1. Your on a complicated boss, therefore you'll likely be moving, therefore its just gonna mess up the rotation.
2. Your on a tank/spank, therefore the only thing you should be doing is looking at your buttons.
Just my thoughts. And it could just be my play style, but I'm sure all the BM hunters that spec'ed Survival this week would like something like this.
The point to realize is that there isn't a shot rotation, there's a shot priority. Situation 1 is exactly the type of thing this would be designed for... you're moving around a lot and can't follow a strict rotation (1). By automatically figuring out what shot has priority next, it takes some of the load off your own mind so you can pay more attention to the fight.
1. In my mind, a shot rotation is a precalculated shot priority system, it just maps out what you need to cast when... with the assumption nothing else is impacting your casting.
I've been playing around with the latest spreadsheet and have noticed that it's suggests 2/2 GFTT is a bigger gain then spending it as a 2nd point in IAOTH. Has anyone else noticed this?
I noticed this, and I wondered if I was doing something wrong since others seem to be reporting different things. I'm seeing a 1/19/51 replenishment build as the highest DPS, with 3/3 EW and 4/5 HP.
I am just wondering how is everyone using their big CD like rapid fire, trinket, Call of the wild and KC (I guess). Do you pop all of those at once and then keep using trinket, CotW and KC whenever it's off CD? And when you pop them, at the beginning of the fight, mid fight, or heroism?
What kind of Surv numbers are people seeing on Sarth +3? Is it just a low dps fight for hunters? I respecced last night and was at the bottom of the DPS charts. I need a few better pieces and a little regemming, but that shouldn't put me 2k below most of the pack.
While my guild doesnt have the composition nor the gear to do 10 drake Sarth+3, I was only seeing around 3400 dps on 2 drake with Tenebron and Shadron. We took 2 rogues, a death knight, and me for dps. Sadly they all do more aoe damage than hunters now, especially for sarth where the add tank and myself are moving around so much.
I am just wondering how is everyone using their big CD like rapid fire, trinket, Call of the wild and KC (I guess). Do you pop all of those at once and then keep using trinket, CotW and KC whenever it's off CD? And when you pop them, at the beginning of the fight, mid fight, or heroism?
If you know exactly when you will receive Heroism, then it may be worthwhile to hold up on popping a CD, but generally speaking, you want to keep all those abilities on CD throughout the fight. An addon such as TimeToDie will help you time your CD's with the mob's remaining health.
I am just wondering how is everyone using their big CD like rapid fire, trinket, Call of the wild and KC (I guess). Do you pop all of those at once and then keep using trinket, CotW and KC whenever it's off CD? And when you pop them, at the beginning of the fight, mid fight, or heroism?
The usage of your cooldowns depends mostly on the fight duration, and if/when you get bloodlust (heroism).
KC is a negligible DPS increase, so just pop it on cooldown regardless of anything else. If you have a raptor, you may as well tie it to savage rend since they both share a 1 min cooldown.
On a normal 3 minute fight, with a bloodlust around 35% (execute/molten fury range) I suggest the following:
1. KC (+ Savage Rend if you use a Raptor pet) every time it's up.
2. Rapid Fire + Trinket at the start of the fight.
3. CotW during bloodlust, combined with 2nd use of your clicky-trinket.
There's no sense stacking haste buffs as a hunter, since only our whites get anything from it, and the relative value diminishes as we stack more haste buffs.
If you do not have a lust, stack CotW with rapid fire/trinket and use it at the start. On longer, you will be able to get a 2nd rapid fire which you can possibly couple with a trinket activation and a second CotW if you delay the trinket usage.
Of course, if you don't have a clicky-trinket (neither current best in slot has a "use" effect), it's worth delaying your rapid fire by a few seconds and using it when you have a trinket proc (such as the AP from mirror).
Unlike Mages, who live and die by their ability to stack cooldowns, Hunters don't have nearly as much to worry about. Effectively, the goal is just to stack any attack power buffs you can with a haste effect.
It's called Bloodlust, not Heroism. What kind of pansy name is Heroism, anyway?
<Bad> Dragonmaw US www.damnwesuck.com
12/13 [25] Heroic - Recruiting exceptional players.
is there a purpose to going down the wyvern sting tree, other than nowhere else to put the points? I've noticed that no one is including ws in their shot priorities...
is there a purpose to going down the wyvern sting tree, other than nowhere else to put the points? I've noticed that no one is including ws in their shot priorities...
To get noxious stings. It has a secondary effect of causing all dmg to be increased by 3% as long as you have serpent up.
To my knowledge, all boss mobs are immune to wyvern sting.
Additionally, the only reason it's taken (pve-wise) is because it's required in order to pick up noxious stings. 3% more damage to all of your attacks while serpent sting is active on the target is desirable enough that wasting the one point in wyvern is acceptable.
It's called Bloodlust, not Heroism. What kind of pansy name is Heroism, anyway?
<Bad> Dragonmaw US www.damnwesuck.com
12/13 [25] Heroic - Recruiting exceptional players.
To my knowledge, all boss mobs are immune to wyvern sting.
Additionally, the only reason it's taken (pve-wise) is because it's required in order to pick up noxious stings. 3% more damage to all of your attacks while serpent sting is active on the target is desirable enough that wasting the one point in wyvern is acceptable.
ahh, for some reason I thought the bonus to SrS was only if the first condition hit.
At the moment I am asking myself how to deal with Sniper Training. Let's think about a Tank and Spank encounter like Patchwerk. Should I use it at all costs, eventhough I am risking to loose meleebuffs, such as Retribution Aura, Totems etc. Most of them have a 30y range. Or do you see Sniper Training just as situtational benefit, like for example when shooting Scions at Malygos Encounter?
THE alternative is of course trapdancing and as I said, taking Sniper Training just as a situational benefit, without "enforcing" it.
At the moment I am asking myself how to deal with Sniper Training. Let's think about a Tank and Spank encounter like Patchwerk. Should I use it at all costs, eventhough I am risking to loose meleebuffs, such as Retribution Aura, Totems etc. Most of them have a 30y range. Or do you see Sniper Training just as situtational benefit, like for example when shooting Scions at Malygos Encounter?
THE alternative is of course trapdancing and as I said, taking Sniper Training just as a situational benefit, without "enforcing" it.
I've been thinking about this as well. I was wondering if anyone can request an addon that tracks your buffs so you can make sure you have them all when you are beyond 30 yards. I know addons like this exist, but will they show totems and such?
This would appear to be Explosive Shot > Kill Shot > Serpent Sting > Arcane Shot > Aimed (multi) > Steady, and use the highest priority when its available (or needs to be refreshed); at least thats the basic running concept.
Most people will have at least 80 resistance in pvp (mages, warlocks, druids, frost aura dks), sometimes 130 (shadow aura, frost aura, frost res totem, shadow protection, mage armor mages)
For example if you have 100 penetration, it will reduce 80 resistance to 0 but 80 penetration will also do that so it's 20 wasted. If they have 130 resistance they're left with 30.
Hitting 130 resistance targets with 0 penetration will have almost 25% of your elemental damage reduced overall. That's not all since you will sometimes get 50% of dmg cut (20% chance) and 75% of dmg cut (5% chance) on your strikes/spells, so a lot of effect on the burst as well. Chance to get full damage (no partial resist)strikes/spells is only like 22% in this case."
Do you guys think adding spell penetration to a PvP hunters set would be a worthwhile change?
No Arcane Shot, since it eats up an LnL charge (and does it also share cooldown with ES?).
No Multi Shot. I don't completely remember why, but I thought it shared a CD with Aimed or something.
Kill Shot does not incur a GCD, so it can be macroed together with every other shot in your priority list to ensure it always fires when available since it will not delay or interfere with your other shots in any way. It can and does fire simultaneously with other shots when used this way. You could see that as being top priority, but since it does not preclude you from firing something else at the same time, I consider it external to the priority queue. Semantics, probably.
Arcane & Explosive share a cooldown and Explosive does way more damage, so a 51pt Survival hunter should never fire Arcane.
Multi & Aimed share a cooldown. Aimed benefits from Sniper Training if you are 30+ yds away, multi does not. Aimed is instant and therefore can be fired while moving if the encounter requires that you move (you can use it while swirling around in Malygos's vortex, for example); Multi has a 0.5 second cast time. Aimed also has the added bonus of applying a healing debuff to the target, which is situationally useful.
(All of this information came from prior posts in this very thread.)
An update on Kill Shot being off the GCD. I have tested and can confirm that Kill Shot can be macroed with both Explosive Shot and Aimed Shot and both shots will fire if KS is available (below 20% off CD). Screen shot available on request.
Just as a quick note, I've noticed a lot of Hunters are actually running back from the boss after laying a trap. This will result in a DPS loss, I suggest you simply hit disengage. It makes things much quicker.
Someone take a look at my profile please. My question is regarding haste rating.
Mine right now sits at 188 from Armory. My ranged weapon, the bow from Normal Naxxaramas and the ranged weapon speed on it is 2.80. Now comparing that to let's say Nesingwary 4000 which has very similar stats than the bow, and the same weapon speed... it seems to show a much higher speed than my bow.
Take a look at Cilithan's profile for example, who has already posted in this thread: The World of Warcraft Armory
Our haste ratings are very similar, but the ranged weapon speed differs by 0.4, which seems like a huge difference. Is it because he's using a gun, and I a bow?
Now, I know I am specc'd as BM on my profile, and that's only because I didn't get a chance to try out SV before our raid last night, and that I currently don't have a non-BM pet fully leveled. My guild only raids 10 man, and BM has been working just fine. However, after last night, I was somewhat disappointed with the results of the recent nerf to the spec.. so was the other BM Hunter. I want to try SV for two reasons:
1. BM has lost it's appeal. I get bored playing it. I just sit there and spam steady shot, with serpent sting once in a while.
2. While BM does have it's moments, there's hardly any utility in the spec, except for Ferocious Inspiration. Survival in my opinion wins utility hands down. And considering that my guild only runs 10 mans, with no Shadow Priests and Ret Pallies, switching to SV will be a welcome addition to the raid.
My big question is this... considering the level of content my guild raids, how many points should I put into IAotH? My haste rating, as mentionned already sits at 188 right now. Can I soft cap this without doing Heroic raids?
I will be regemming my gear over the weekend and respeccing to SV, I just want to know how many points should I put in IAotH considering the level of content I am raiding. I play to get the hit cap using the gear and I have and gems, so I don't need to put points in FA.
Just as a quick note, I've noticed a lot of Hunters are actually running back from the boss after laying a frost trap. This will result in a DPS loss, I suggest you simply hit disengage. It makes things much quicker.
But it leaps you farther away from the boss than necessary, doesn't it? And wouldn't it make more sense to use a immolation trap, as far as you do not have to slow any mobs?
Hey, if it's in the spreadsheet stop wasting posts here about it. Specific gearing questions can be dealt with on your own.
This.
Originally Posted by Fierra
Not bashing anyone, but all the BM hunters that are switching to SV this week need to realize as well that there is NO easy SV rotation. I'm not bashing those that wanted to change, but I have seen way too many posts now with people asking for hand-holding in this spec. The ideal rotations have been posted....over and over again. There is a set shot priority that is generally agreed on:
Explosive -> Aimed (if specced)/ Multi -> SrS -> Steady
No, there is not a macro at this time that can weave these together without a significant loss in dps.
Next, Lock and Load procs: again, this thread has covered many, many times good addons for this if you are having problems; simply scroll back through the last few pages; at least 4 different addons have been mentioned in case one is unfavorable to you. They are all fairly customizable. There are two ways to deal with LnL procs:
ES -> .5s delay -> ES -> .5s delay -> ES (my preferred method unless sting/HM is dropping off)
or
ES -> SS/SrS/HM/Aimed -> ES -> SS/SrS/HM/Aimed -> ES
The first has been showed to be a dps increase, although marginal; if you have lag of any kind, interleaving your shots as in the second example is the way to go. NEVER clip an ES tick, or you will lose sustantial dps.
Next, Sniper Training vs Trapdancing. Both are dps increases; both are generally different playstyles. Neither is inherently superior; if you don't like trapdancing, don't. Take Sniper Training and stay way back instead. Like being at the front? Learn how to trapdance your LnL procs with each boss. It's that simple. Resourcefullness is, at this time, a waste of talent points in most circumstances due to the 30s hidden CD on LnL. Yes, Frost Trap currently bypasses this, but this is obviously a bug, so I would not recommend getting too used to it. Spend your talent points in either Sniper Training (for increased KS crit) or Tactician to get to ES.
Hunting Party: Due to the lack of other available good talents, at least 2 points in HP is usually recommended; you bring a little more utility as a SV hunter this way, and 2/5 is usually enough for it to stay up 90% or more of the time with a 30% crit rate unbuffed.
Take your time with SV; it takes quite a while to get used to all the priorities and choices at any given moment. Yes, it is more busy. Yes, choices abound where previously there were few. It isn't terribly complicated in the end, however. I hope this general summation helps though!
And this.
If the mods think that I'm bashing on people too hard, I'll apologize ahead of time. BUT, the mass amounts of people blindly running to Survival because someone made a post somewhere or a guildy/friend said that it got buffed beyond BM is causing a ton of repetitive questions through out this board. There are 36 pages of information that you should have familiarized yourself with before you even spent the gold in game to respec. On top of that, the PTR has been up and running several weeks and if you didn't take it upon yourself to down load it, copy over, and get a feel for it, we shouldn't have to take our time to explain to you when you should be firing shot X, why, and what talents to take. Finally, you shouldn't be asking us how you should spec or how to gem. The grass roots of SV haven't changed since TBC released. You know what gear you have and you SHOULD know how the talents interact with that. If your +hit is terrible, don't avoid Focused Aim and then complain why your DPS isn't matching up with WWs reports. There is a spreadsheet that does a good job of forecasting what your DPS is going to be with specific gear and buffs. Use it. The fact that this topic has blown up since a few days before patch day goes to show 1) how many spec jumping people play this class and 2) how little time people actually take to research their class, pet, gear, and spec.
What you need to know about SV is pretty basic.
- Gear and gem for AGI after you've reached the HIT cap but NEVER do so at the cost of your ability to put damage on the target
- Forget about macros unless you're putting in KS with SS; SV is a prioritized class (similar to DKs) - ES, AS, SrS, and SS
- Trap dancing isn't better than using Sniper Training... it is a play style choice and something that only the best Hunters should try as most people screw it up due to invalid boss hit boxes, poor placement, boss movement, etc.
But it leaps you farther away from the boss than necessary, doesn't it? And wouldn't it make more sense to use a immolation trap, as far as you do not have to slow any mobs?
My apologies, I'll fix the trap error. I wouldn't say more than necessary, if you jump then hit disengage, you jump back considerably more than you would if you stand on the ground and hit disengage. I find as long as I keep the same path, I can end up only a few yards closer than I originally was from the boss if I jump and hit disengage.
Someone take a look at my profile please. My question is regarding haste rating.
Mine right now sits at 188 from Armory. My ranged weapon, the bow from Normal Naxxaramas and the ranged weapon speed on it is 2.80. Now comparing that to let's say Nesingwary 4000 which has very similar stats than the bow, and the same weapon speed... it seems to show a much higher speed than my bow.
Take a look at Cilithan's profile for example, who has already posted in this thread: The World of Warcraft Armory
Our haste ratings are very similar, but the ranged weapon speed differs by 0.4, which seems like a huge difference. Is it because he's using a gun, and I a bow?
Now, I know I am specc'd as BM on my profile, and that's only because I didn't get a chance to try out SV before our raid last night, and that I currently don't have a non-BM pet fully leveled. My guild only raids 10 man, and BM has been working just fine. However, after last night, I was somewhat disappointed with the results of the recent nerf to the spec.. so was the other BM Hunter. I want to try SV for two reasons:
1. BM has lost it's appeal. I get bored playing it. I just sit there and spam steady shot, with serpent sting once in a while.
2. While BM does have it's moments, there's hardly any utility in the spec, except for Ferocious Inspiration. Survival in my opinion wins utility hands down. And considering that my guild only runs 10 mans, with no Shadow Priests and Ret Pallies, switching to SV will be a welcome addition to the raid.
My big question is this... considering the level of content my guild raids, how many points should I put into IAotH? My haste rating, as mentionned already sits at 188 right now. Can I soft cap this without doing Heroic raids?
I will be regemming my gear over the weekend and respeccing to SV, I just want to know how many points should I put in IAotH considering the level of content I am raiding. I play to get the hit cap using the gear and I have and gems, so I don't need to put points in FA.
Thanks in advance.
Umm. If I'm understanding your first question properly, I suspect that the paper doll is showing the effects of the BM Serpent's Swiftness (at 5/5, this increase your haste by 20%).
Regarding IAotH... my understanding is that the first point there is the most important (to enable the glyph). After that, I think it's a bit of a question of game play and gear level. Do you plan to trap dance? Do you have enough crit to live with 1/2 GftT and 2/5 HP? Are you having mana problems in your raids?
If trap-dancing isn't your style, you might just go with exactly the same spec as Cilithan -- his looks like something I might tend towards myself.
And of course, with Sniper Training, Aimed hits harder as well.
...
Aimed Shot's debuff helps in a few situations as well. We are literally the only raiding class that keeps up a healing debuff now too.
Aimed only hits harder with Sniper Training if you are able to be at sufficient range and of course are paying attention, so while it's true, it's not always applicable.
...
Don't forget about all of the non-assassination rogues who are using Wound Poison.
I'm not saying using Aimed Shot is bad. I'm just saying that some of your reasons for thinking it's better than multi-shot aren't completely spot on. If I can get basically the same use with multishot and spend that talent point somewhere else, that makes more sense to me.
One question I have, regarding something that was said a few posts back that didn't make sense to me: multishot has a shorter cooldown than aimed shot? As far as I was aware, they share the same cooldown. The tooltip for both says 10 seconds. What am I missing?
Aimed only hits harder with Sniper Training if you are able to be at sufficient range and of course are paying attention, so while it's true, it's not always applicable.
...
Don't forget about all of the non-assassination rogues who are using Wound Poison.
I'm not saying using Aimed Shot is bad. I'm just saying that some of your reasons for thinking it's better than multi-shot aren't completely spot on. If I can get basically the same use with multishot and spend that talent point somewhere else, that makes more sense to me.
One question I have, regarding something that was said a few posts back that didn't make sense to me: multishot has a shorter cooldown than aimed shot? As far as I was aware, they share the same cooldown. The tooltip for both says 10 seconds. What am I missing?
There is a glyph that decreases the cd of multishot by 1 second
01/23/09, 1:21 PM
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