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Old 09/22/09, 11:22 PM   #3076
davepoobond
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Ner'zhul
It looks like they re-added the minimum range on Kill Shot again. During 3.2.1 there was no minimum range on it.

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Old 09/23/09, 3:48 AM   #3077
Peldin
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Vek'nilash
It looks like they re-added the minimum range on Kill Shot again. During 3.2.1 there was no minimum range on it.
Confirmed. I took the training dummy below 20% and ran up in melee range - was not able to use within 5 yards.

*edit* rest of my post pertains to MM. Swapping that information to the appropriate thread

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Old 09/23/09, 4:05 AM   #3078
Enova
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Moonglade (EU)
While I'm not particularly bothered by KS having a minimum range again, I was under the impression that they intended to remove it in the first place. Probably last minute developments on the PVP balance front again, I guess, and a blue acknowledgment post should clarify things.

Originally Posted by XI- View Post
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
Originally Posted by Kaubel View Post
You people are idiots
Guilty as charged ^

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Old 09/23/09, 8:07 AM   #3079
KraxisSingular
Banned
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Runetotem (EU)
I'm not even sure it is a PvP change since Hunters aren't exactly ruling the boards. And I believe there was a blue that once said something like they wanted it to be more dangerous to hug the Hunter. But, I'm not bothered since I don't PvP. I just think this was a 'streamlining' of skills since it wasn't mentioned and given previous intentions. I wouldn't be too surprised to see a reverse of this or something else added/changed.

I guess us PvE Hunters will lose an occational Kill Shot on bosses like Ignis or Auriaya, but that's about it.

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Old 09/23/09, 7:15 PM   #3080
davepoobond
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Ner'zhul
Also, anecdotal information, but I'm noticing less frequency on the Lock N Load procs.

Each Black Arrow cooldown would usually garner me one LnL proc typically, but now it seems like every other one.

Anyone else noticing it too?

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Old 09/23/09, 9:25 PM   #3081
alienangel
Bald Bull
 
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Draenei Hunter
 
Eredar
5 procs in 10 applications. Don't really have the patience to test it further right now - will be a shame if all the testing to determine procrate for 3.2 needs to be done again.

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Old 09/23/09, 10:16 PM   #3082
KraxisSingular
Banned
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Runetotem (EU)
I wouldn't be too surprised honestly.
The determined procrate didn't fit the talent's description. And even if the rate is halved it is still more than the talent says. I will keep an eye out the next days, though the bits I did tonight didn't seem to be different enough for me to notice. Granted I didn't do much as Survival tonight, but about half the rate would be noticeable rather fast. Maybe I was lucky.
Thanks for the headsup.

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Old 09/24/09, 2:23 PM   #3083
benisapha
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Zangarmarsh
Ran ten man TOC on tuesday, and LnL seemd to be procing less often, likely even slightly below 50% of black arrows.

Did not do further testing, as we are still working (wiping) on heroic 25 and that is keeping me busy.

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Old 09/24/09, 4:31 PM   #3084
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
I checked my logs for just boss data from the last two raid nights and I'm see 137 LnL procs from 966 BA ticks which is a 14% effective proc rate (obviously not correcting for the cooldown). Both of those include some Faction Champs kills where I get some extra LnL procs from slow traps, but they're not a significant portion of the data so it shouldn't be significantly off. I looked at my logs from the previous week and I don't have as much good data there (since we spent a good chunk of the week wiping on Freya 3) but from our 10 man I see 41 LnL procs out of 360 BA ticks, which is an 11.3% effective proc rate. So it could be I'm just having a good week, but I'm guessing that the rate hasn't changed. My simulations that I ran on the new LnL procrate when we were testing after 3.2 came out predicted effective LnL rates of 11-13% so these numbers are about what I'd expect.

On a side note, with the better version of the T9 2pc bonus equipped it looks like serpent sting priority should be above BA, at least with my current spec and gear setup.

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Old 09/25/09, 7:34 PM   #3085
Nandei
Von Kaiser
 
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Blood Elf Hunter
 
Moonglade (EU)
I too did a comparison of LnL procs per Black Arrow ticks pre- and post-patch. I used my own stats from this week's ToC and Ulduar runs, and last week's ToC runs, but did not include any Faction Champions fights, only the fights where just BA could have procced LnL. Got the following numbers:

Pre-3.2.2: total number of BA ticks: 1643, LnL procs: 211. Gives me a 12,8% effective proc rate.
Post-3.2.2: total number of BA ticks: 925, LnL procs: 106. 11,5% effective proc rate.

The results are same as Rivkah's, there seems to be no change in proc rate after 3.2.2. The difference is small enough to be just random luck.

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Old 09/25/09, 8:35 PM   #3086
Enova
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Moonglade (EU)
I was actually testing the LnL proc rate about a month ago, when I was still considering speccing Survival (again!). Given that I have actually written down the results, I tested BA again today. The results are fairly consistent with my IF dummy tests (5 sessions of 8 minutes of just spamming Autoshot and BA every cooldown, for simplicity).
Pre 3.2.2 I had an approximate of 13.2% LnL proc rate (66 procs out of 500 ticks)
Post 3.2.2 I had roughly 12.4% LnL proc rate (62 procs out of 500 ticks)

I didn't actually save the number of ticks for the first batch, just the proc rates tracked via an external addon and saved to notepad, so I decided to ignore the number of ticks today as well. However, if I remember correctly, it ticks every 3 seconds, so by reverse engineering. it should give me 500 ticks (give or take a couple) each test. The numbers are rounded to the nearest decimal, which probably means I didn't squeeze in exactly 500 ticks either time. Don't hold it against me, I wasn't sure I'd do it for posterity.

Originally Posted by XI- View Post
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
Originally Posted by Kaubel View Post
You people are idiots
Guilty as charged ^

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Old 09/26/09, 7:46 AM   #3087
rawboe
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Ysondre
this has always been the case, but with 2piece t9 its a bigger deal now, especially since the hotfix to the crit multiplier:

if you're fighting multiple mobs (worms in northrend beasts, anubarak adds etc), you should be applying serpent stings to targets other than the primary one whenever everything but steady is down, rather than steady shotting(assuming they need a refresh). With 2piece t9, serpent sting can do 2 to 4 times the damage of steady or more, depending on other things.

This can take some getting used to, but the damage difference is significant if you can get it down.

edit: while you're at it, you can target swap explosive shots during LnL to maximize every global, fulfilling the explosive shot spam wetdream that LnL always wanted to be. ;p

Last edited by rawboe : 09/26/09 at 7:57 AM.

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Old 09/26/09, 7:54 AM   #3088
rawboe
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Ysondre
Another thing, if you had any doubts about going down to 1 point in expose weakness, the 2 piece tier 9 puts them to rest. Serpent sting crits proc expose weakness. The 2 piece really is kind of amazingly good.

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Old 09/29/09, 10:21 AM   #3089
sabe
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Jubei'Thos
Originally Posted by rawboe View Post
this has always been the case, but with 2piece t9 its a bigger deal now, especially since the hotfix to the crit multiplier:

if you're fighting multiple mobs (worms in northrend beasts, anubarak adds etc), you should be applying serpent stings to targets other than the primary one whenever everything but steady is down, rather than steady shotting(assuming they need a refresh). With 2piece t9, serpent sting can do 2 to 4 times the damage of steady or more, depending on other things.

This can take some getting used to, but the damage difference is significant if you can get it down.

edit: while you're at it, you can target swap explosive shots during LnL to maximize every global, fulfilling the explosive shot spam wetdream that LnL always wanted to be. ;p
Excellent advice, I've been doing this since some time back as well when I got my hands on t9.

You can use a /cast [target=mouseover] Serpent Sting or Explosive Shot macro. To streamline this further, you can set your OT as focus and use the mouseover macro on your focustarget frame as well so you won't miss on fights like Anub'Arak where the mosueover area for the boss often blocks out the mouseover area for the adds.

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Old 09/29/09, 3:27 PM   #3090
Scraps
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Hunter
 
Skullcrusher
Kill Shot does indeed have a minimum range again. The good news is that it now properly matches the tooltip and is actually 5 yards as opposed to when it read 5, but was functionally 8 yards.

Regarding LnL procs, it does feel like it procs much less often but that is purely anecdotal at this point. The above stated math doesn't seem very conclusive either. 1% lower procrate? That doesn't seem like an intentional change. I feel like it has more to do with the cooldown.

I noticed that a trap proccing LnL still seems to be on a separate initial cooldown as Black Arrow ticks, but only if the trap procs first. For example, if a trap procs LnL, a Black Arrow tick can proc LnL again before the 22 second cooldown.

However, it still seems that Black Arrow's tick procs apply the cooldown to a trap proc, meaning if a Black Arrow procs LnL and I try to trap within 22 seconds, LnL will not proc.. With this in mind it may be advantageous to start a fight like FC with a Freezing Arrow placed near the mobs (this is what I do, anyway).

Can anyone else confirm this behavior?

"The only winning move is not to play." JOSHUA, Wargames

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