.
What stood out to me the most was that 1/3 resourcefulness reduced the amount of explosive shots the hunter did over time when using traps on cooldown.
Sorry, but I don't really understand. From what you show, 3/3 Resourcefulness should be the best since 1 Explosive every 4.8 seconds is your most frequent result and since ES is our most powerful shot, we would want to fire it as much as possible (without overriding charges.) Am I thinking correctly or are you showing that another rank of Resourcefulness performs better?
The point Sthellesta is making with that comment is that 1/3 Resourcefulness is WORSE than 0/3 but both 2/3 and 3/3 are better with 3/3 being best.
If what you want to do is maximize your dps you really wont be getting results from any macro that forces explosive or steady shot in a set order or priority.
The "rotation" is too fluid as SV and it requires adaptation on the fly to deal with LnL procs and keep serpent ticking optimally. Add in trap force-procs and you just can't rely on a macro to do your job for you.
I think you're a little confused as to why people use macros. No macro ever written could "do your job for you" regardless of your spec/class. Unless of course you know of a macro you could spam that will move you out of aoe, feign when needed, MD the tank(s) when appropriate, etc...
What a macro can do is let you spend more time focusing on encounters than on CDs. In fact, I think survival would be the spec we'd find a shot rotation macro the most useful. MM and BM don't really need one. I say this because if you know that you want to get an ES followed by 2 steadys and an ES (I'm not saying this is a viable rotation, just using it to illustrate) every time you get an LnL proc then you would be well advised to have a macro with that rotation in it.
Has anyone used Proculus in conjunction with a SV build to watch for LnL procs? I was playing SV last night to get a feel for it and that seemed to be my biggest problem. I didn't get a chance to try the addon after I found it.
I know another addon was mentioned somewhere on the forums but for the life of me I can't find where it was brought up. Is there possibly another addon people are using for proc warnings?
01/06/09, 12:27 PM
, but that is also cause for concern. GC made mention of rebalancing after 3.1 and if these ammo types are actually available, our dps would potentially skyrocket. If the vulnerabilities worked anything like those mobs back in classic BWL with the shifting types, we'd deserve it. My arcane shot pretty much quintupled (maybe an exaggeration, I don't remember too well, I just know it was a significant amount) in damage when they changed to (I think) nature mode. But, as I said, it's cause for concern because if we get rebalanced around these elemental ammo numbers, then our dps on mobs without these vulnerabilities and in pvp would most likely get hit hard. Then again, perhaps the elemental portion of the ammo might just be minimal to balance out the scaling... but if that's the case, then why the need for a rebalance?
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