So.. I have been trying to search around all day for a way to show the LnL COOLDOWN, but have so far been unsuccesful.

Got some great tips in this thread about a proc announcer, but what I really would like to see, was a cooldown timer, from the proc..
Now, I don't know if this is even possible with a proc like that, but if anyone could point me in the right direction, I would be grateful

About L&L: Curious to hear what your experiences are, but at the target dummy and with only 184 haste I can cast Explosive Shot, then Aimed Shot and see the third 'tick' of Explosive Shot go off after Aimed Shot is fired.

Doesn't this mean that while I am under Lock & Load I should wait a bit more than just a single GCD before I fire a new Explosive Shot? The OP's summary post and many discussions here are saying you should wait for the last ES tick has passed before shooting another ES.

Wouldn't the 40 haste rating enchant on range weapon be better than the 40 crit one if you are under the haste soft-cap? You'll have a relatively high crit rating nonetheless as surv anyway plus raid buff?

Haste doesn't affect your GCD (only does so for casters). The last tick of Explosive Shot *will* go off after that Aimed Shot is fired, but you will be ready to fire another Explosive Shot after that Aimed Shot's GCD.

Seconds: 0-----------------------1--------------1.5------------2-----------------------3
Events: ES first hit----------ES tick2------Aimed Shot-----ES tick3----------------GCD ready

There'll be some discrepancy between when you trigger the GCD and when you see the damage because of travel time, but the 2 GCDs between pressing ES the first time and pressing it the second time is enough to let the full damage of the first go through.

Since the volley nerf I've found that my raid DPS "damage done" has gone way down, however on boss mobs I'm generally doing much higher DPS than i was pre-patch. When you guys are raiding as surv are you still volleying on all the trash? Or are you single target dpsing ?

This is with a Surv Build 0/16/55. I lose a little bit of DPS (about 100 according to the spreadsheet) for this build, but I like the utility of it.

This is pre-3.0.8 thinking I think. The whole idea now is to get away from steady/auto, its such a diminished portion of your overall DPS. Crit seems better always now than haste.

I switched to Survival the other night and have been using Proculas to track the cooldown of LnL. It works well enough--it needs to calibrate to your cooldowns, which can be done on a target dummy. I had some sort of error occur mid-naxx that changed the LnL cooldown from 30 seconds to 1.4 seconds, but it's simple enough to reset it and get it recalibrated.

I use "NeedToKnow" addon to track Lock and Load cooldowns myself.
I found it very light and easily customized. Highly recommended.

Addon can be found here:
NeedToKnow - Addons - Curse

I swear my setup looks just like yours and it still doesn't show up

Edit: Nevermind... now it's working, and I didn't change anything. Strangeness

I'll second this addon. It's nice and easy to use and customize. I also have it set to monitor Serpent Sting which makes for a very easy rotation monitor as far as refreshing Serpent Sting goes.

I've found that with ES's buff, I hardly ever use volley at all except for groups of 5+ mobs; the dps you do from weaving ES+Multi etc outstrips volley in virtually every instance I've tested it. Volley spam is no longer mana efficient on any level.

With all this talk about addons to show LnL procs, I'd like to ask a question. I've been using ClassTimer, and have been noticing it hasn't been showing all of my LnL procs. As in, it would randomly just not show the buff. This would cause me to mash explosive shot thinking I'm lagging and it's not going off, thus wasted dps.

Has anyone else had this problem? I'm not asking if anyone with ClassTimer has had this problem, as it may be the addon at fault, but has anyone had the problem of the buff not showing at all?

Has anyone considered the Glyph of Multi-Shot?

A rotation such as:

ES - MS - SS - SS - ES - SS - SS - MS - ES - SS - SS - SS - ES

(SS being Serpent Sting if you need to refresh, Steady Shot otherwise)

would let you have 2/3 of your rotations include multi-shot with no GCD worries, as opposed to the 10 sec cooldown, thus not delaying either ES or MS.

The glyph could be viable for spec's that do not include Aimed Shot. (for example those who need 3/3 Focus Aim because they are not hit capped, and would like to retain 3/3 Improved Stings.)

I use this addon for everything. I use it to track Lock and Load, Serpent Sting, Aimed Shot, and Hunter's Mark. I also have it set to watch the Explosive Shot debuff on the mob, as I have been going with the 3 Explosive Shots in a row when LnL procs, waiting around .5 seconds between each.

Infrantic,

You'd have to find a mod that will count 30s from when LnL triggers. Power Auras classic from curse might do it. I haven't tested it personally, but the mod is extremely customizable. Not 'easily customized' like NeedToKnow though.

What are you using between your explosive shots? I think if you're haste capped you can get 3 specials between every ES. If you're not then you're either wasting part of a GCD every 6 seconds, or your pushing back your explosive past its 6 second CD.

You are never truly going to get 3 specials inside 6 seconds if you have any latency at all, which everyone has, so in reality there is always going to be a bit of lost CD in ES. The real question here is at what point does it become more worthwhile to wait on your next ES cast rather than cast a special - ie. at .1s before your next ES cast, it is worthwhile to do nothing rather than cast a steady. So can a point where these specials are beneficial to cast be defined is the question, and what values for what shot (kill shot> serpent> aimed> steady)?

Thats actually the question I am trying to figure out currently. If you use the Rotation Test for dps results on the spreadsheet, its going to do a decent job of modeling the delayed CDs (minus IAoTH) and the impact of haste on the rotation, but the exact thresholds where a given shot is "worthwhile" still ought to be to be defined, if feasable.
I am toying with the idea this may be achieved by (% difference of ES vs other shot's damage) * cast time of that given shot to determine a cutoff point for using a certain shot before ES, but I have not really convinced myself yet.

Multishot is a terrible shot to include in your rotation.

a) Multishot is not instant.
b) There is around 0.5s delay before multishot is cast. Therefore you are using 2s to fire a multishot. (0.5+GCD) So over the course of three multishots you have wasted one global cooldown that could have been used.
c) The 0.5s delay pushes the rotation of your explosive shot away from a perfect rotation.

EX---->Aimed ----->SS----->SS----->EX
0--------1.5----------3.0------4.5------6

EX---------->M--------->SS-------->SS------>EX
0---------1.5+0.5-------3.5---------5.0--------6.5

You never want to do anything that delays explosive shot.

I was unaware that Multishot worked differently than Steady Shot. (SS has been the mainstay for a long time, so I may need to refamiliarize myself with MS)
Steady Shot triggers the GCD at the beginning of the shot, and I guess I assumed that Multishot did, too.
If it is after the .5 sec cast, then you are absolutely correct and it would push back ES and be a hinderance.

Well obviously specific testing hasn't been posted yet, but I am under the impression that survival is absolutely the top DPS spec for PvE because of the buffs from the most recent patch. I tested marks vs survival on test dummies and was putting out 600 more dps average. I am topping dps now in 25nax /maly except in situational boss fights (like Thaddius polarity shifting or zombie kiting duty on gluth etc) My questions are...

1. Is haste cap still the thing to go for since the SS nurf? I am soft capped for SS and hit capped as well, but I'm wondering the importance of haste, as I seem to crit literally almost every shot with survival spec I'm sure stacking crit isn't the way to go. Should we be taking out our haste gems (if used) and putting in atk power or agi instead? I understand stam gems have value now as a survival hunter but by exact math I'm not sure (and I apologize if these are nub questions but this spec is new to me)

2. I NEVER seem to go OOM, in fact, while topping the DPS charts at around 4.5k or higher I seem to be full mana at all times with blessing of wisdom. Given raid buffs provide extra mana would it be worthwhile to delve into aimed shot in the marks tree and add that into the rotation? Or perhaps throw in multi shots over the steadyshot sequence? My current rotation is Mark > serpent > rapid fire > ES > steadyx3 with reapplications of mark or serpent ONLY when they fall off, as I understand refreshing them early is a loss in DPS.

I'll do some testing on both of these unless someone beats me to the punch (saving me some gold in the process

1) Haste cap has never been important enough to gem for; as SV, always gem pure AGI. Stamina is alright; maxed HvW gives 30% STA->AP, so getting AGI/INT is always better.

2) Read the thread before you post. We've had a long debate on this; in general, it seems that speccing into Aimed does provide a dps boost since you can replace 1 SS every 10 secs with it, since it is now quite a bit more powerful than SS. Also, read the thread to see why your rotation is wrong.

I've been playing around with the latest spreadsheet and have noticed that it's suggests 2/2 GFTT is a bigger gain then spending it as a 2nd point in IAOTH. Has anyone else noticed this?