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Old 01/21/09, 6:25 PM   #751
Soulcow
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Kazzak (EU)
Originally Posted by Creosote View Post
Sorry if this has been answered before, but I'm looking for good suggestions for a LnL mod. Anyone recommend something with a fairly big warning on screen and possibly sound as well. Also what is your favorite cooldown timer?

Thanks in advance for your answers.
I was able to add the Lock and Load trigger to MSBT . You can enlarge the font quite a bit, change the color and add a sound.

Edit: for those who need help with adding a custom trigger to MSBT:

type /msbt to open the config window, go to the "Triggers" tab and press "Add New Trigger". Give it a name, like LnL. Scroll all the way down, your new trigger is at the bottom. Click on the yellow square in the front to change the color.
Then click on the white gear click "Add Event", the default Aura Application is what we need. Click on the icon before "Skill Name" and write in the parameter box: "Lock and Load". Press Save three times.
Now click on the blue "A", here you can change the font settings to your liking (fex increase the font size). And with the 3rd icon you can set the area it should place the message, the message text, a sound and an icon. I don't use icons myself, so I don't know how that works.
Your LnL trigger should work now.

The sound only works if your turn "Enable Sounds" in the general tab. This will also enable other sounds you might not like, you can turn them off by going to the low mana & low health triggers.

Last edited by Soulcow : 01/21/09 at 6:36 PM.

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Old 01/21/09, 6:29 PM   #752
Screechbythebell
I've Made a Huge Mistake
 
Screechbythebell's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Creosote View Post
Sorry if this has been answered before, but I'm looking for good suggestions for a LnL mod. Anyone recommend something with a fairly big warning on screen and possibly sound as well. Also what is your favorite cooldown timer?

Thanks in advance for your answers.
I use Power Auras for keeping Serpent up as well as LnL procs. I've heard good things about KHT (Kharthus hunter timers as well) I just can't get used to how small it is.

PowerAura link...

PowerAuraClassic

*Thanks Fierra.

Yea, I wrote what I meant poorly. I mean that I don't like the box/chunk of timers, I prefer one simple animation for key procs I appreciate you trying to help though.

Last edited by Screechbythebell : 01/21/09 at 6:43 PM.

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Old 01/21/09, 6:39 PM   #753
Fierra
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Fenris
Originally Posted by Screechbythebell View Post
I use Power Auras for keeping Serpent up as well as LnL procs. I've heard good things about KHT (K*something*'s hunter timers as well) I just can't get used to how small it is.

PowerAura link...

PowerAuraClassic
Kharthus's Hunter Timers.

I use it myself; the font, location, and what is displayed is entirely customizable. Don't like the size? Increase it.

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Old 01/21/09, 6:41 PM   #754
legomyegolas
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Malygos
Originally Posted by Screechbythebell View Post
I use Power Auras for keeping Serpent up as well as LnL procs. I've heard good things about KHT (K*something*'s hunter timers as well) I just can't get used to how small it is.

PowerAura link...

PowerAuraClassic
How did you get power auras to work with serpent sting? I have it setup for everything else, but it won't detect when my serpent sting isn't on the boss.

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Old 01/21/09, 6:48 PM   #755
Screechbythebell
I've Made a Huge Mistake
 
Screechbythebell's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by legomyegolas View Post
How did you get power auras to work with serpent sting? I have it setup for everything else, but it won't detect when my serpent sting isn't on the boss.
I've always found screenshots of the settings to be helpful, so forgive me :P

Serpent Sting Screenshot

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Old 01/21/09, 6:50 PM   #756
dsl1
Glass Joe
 
Undead Hunter
 
Gul'dan
Originally Posted by Soulcow View Post
I was able to add the Lock and Load trigger to MSBT . You can enlarge the font quite a bit, change the color and add a sound.

Edit: for those who need help with adding a custom trigger to MSBT:

type /msbt to open the config window, go to the "Triggers" tab and press "Add New Trigger". Give it a name, like LnL. Scroll all the way down, your new trigger is at the bottom. Click on the yellow square in the front to change the color.
Then click on the white gear click "Add Event", the default Aura Application is what we need. Click on the icon before "Skill Name" and write in the parameter box: "Lock and Load". Press Save three times.
Now click on the blue "A", here you can change the font settings to your liking (fex increase the font size). And with the 3rd icon you can set the area it should place the message, the message text, a sound and an icon. I don't use icons myself, so I don't know how that works.
Your LnL trigger should work now.

The sound only works if your turn "Enable Sounds" in the general tab. This will also enable other sounds you might not like, you can turn them off by going to the low mana & low health triggers.

A simple way is to go into MSBT, take like the Clearcasting alert and just change it to Lock and Load and switch the class to hunter. Then you can change what it displays too.

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Old 01/21/09, 7:12 PM   #757
Kluian
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Korgath
I have a question regarding the Sniper Training talent and was curious if anyone has tested it.

Sniper Training talent states : Increases the damage done by your Steady Shot, Aimed Shot and Explosive Shots by 6% if you are 30 yards or further from your target, and increases the critical strike chance of your Kill Shot ability by 15%.

Now, this talent can be interpreted a couple ways. Is the 15% increased crit chance on Kill shot only when you are 30 yards away? Or is it always applied to Kill Shot. I think it is the former, but some people disagree.

The reason I have this opinion is because this talent is written just like Marked for Death is in the MM tree.

Marked for Death states : Increases your damage done by your shots and the damage done by your pet's special abilities by 5% on marked targets, and increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot, Steady Shot, Kill Shot and Chimera Shot by 10%.

I'm fairly certain the second portion of this talent does not work unless Hunter's Mark is on the target.

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Old 01/21/09, 7:17 PM   #758
noth
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Windrunner
You're incorrect on both counts, I believe, Kluian. Both talents have 2 clauses, the first is conditional, the second is not.
1 - 6% dmg if you're more than 30 yds away
2 - 15% crit on your KS

if there were a range component on the crit, the talent would read something more like "Increases the damage done by your Steady Shot, Aimed Shot and Explosive Shots by 6% and the critical strike chance of your Kill Shot ability by 15% when you are more than 30 yards from your target."

Hope that helped!

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Old 01/21/09, 7:20 PM   #759
ankah
Piston Honda
 
Orc Hunter
 
Eitrigg
Originally Posted by arison View Post
Patchwerk is really a terrible DPS test, though. It isn't representative of most fights (not that any single fight is), and your own personal DPS is far too influenced by others' DPS to really measure accurately. 2-3 minute fights far, far overemphasize cooldowns and heroism and the fight is so simple it requires very little player skill. You can literally press the same buttons with the same spec, same gear, and same buffs week to week and have your DPS increase because other members of your raid are increasing their dps. So you can't even use it to measure your own progress week to week, much less against other hunters or different specs.

Real DPS measurements need to be in a full raid on a practice dummy in a fight of fixed duration (3 min, 5 min, etc), not fixed HP. Sadly no one really does this, so we have very poor proxy fights like Patchwerk.

If there were a talent that increased your AP by 25,000 but reduced your maximum HP to 1, the spreadsheet would tell you to take it. Likewise, if there were a shot that took 7 minutes to cast but did 25,000,000 damage, then the spreadsheet would tell you to use it. Flat numbers in a spreadsheet aren't the only metric of a spec.

To be specific on aimed; being able to shoot in motion (while jumping or strafing) is pretty handy, more so than multishot's 0.5s cast, and the spreadsheet shows as higher dps than a point in IAotH for me and possibly other players. Multi isn't terrible but it definitely is inferior. At one talent point, aimed has some nice synergy with deep bm and a nice debuff.
But that is the point of projecting dps: how much dps will it represent in a raid, under raid conditions. Dont forget that many buffs are combat based buffs such as abomination's might. Take that 10% out, and SV will have very similar numbers to MM, which carries their own 10% buff. the point of the spread sheet is not to simulate dummy dps, but to try to simulate raid dps, with all of it's buffs and debuffs.

Patch is an easy way to gauge since it provides the least mobility (like a test dummy), and the raid needs to go as hard as possible. I have read this argument before, how you can only compare dps between the builds on a dummy, and frankly, what is the point?

Trinkets, certain talents, skills, racials have timer to add dynamic to game. To time every thing correctly is also a skill, trust me.

Players that truly shine at what they do, spend hours researching their class, figuring out what gear to get, what skills to have, which enchants to use, which gems works best, what and how to macro, what will represent the best usage of my timers, how to best interact with other classes, how it all comes together in a simulator of sorts. If you don't think it doesn't represent a player's skill, it is my opinion that you are wrong.

W.W.S. reports as a whole are underutilized. Most just take a peek at their total DPS, and the relation to the raid, and then boss DPS, and again, their relation to the raid. I have been top 5 every single time out, and every report would show me where I improved (was my rotation tight, did I use my CD effectively, etc), and where I still needed to improve. All of this should be done regardless of total DPS, since an increase could just mean better gear.

If there was a skill or talent that increased my AP by 25000 and dropped my HP to 1, trust me, not only would I take it, but I guarantee my entire guild would do what it took to support the usage of such skill, as would many others. Look at how some guilds use Tricks of the Trade and frost fire mages and the list goes on.

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Old 01/21/09, 7:23 PM   #760
Kluian
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Korgath
Thanks Noth. I also wanted to state, not sure if someone else already has in this thread, but it appears you gain 4 ticks of viper from each cast of explosive shot. It seems you receive a tick for each explosive shot it, and a fourth one when the debuff fades from the target oddly enough. Not sure if it is a bug, but it's there.

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Old 01/21/09, 7:53 PM   #761
darcourt
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Korialstrasz
Sorry for the question here but with the release of the patch I am changing from Bm to survival spec. My question is how should I be gemming for the spec.

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Old 01/21/09, 8:02 PM   #762
Catalept
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Aman'Thul
Originally Posted by ankah View Post
But that is the point of projecting dps: how much dps will it represent in a raid, under raid conditions. Dont forget that many buffs are combat based buffs such as abomination's might. Take that 10% out, and SV will have very similar numbers to MM, which carries their own 10% buff. the point of the spread sheet is not to simulate dummy dps, but to try to simulate raid dps, with all of it's buffs and debuffs.
The problem is that unless the spreadsheet simulates each encounter separately, it won't tell you your 'raid DPS'... just your maximum DPS under the (overly?) ideal circumstances modeled by the spreadsheet itself... which is one of the reasons Patchwerk WWS reports need to be taken with a grain of salt. I think there's an argument to be made that your DPS under sub-optimal conditions is more important. The meta-game of maximising spreadsheet (or Patchwerk) DPS shouldn't be taken out of the context of the actual game, where mobility, forced downtime, mana-drains and all sorts of other factors come into play.

In short, although I think the spreadsheet is a good way to predict large differences in DPS, I don't think its resolution is sufficient to be useful in tuning DPS down to single-digit precision.

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Old 01/21/09, 8:09 PM   #763
Heenk
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Ghostlands (EU)
Originally Posted by darcourt View Post
Sorry for the question here but with the release of the patch I am changing from Bm to survival spec. My question is how should I be gemming for the spec.
Pretty much like every hunter gemmed in TBC: Hit until capped, make sure your meta is active, and 16 agi in every other slot.

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Old 01/21/09, 8:14 PM   #764
Sean
Piston Honda
 
Orc Hunter
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by noth View Post
You're incorrect on both counts, I believe, Kluian. Both talents have 2 clauses, the first is conditional, the second is not.
1 - 6% dmg if you're more than 30 yds away
2 - 15% crit on your KS

if there were a range component on the crit, the talent would read something more like "Increases the damage done by your Steady Shot, Aimed Shot and Explosive Shots by 6% and the critical strike chance of your Kill Shot ability by 15% when you are more than 30 yards from your target."

Hope that helped!
The wowhead data supports this: Sniper Training - Spell - World of Warcraft

Effect #1 Apply Aura: Dummy (14)
Value: 6
Server-side script

Effect #2 Apply Aura: Add Flat Modifier (7)
Value: 15

Kill Shot's +15% crit is definitely not dependent on range like the +6% damage is.

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Old 01/21/09, 9:24 PM   #765
Aelatian
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Zenedar (EU)
Originally Posted by Screechbythebell View Post
I've always found screenshots of the settings to be helpful, so forgive me :P

Serpent Sting Screenshot
I've been using Power Auras for a long while now and I spent about an hour trying to configure it to notify me when Serpent Sting falls off (I have DoTimer but I'd rather not constantly watch it) without any luck.

I used the exact same settings you have in your screenshot before I came looking for help and it doesn't work for me. Whenever I enter combat, the pop up graphic appears, but won't disappear when I apply my Serpent Sting as it should.

My only guess would be that since I have Glyph of Serpent Sting that it uses a different Aura ID? I'll try uninstalling the mod and starting over, which would mean losing quite a few of my pop ups :/

Only other option is re-arranging DoTimer and having a fat bar that's more visible and more annoying.

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Old 01/21/09, 10:18 PM   #766
Rezdan
Don Flamenco
 
Rezdan's Avatar
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Nagrand
Originally Posted by Oxblood80 View Post
<snip>
My shot rotation is Hunters mark, Serpent sting, Explosive shot, Aimed shot inbetween spamming my old steady shot macro.

Do you think this is best way to maximize DPS?
</snip>
As has been stated multiple times in this thread, Serpent Sting should be prioritized after Explosive Shot and Aimed Shot but before Steady Shot. You don't want to delay Explosive Shot because you're trying to put up Serpent Sting and you're not losing huge amounts of DPS by letting it drop off the mob while you're doing instants.

Last edited by Rezdan : 01/21/09 at 10:37 PM.

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Old 01/21/09, 11:16 PM   #767
halabar
Banned
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Staghelm
Originally Posted by Fierra View Post
First, it's 'losing." Loosing is to let loose.

Aimed does more damage than Steady Shot, as we have said many times. Therefore, replacing a Steady with an Aimed shot every 10 secs or so is a good dps increase. Also, as has been stated many times as well, it gives you the option of another instant shot for all the mobile fights.

I understand the damage increase, and also the mana issue as well. I guess what is needed is to get back to my guild, run some raids, and see how the mana is. If I can stay up an entire fight without Viper, then I'll go back and take Aimed and weave that in. But if the Ret pally stays on vacation, and we don't get a SPriest, then I might not use Aimed...

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Old 01/22/09, 12:31 AM   #768
KraxisSingular
Banned
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Runetotem (EU)
Originally Posted by Screechbythebell View Post
I've always found screenshots of the settings to be helpful, so forgive me :P

Serpent Sting Screenshot
Oh many thanks! I have noticed that I have let Serpent drop now and then because I was focusing on other stuff. Silly really since I had no problem when I was BM. This should really help. Even added the Raidwarning sound to make sure this distracted Hunter does his job.

But I was wondering... would it be helpful to add the Explosive DoT to Powerauras to make sure when you get LnL procs that you don't waste ticks. I have found I'm a little too impatient for interleaving, and I think I have done a pretty good job at guestimating the 0.5 seconds I need after the GCD for the next Explosive. But it is a bit of a fear of mine to waste the last tick, but still not shoot at the GCD (quite possibly the worst option of spending LnL procs).
The only real issue I can see from this is the flighttime. Not much of an issue if you are a Trapdancer, but if you have gone the way of the Sniper and stand at 30 yards+ it is not a moot point.

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Old 01/22/09, 12:38 AM   #769
vongimi
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Aegwynn
So ive been hearing that the Raptor is best DPS for survival hunters, but that is with 1/2 in Focused Fire. Without that 1/2 Focused fire, is the raptor still the best choice? Or is it still the cat?

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Old 01/22/09, 12:46 AM   #770
Rezdan
Don Flamenco
 
Rezdan's Avatar
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Nagrand
@KraxisSingular
I've added the Explosive Shot dot to ClassTimer's target dots to watch for. The dot is actually labelled "Explosive Shot" as well and thats the string you should add.

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Old 01/22/09, 12:58 AM   #771
KraxisSingular
Banned
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Runetotem (EU)
Originally Posted by Rezdan View Post
@KraxisSingular
I've added the Explosive Shot dot to ClassTimer's target dots to watch for. The dot is actually labelled "Explosive Shot" as well and thats the string you should add.
Ahhh... great! Will have to try that. Even got ClassTimer installed for my old BM Serpent Sting control. So it should be easy. Thanks.

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Old 01/22/09, 1:01 AM   #772
Ketari
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Alonsus (EU)
Originally Posted by arison View Post
Don't underestimate the utility of Aimed Shot. Beyond just the healing debuf, you have another shot you can use on the move (and many fights are mobile, beyond just trap dancing). Even better, your burst damage is noticeably improved -- Explosive -> Auto Shot -> Aimed is a lot of damage up front. Mobs just melt. It complicates the rotation but definitely has a real and appreciable impact.
I think it complicates a standing-still rotation overly much, but I've taken in for use on the move (and pvp, but that's very much by-the-by). I don't do 25 mans, so mana is usually some form of an issue which is going to bias me on this, admitedly.

For lnl cooldown tracking, DoTimer works (when the buff appears, custom 30s CD timer). However, I'd like a more, well, visible countdown. Also, KHT is a great mod but unless I'm missing something can't track internal cooldowns which don't have a "visible" timer like LnL's.

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Old 01/22/09, 1:07 AM   #773
Thaloc
Glass Joe
 
Thaloc's Avatar
 
Draenei Hunter
 
Doomhammer (EU)
Screechbythebell Mind posting a Screenshot of the setting for Lock and load ?

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Old 01/22/09, 1:40 AM   #774
vongimi
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Aegwynn
Ya im having trouble getting it to work with lock and load too.

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Old 01/22/09, 2:19 AM   #775
Screechbythebell
I've Made a Huge Mistake
 
Screechbythebell's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Thaloc View Post
Screechbythebell Mind posting a Screenshot of the setting for Lock and load ?
Sure thing.

Oh boy, you guys are in for a treat. I forgot to hearth and I'm in AQ. :o

http://i39.tinypic.com/28aoz2b.jpg

There ya go.

PS. I'm by no means an expert with Power Auras so I'm sure there is a better way to configure them.

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