They're 2 completely different clauses of the talent. First of all it has an effect when Wyvern Sting is removed. Secondly, the talent grants you 3% dmg done when Serpent Sting is up. That second clause has nothing to do with Wyvern Sting.
I as well am preparing to be Survival-build from tomorrow on, but I've been wondering about about Noxious Stings. The line saying "...and increases all damage done by you on targets afflicted by your Serpent Sting by 1/2/3%."
Does this mean that I have to shoot Wyvern Sting, and then Serpent Sting? If so, would this talent be useless on bosses as they're immune to this sting, or will the damage still be increased?
Uh, no, it means that if your serpent sting is on a target (which it should be) then all damage generated by you (not your pet) is increased by 3%.
Which means that all those results posted with survival in the other thread would yield better dps if done again with cat instead of raptor? It's a shame that survival can't benefit from focused fire as it's +20% crit under kill command seems tailormade for raptor's savage rend.
Honestly? No. I think the spreadsheet would show it as it is atm, Raptors and Cats being extremely close, one way or the other. But the spreadsheet is about evening things out over the duration you set. So it takes the chance of Savage Rend proccing, and applies that percentage to the buff as an overall buff. That means you pet is being counted as having a permanent buff of X value. But we all know that that's not how it works.
I think the spreadsheet and a real world environment will have different results since the few Savage Rend procs can happen at very unfortunate times, like on Heigan transition, or when you have to pull your pet back from Flame Wall on Sarth. There's just too many factors weakening Savage Rend when it has a low procrate.
I as well am preparing to be Survival-build from tomorrow on, but I've been wondering about about Noxious Stings. The line saying "...and increases all damage done by you on targets afflicted by your Serpent Sting by 1/2/3%."
Does this mean that I have to shoot Wyvern Sting, and then Serpent Sting? If so, would this talent be useless on bosses as they're immune to this sting, or will the damage still be increased?
Noxious Stings has two distinct effects that are wholly unrelated to each other:
1) the dispell mechanic that it adds to Wyvern sting,
2) the free damage bonus that it adds to when Serpent Sting is up on your target.
The second is what makes it a worthwhile DPS talent for raiding. You can take it and benefit even if you never fire Wyvern Sting.
I'm also looking for a good macro to use. I've never been SV since I started playing about a year ago, so I've been trying to get myself up to speed as much as possible.
So I've read that the optimal rotation is SerpS, ES, Stdy, Stdy, ES and then reapply sting. But what about arcane? Shouldn't arcane be woven in there before you do ES again?
There are multiple ranks of explosive shot. Chances are you either might not have trained the appropriate ranks yet, or the rank 1 version shows in the talent tree.
I have 4438 AP and my Explosive Shot shows 1138-1226 damage (@ rank 4)
4438*.16+428 = 1138
Last edited by Kkyle : 01/20/09 at 7:43 PM.
Reason: Fixed Typo
There are multiple ranks of explosive shot. Chances are you either might not have trained the appropriate ranks yet, or the rank 1 version shows in the talent tree.
I have 4438 AP and my Explosive Shot shows 1138-1226 damage (@ rank 4)
4438*.16+428 = 1138
Must be rank 1 in the tree, gonna delete my post since yours is showing its correct. Thanks.
I'm also looking for a good macro to use. I've never been SV since I started playing about a year ago, so I've been trying to get myself up to speed as much as possible.
So I've read that the optimal rotation is SerpS, ES, Stdy, Stdy, ES and then reapply sting. But what about arcane? Shouldn't arcane be woven in there before you do ES again?
I was wondering, wouldn't be useless to spend points in T.N.T. if you know you are not going to be trap dancing?
This talent doesn't seem very viable to me...
Are you confusing T.N.T with Lock and Load? Lock and Load still provides a porc chance on Serpent Sting ticks (even with a higher chance than before), and besides, there isn't any other talent that's a viable alternative.
If you indeed mean T.N.T, there's still the 9% crit and stun chance, and as with Lock and Load, there isn't really any other talent you could spend the points in.
Are you confusing T.N.T with Lock and Load? Lock and Load still provides a porc chance on Serpent Sting ticks (even with a higher chance than before), and besides, there isn't any other talent that's a viable alternative.
If you indeed mean T.N.T, there's still the 9% crit and stun chance, and as with Lock and Load, there isn't really any other talent you could spend the points in.
I was indeed talking about TNT. But isn't the 9% crit only apllying if the target is afflicted by explosive trap or immolation trap only? Or does TNT just provide a free 9% crit to our explosive shots? I'm confused here O.o
I was thinking about switching to Survival with this new patch and I was wondering with the new change of Arcane shot(reduce mana cost) and the nerf of steady shot, is it a good idea to add it in the survival shot rotation?
I was thinking something like this: Serpent sting, explosive shot, arcane shot, steady shot
Does that make sence? I've never been Survival spec, so any advice would be appreciate, which glyph is the best etc...
I can tell you that in my modelling, 2/18/51 with Imp Stings and Aimed Shot in the rotation outperforms any spec with additional points in the BM tree.
Ah oki, I missed the part where someone said about the shared CD
Originally Posted by Iru
I can tell you that in my modelling, 2/18/51 with Imp Stings and Aimed Shot in the rotation outperforms any spec with additional points in the BM tree.
That seem interesting, i'm gonna try that, so your shot rotation is something like : Serpent sting, Explosive shot, Aimed shot, steady shot?
Can we get some WWS reports of survival on patchwerk to see what kind of real world raid figures are being pulled, I know some of us must have guilds that raid Tuesdays. And also I'm seeing a lot about aimed shot being woven into the surv rotation, can I get a layout of what that rotation might look like? Lastly right now as 51/20, I have 2 points in focused aim, aside from the supposed crit reduction bug and pets not getting transferred hit from FA, should getting hit cap without FA be my #1 priority to get those points back into imp AotH, cause it looks like I'm going to have to run 0/20/51 till I have the hit to get out of FA.
We don't have the WWS stat up yet, but with trap dancing (my first time trying it today) I pulled 4200 DPS on Patchwerk, where I hit 4900 DPS the week before as a 50/21 sole hunter with a cat.
Once I got my rotations down, I topped DPS on some fights, but the spreadsheet says I should be doing 5300 DPS full raid buffed. We were missing some raid buffs, and I was not flasked, and I'm trying the spec for the first time. I can probably move some points around, it's all testing as we have Naxx on 4 hour farm atm.
I tried getting LNL procs fro both traps and stings, and I will tell you that what we believe about sting procs is true: they are very inconsistent.
Modeling for my gear using the spreadsheet, Aimed shot was actually a DPS loss. I think it is pretty complex watching Aimed, Trap, Explosive, and Serpent CDs, as they do not over lap well, and you are always gonna end up extending a CD timer somewhere.
What was working best for me was running in, dropping a trap, and getting the LNL proc. Then I would disengage out and fire 3 Explosive shots, letting2 ticks off of the first 2, and getting 3 ticks on the last. Then I would fire the 21 second Serpent sting and go ahead and weave my Explosive / Steady mix. To get back closer to trapping range I would run in a bit when I fired each explosive shot, especially if I let of an auto shot right before. I never reapplied Serpent sting till after the LNL proc, since I did not want to to accidentally get eaten up, and firing it after I got my 3 LNL shots off let me slip in serpent sting for the duration in which I would be firing Steady the most.
I know I would not be getting the 3 percent damage increase on the Explosive LNL proc shots, but at this time, I was just trying to come up with a rotation manageable enough to pay attention to the fight as well.
I was trying surv for the first time a dummy with aimed in my rotation and it's really really tricky to keep an eye on ES cd, AS/SS uptime. If it was so difficult on a dummy, I don't think I'll do any better in a raid environment where it's important to keep an eye on what's going on around me.
Is there any addons or something that people use to help them with their AS - SrpSt - ES - Steady rotation?
That seem interesting, i'm gonna try that, so your shot rotation is something like : Serpent sting, Explosive shot, Aimed shot, steady shot?
Which glyphs are u using?
Prioritise Explosive and Aimed over Serpent but yet, that's pretty much it. Weave Kill Shot in there once your target is below 20%.
Glyphs are Steady Shot, Serpent Sting, and Aspect of the Hawk. The last one is the equivalent of an additional two points in Imp Aspect of the Hawk so its well worth it.
I can tell you that in my modelling, 2/18/51 with Imp Stings and Aimed Shot in the rotation outperforms any spec with additional points in the BM tree.
What about Rapid Fire instead of Aimed to help with downtime in Viper? (and yeah, I suck enough at weaving that not picking up aimed unless it was a real dps boost would be a good thing).
Not sure I understand the question you just asked. Do you mean Rapid Killing? If so, how does that help with Viper downtime? Anyway, I spec'd 1/18/52 personally. Same glyphs.
A couple of things:
I notice that that previous parse didn't use Aimed Shot. From my testing on the PTR (with and without trap dancing), I feel that using Aimed probably does more harm than good in that, it made managing my other CDs feel clunky, whereas I could find a very smooth rotation when I omitted it and spent the point elsewhere. That is not to say that Aimed can't be used to generate more dps for a hunter, given individual gear and whatnot, but maybe that for someone who's newer to SV, it's a much smoother transition into the spec without it.
On that note, having been BM for the duration of my huntering, one thing that I recommend is to use the SteadySpam macro that Mattaos has on the BM Bible in order to "weave" your Kill Shot. If the boss is >20%, it will just bypass the KS command and go straight for SS. If, on the other hand, the boss is <20%, it will cast KS as long as it's not on CD. Just one less CD to manage.
When in danger, when in doubt:
run in circles, scream and shout.
01/20/09, 6:59 PM
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