The Survival Hunter in WotLK - Page 157

Gaahl · 04/18/09, 8:18 PM

Originally Posted by Rokh

I'm still seeing Glyph of Steady Shot, Glyph of Kill Shot, and Glyph of Serpent Sting coming out ahead of Glyph of Explosive Shot in the spreadsheet. Anyone else?

For my current setup, Explosive, Kill and Steady are best, slightly ahead of Explosive, Kill and Serpent, which I decided to use anyway. Swapping Explosive for steady is a clear drop in dps for me on the sheet.

Catcher6250 · 04/19/09, 2:57 AM

Sorry, I need some clarification on this:

Haste is our #1 talent we want until we get to 522.7 haste rating?

Neruse · 04/19/09, 3:24 AM

^
Definitely not. Known BiS T8.25 gear actually has less haste than T7.25.

Catcher6250 · 04/19/09, 3:28 AM

Originally Posted by Neruse

^
Definitely not. Known BiS T8.25 gear actually has less haste than T7.25.

Are you sure, on the first page the guy lists Haste as #1.

Skybluesky · 04/19/09, 4:12 AM

Originally Posted by Catcher6250

Are you sure, on the first page the guy lists Haste as #1.

Even though (in this thread's first message) haste is listed first in a series of attributes relevant to survival hunters, nowhere does the author suggest it is of first importance, consistent with the majority of informed options that follow.

fahartle · 04/19/09, 12:04 PM

I've been reading about the debate between taking Aimed Shot or a third point in Hunting Party. Could someone tell me why a second point in Go for the Throat isn't viable? Based on the dps values per skill posted by Pyroblade on 4/14, it looks like GftT would generate much larger dps figures. Is it a problem of pets not being able to dump rage quickly enough giving all the crits you're getting?

Pyroblade's figures:
7011.77 total DPS
Improved Tracking- 276.17 (55.234 dps/point)
Trap Mastery- 64.63 (21.543 dps/p)
Survival Instincts- 111.17 (55.585 dps/p)
Survivalist- 35.27 (7.054 dps/p)
TNT- 157.25 (52.417 dps/p)
Lock and Load- 419.26 (139.753 dps/p)
Hunter vs. Wild- 378.27 (126.09 dps/p)
Killer Instinct- 133.09 (44.363 dps/p)
Lightning Reflexes- 340.35 (68.07 dps/p)
Resourcefulness- 128.3 (42.77 dps/p)
Expose Weakness- 236.42 (118.21 dps/p)
Thrill of the Hunt- 50.41 (16.803 dps/p)
Master Tactician- 263.3 (52.66 dps/p)
Noxious Stings- 161.09 (53.7 dps/p)
Black Arrow- 763.97
Sniper Training- 242.05 (80.68 dps/p)
Hunting Party- 52 (26 dps/p)
Explosive Shot- 1992.81
Lethal Shots- 222.73 (44.546 dps/p)
Careful Aim- 323.19 (107.73 dps/p)
Mortal Shots- 405.56 (81.112 dps/p)
Go for the Throat- 383.46
Aimed Shot- 23.94

Zigazaha · 04/19/09, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by fahartle

I've been reading about the debate between taking Aimed Shot or a third point in Hunting Party. Could someone tell me why a second point in Go for the Throat isn't viable? Based on the dps values per skill posted by Pyroblade on 4/14, it looks like GftT would generate much larger dps figures. Is it a problem of pets not being able to dump rage quickly enough giving all the crits you're getting?

Pyroblade's figures:
7011.77 total DPS
Improved Tracking- 276.17 (55.234 dps/point)
Trap Mastery- 64.63 (21.543 dps/p)
Survival Instincts- 111.17 (55.585 dps/p)
Survivalist- 35.27 (7.054 dps/p)
TNT- 157.25 (52.417 dps/p)
Lock and Load- 419.26 (139.753 dps/p)
Hunter vs. Wild- 378.27 (126.09 dps/p)
Killer Instinct- 133.09 (44.363 dps/p)
Lightning Reflexes- 340.35 (68.07 dps/p)
Resourcefulness- 128.3 (42.77 dps/p)
Expose Weakness- 236.42 (118.21 dps/p)
Thrill of the Hunt- 50.41 (16.803 dps/p)
Master Tactician- 263.3 (52.66 dps/p)
Noxious Stings- 161.09 (53.7 dps/p)
Black Arrow- 763.97
Sniper Training- 242.05 (80.68 dps/p)
Hunting Party- 52 (26 dps/p)
Explosive Shot- 1992.81
Lethal Shots- 222.73 (44.546 dps/p)
Careful Aim- 323.19 (107.73 dps/p)
Mortal Shots- 405.56 (81.112 dps/p)
Go for the Throat- 383.46
Aimed Shot- 23.94

The Reason only one point in GffT is taken is because once your crit is high enough it's all you need and that second point is of no value.
If you're starting out and you have around 30% crit or lower two points may be valuable to you.

Edit: I just checked your armory and your hit rating is 200 under the cap.
While i see that you have some frost resist gear on and a fishing pole i highly doubt your normal gear has 200 more hit on it.
For you it would be smart to spec into focused aim, the reason it isn't on this list is because this list assumes hit cap.
It would be best for you to take one point out of hunting party and two from trap mastery.
Also you have aspect of the hawk glyphed and you don't have any points into that talent, it would be smart for you to replace that with glyph of explosive shot if it's been discovered on your server.

Corbetti · 04/19/09, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by trueasitis

Before belittling someone take the time to see if he has microsoft works. If not he can't use the spread sheet.

Quite. There is far too much 'use the spreadsheet, noob'. If the response was, 'use one of the simulation tools, for example the excellent spreadsheet that has a thread of its own in this forum, or SimulationCraft, or Rawr' now that would be fair. Apologies for being off topic but I hope I've at least been clear, succinct, polite and -- since there must be 20 posts saying absolutely nothing but 'use the spreadsheet' -- added something useful to the discussion for the benefit of those without MS Excel.

Toxicus · 04/19/09, 6:06 PM

I have been using Rawr for some time now, and while the spreadsheet is extremely detailed, i have been using Rawr since before i had Excel, i believe its a great tool for those of you who do not have Excel and still want to tweak your characters! I don't know the regulations on posting outside links so if anyone wants to know the site name i'd be glad to respond to a PM! BTW, first post! Wanted to make sure i had something of worth to post!

Iru · 04/19/09, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by trueasitis

Before belittling someone take the time to see if he has microsoft works. If not he can't use the spread sheet.

Apropos of not much, the spreadsheet is known NOT to work with Microsoft Works. Microsoft Works != Microsoft Excel; the former doesn't have the full macro & VBA capabilities of the later.

mcam3113 · 04/19/09, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Nohj

Im looking for the best specc for 25 man ulduar raid hunter, if i could get a hunter that deals over 5k dps to post their specc/shot rotation i would LOVE to compare mine. I deal about 4.5K in raids and im not sure what i may be missing with the new patch and talents. with Black arrow added in i want to make sure im doing the right rotation

Heres my armory:The World of Warcraft Armory

Rotation so far: I put up a Black arrow, explosive shot, multi shot, serpent sting, SS, repeat. this is all while we bloodlust i hit my orcish racial as in on kologarn when killing the right arm first you can dps freely without aggro problems - this is where i use this rotation most. after bloodlust wears off i hit rapid fire.

The World of Warcraft Armory

6.3k on XT-002, 5.9 on Kologorn (no pet on Kolo) both 10man
Buffs at the time were kings, might, Gift of the Wild, blackend dragonfin, flask of endless rage.

(kill command before encounter even begins)
Rapidfire
Blackarrow
Explosion shot
Multi shot
serpent sting
steadyshot

only issue with my spec is the fact that in 10mans i tend to go oom. 25mans im solid on mana

Girthbot · 04/20/09, 2:35 AM

Originally Posted by Gaahl

For my current setup, Explosive, Kill and Steady are best, slightly ahead of Explosive, Kill and Serpent, which I decided to use anyway. Swapping Explosive for steady is a clear drop in dps for me on the sheet.

With the new 2 piece being a bonus to Serpent, won't that make the Serpent glyph better? If so, is it enough to overtake Steady?

Gaahl · 04/20/09, 5:14 AM

Originally Posted by Girthbot

With the new 2 piece being a bonus to Serpent, won't that make the Serpent glyph better? If so, is it enough to overtake Steady?

The difference between the two with my gear at the moment is about 2 DPS in favor of the Steady Glyph. My decision to take Serpent is based more on the idea that it gives my rotation a little breathing room. The benefit of the Serpent Glyph is less direct than the Steady Shot 10% increase, but I probably fire Steady much less than the rotation on the spreadsheet suggests because I'm not that efficient and Steady is what gets dropped if something doesn't fit. With T8 I imagine this will still be the case for me, so I'll probably keep that glyph unless the spreadsheet is showing something more significant. I would suggest trying the spreadsheet or something similar to see what works best for you.

OMGLAWLZ · 04/20/09, 5:40 AM

I think one of the major benefits of having the SrS glyph is that Serpent Sting rolls off just as BA does, assuming you've got Resourcefullness and firing BA first. It just makes the rotation that much tighter and easier to keep track of, at least for me.

• missalaire · 04/20/09, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Kharthus

You don't need 3 pts in EW. Move one pt into GffT. That's the spec I'm currently running.

I'm currently using ES > BA > SrS > MS. This is based on spreadsheet and SimCraft testing. It also uses the theory of highest dmg/shot.

Be nice to see actual testing from people with the various rotations to validate/refine the models.

Have you tested other shot rotations besides that ES > BA > SrS > MS with spreadsheet and SimCraft testing? Namely what seems to be the damage multiplier rotation (BA > SrS > ES > MS/Steady). I'm pretty sure I understand the theory of highest dmg/shot, but recently have come into debate with another hunter in my guild over which shot rotation (he is supporting the damage multiplier rotation vs Kharthus' rotation which I use) yields more dps. Has anyone else done any testing between these two rotations and can share observations and comparisons?

If it helps in any way, I am 0/15/56 survival specced using Glyphs of Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting, and Kill Shot. Any insight, spreadsheets, and/or mathematics done on this would be very helpful, thanks.