The Survival Hunter in WotLK - Page 176

mako · 05/06/09, 1:18 PM

Originally Posted by alienangel

Straying even further off topic, but no, this doesn't appear to be the case, so long as the people in melee are careful about always being very close to him (even slightly more than 5 yards for hunters to shoot appears to count as "too far" since I know I've been crashed from that range) - there's a video floating around of a guild (Exodus EU?) apparently doing just this, with one person outside the clump conveniently positioning each crash for the tank to back into.

We should continue in PMs I guess if you want me to try to dig up the video.

edit: or are you saying he has been hotfixed to do as you say? I can see it being an approach to the fight Blizzard may want to discourage. And given that I haven't seen this strat done myself, I really should shut up about it I suppose.

Shadow crash was fixed to target melee if there are not enough at range at the same time it was made to not lower energy/rage/runic power(?) costs.

Ozoko · 05/06/09, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by Korghal

Hello you all.
I've been reading here for a while, and I have learned that most hunters seem to aim towards having 4 T8 for the set-bonus. Although this is the part I cannot understand. In my eyes, this set bonus is not that good.

600 AP for 15 seconds, with a 45 second internal cooldown gives an average AP bonus of 200. (600 * 15 / 45).

But when you click the effect on Wowhead, it states 10% proc chance. (Item - Hunter T8 4P Bonus - Spell - World of Warcraft)

10% means 1 out of ten. It could take one Steady Shot or ten, or any in between. Average required Steady Shots are 5.

5 * GCD (1.5) = 7.5 seconds. So if I were to only use Steady Shot after the internal CD is gone, the proc would occur every 45 + 7.5 = 52.5 seconds.

600 * 15 / 52.5 = 171 AP.

And if we factor in that we are using other spells besides Steady Shot, the equation becomes so much more complex it's almost impossible to provide an exact answer, since we do not have a rotation but a prioritize based "rotation" rather.
So if we average out the procc to occur once every minute instead we gain 150 AP (600 * 15 / 60).

So my point is:
If we move away from the T8 parts with haste (keeping head and chest), should we not be able to compensate these 150 AP by better itemization? Or atleast come so close that it is "worth" more due to not being situational?

Am I missing some great clue here, because at the moment I am unsure whether I will be using 4 parts T8.

I also wondered this as alot of fights have alot of movement so your reducing your chances at proccing it even further as you cant even use steady reliably.

Baower · 05/06/09, 2:38 PM

IIRC I am averaging 8-10% of my total damage in Steady Shots. I'll need to start watching actual number of shots but the 4pc bonus doesn't look all that useful to me.

2pc T8 Helm and Chest seem like the best options right now. I'll have to see if it's feasible to go T7 2pc with the other slots. Unfortunately there are some very nice upgrades in the leg and glove slots that may prevent keeping the T7 bonus.

*edit* T8 4pc may be what pushes MM over the top.

Aeson · 05/06/09, 2:42 PM

Well 2 piece T7 is 5% more pet damage which isn't a whole lot. if your pet is ~15% of your damage and the bonus increases his/her damage by 5% thats .15x.05= 0.75% damage for you overall.

Sulik · 05/07/09, 12:34 AM

Ok, just throwing this out there.

Mostly for those of us that have an extra few talent points to spend after configuring their setup... in regard to their own style/ raid comp.

Check the spreadsheet to see if by taking focused aim and switching your hit enchants/ gems you get a bigger dps gain than putting points into.. let's say IAotH or.. Improved stings ect..

I am taking from a thread response by Esoth when I say the following:

It might be better to increase your overall damage to all shots(by adding more agility/AP to your gear) then by increasing let's say auto shots and steadies alone.. ect ect

Please let me know if I am missing something.. because I tend to overlook certain things/situations

Rivkah · 05/07/09, 3:17 AM

Sulik in my experimentation with the spreadsheet I did find that moving talent points to the hit talents and getting more agil gems turned out to be a net gain in dps (compared to the weaker talents like hunting party, imp hawk, aimed shot and imp stings). That being said, if you look at the gear that drops in Ulduar, it tends to have gobs of hit on it. So it's unlikely to be of a lot of practical benefit longer term as you gear up, because you aren't going to really have a lot of spare hit gems and enchants on your gear to get rid of.

This is from my experience gearing as alliance since I tend to only gear for 7% hit (can always carry hit food if you don't get a draenei in your group). For horde maybe the hit isn't quite as overheavy and of course it would depend on which drops you end up with.

Pompies · 05/07/09, 4:40 AM

Hi all

I am new to these forums, and playing a hunter.
I recently (just before wotlk) rerolled servers and decided to give it a go.(I had a raiding Resto druid and rogue on old server)

I am hoping you could help me with this question.

I am taking my formulas from other posts etc and I hope they are right.I took a wws log parse from our last 25 man Naxx clear looking at myself and another guildie hunter, he is equiping Darkmoon card death and myself the Mirror of truth.

Mirror of truth
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 84 (1.83% @ L80).
Equip: Chance on melee and ranged critical strike to increase your attack power by 1000 for 10 secs.
Basically if I take that 14 ap =1dps (sv hunter)-

1000ap/14=71dpsX10secs=710 damage (unmodified)
this trinket has a 45sec internal cooldown

Darkmoon card death
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 85 (1.85% @ L80).
Equip: Each time you deal damage, you have a chance to do an additional 1750 to 2250 Shadow damage.

So basically its a one off damage.

Now if I look at the wws log Pelisaris had a combined total of 411 552 damage over the whole raid time with 122hits max crit 2 315
My mirror had the following uptime-
Reflection of Torment uptime 3 % total time 11'32'' total times up 69

If I take that time and multiply the previous dps I worked on, it is equal to 692secsX 71dps = 49132 damage total
If I add the 22 percent extra damage my pet gets of my ap my pet gets 10809 damage.
Thats a combined total of 50941.

Summary:
Peli got a total of 411552 minus my 50941 is a huge difference of 360611 damage over the raid.

I have got my hands on the deck and am hoping that you people could kindly correct me if I am wrong.
WWS log here:Wow Web Stats

Thanks in advance.

Rezdan · 05/07/09, 4:55 AM

Originally Posted by Pompies

<snip>
Mirror of truth
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 84 (1.83% @ L80).
Equip: Chance on melee and ranged critical strike to increase your attack power by 1000 for 10 secs.
Basically if I take that 14 ap =1dps (sv hunter)-

1000ap/14=71dpsX10secs=710 damage (unmodified)
this trinket has a 45sec internal cooldown

Darkmoon card death
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 85 (1.85% @ L80).
Equip: Each time you deal damage, you have a chance to do an additional 1750 to 2250 Shadow damage.

So basically its a one off damage.
<snip>

Sorry, Hunters are unfortunately not this simple. 14 AP does not directly translate to 1 dps. You may be thinking of 14 AP translating to 1 Weapon DPS.

I'd suggest that you learn to use the WotLK DPS Spreadsheet as this tool allows you to directly compare Hunter gear/talent/pet/etc configurations. The Hunter: PvE DPS in WotLK (Updated for 3.1) article may also be worth your time.

arlen · 05/07/09, 5:14 AM

Originally Posted by Sulik

Check the spreadsheet to see if by taking focused aim and switching your hit enchants/ gems you get a bigger dps gain than putting points into.. let's say IAotH or.. Improved stings ect..

I'm currently using 1 point in Focused Aim. The spreadsheet showed a dps loss for my current gear set if I used gems to get capped.

Pompies · 05/07/09, 6:08 AM

Originally Posted by Rezdan

Sorry, Hunters are unfortunately not this simple. 14 AP does not directly translate to 1 dps. You may be thinking of 14 AP translating to 1 Weapon DPS.

I'd suggest that you learn to use the WotLK DPS Spreadsheet as this tool allows you to directly compare Hunter gear/talent/pet/etc configurations. The Hunter: PvE DPS in WotLK (Updated for 3.1) article may also be worth your time.

My apolgies, I got that info from the Wow EU forums:World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> [Guide] Raiding as Survival
The third post by the author.

I am busy with the Dps spreadsheet as I type, but I am kind of a moron when it comes to Excel

Fukasa · 05/07/09, 8:17 PM

Originally Posted by Pompies

My apolgies, I got that info from the Wow EU forums:World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> [Guide] Raiding as Survival
The third post by the author.

I am busy with the Dps spreadsheet as I type, but I am kind of a moron when it comes to Excel

On the front page of the spreadsheet thread there is a link to a pretty useful tutorial on how to use it.

Here is the link...

How to use the DPS Spreadsheet! � OutDPS!

arlen · 05/07/09, 9:04 PM

The spreadsheet itself also comes with a How-to tab now.

Nedus · 05/08/09, 6:07 AM

Originally Posted by arlen

I'm currently using 1 point in Focused Aim. The spreadsheet showed a dps loss for my current gear set if I used gems to get capped.

Just remember, you can get hit from gear/gems/enchants, but you can never get talent points from gear.

Tharia · 05/08/09, 6:18 AM

Almost every spec has some weak talents where you can easily pull points from to put into FA, e.g Barrage, Hunting Party (if Replenishment is not needed). You gain lots of dps by gemming agi and specing FA instead of gemming hit in these examples.

arlen · 05/08/09, 6:40 AM

Originally Posted by Nedus

Just remember, you can get hit from gear/gems/enchants, but you can never get talent points from gear.

I realize that, but like I said, with my current gear if I got hit capped with gems/enchants I would lose DPS. I'd rather have a point in focused aim than lose DPS. Wouldn't you? That doesn't mean I'll always have a point in focused aim. When I get new gear, if the spreadsheet shows I gain DPS by getting hit capped with gems/enchants then I would. Each situation is different.