Markemp

Time to redo all your theorycrafting.

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Mortal Shot and Explosive Shot buffs


ES getting a HUGE bump. At least 0.24 RAP + 1560 now, plus additional scaling to be named.

 

Cilithan

Would be nice to have this change survive the PTR. And nope, this alone doesnt change theorycrafting. My last post kinda sums it up. L&L and the use of Immolation Traps may be the way to go to increase the amount of Explosive Shots in your rotation by as much as possible.

 

Lhivera

...someone really needs to lobby for a change of name on Explosive Shot. Incendiary Shot?

At Veridian Dynamics, we can even make radishes so spicy, people can't eat them. But we're not, because people can't eat them.

 

Markemp

I agree, it needs to survive the PTR, but it's still sorely needed by SV hunters.

And I wasn't talking about the theorycrafting WRT Immo traps for L&L procs. That is all sound crafting and won't change at all by an ES buff. It'll just help make it more...betterer.

I'm still pushing for a frostfire trap arrow for the 41 pt survival talent. Activates on landing, creates a frost trap and an explosive trap where it lands. Would have incredible synergy with trapping talents, glyphs, PoNE, L&L, and so on. It would be a fantastic method for SV hunters to control choke points as well. You *can* cross an area with it if you want, but it will take a little while, and it's going to *hurt*!

 

Har

I like incendiary shot. How about smoldering shot though?

 

Markemp

Exploslove Shot?

 

Zerlu

The Immo. Trap+LnL idea is sound for certain fights. All too often you will find yourself in melee for quite a large range, and the boss will not trigger the trap. A good example of this is the last boss of VH (Cyanigosa I believe). I would run, set a trap, and it wouldn't go off. Of course, if Blizzard were to extend the activation range of our traps by so little as 1-2 yards, we would be set, but for right now it is almost more work than its worth to get a LnL proc.

In a nutshell: a LnL proc is a huge boost in Survival DPS, however it is extremely dependant on your ability to minimize movement time while setting the trap.

 

sinews

I admire the theory-crafting taking place regarding trapping and Lock and Load, but am I the only one that finds standing in melee, dropping a trap and shooting a boss absurd? If not absurd, it certainly doesn't sound like fun.

In my opinion the Lock and Load mechanic itself is pretty awkward.

 

Zerlu

However absurd it may be, in a stand and shoot fight (eg. Patchwerk), it is a dramatic DPS increase. You will miss one GCD (immo placement) and maybe an auto or two. In return you get 2 free explosive shots (which now hit even harder). It is possible to stand 5 yards out from a boss, and then drop a trap w/o moving and have it go off, however again....only on a select few bosses. The good news is that many bosses require movement or adds management, which makes LnL procs easier to come by. Movement because it won't hurt your damage that much to run into melee right quick and drop a trap as you are traversing the room, and add fights for obvious reasons.

As for fun factor, it certainly seems more entertaining to have 2 more LnL procs per minute than I would otherwise enjoy.

 

Namarus

On moving fights or fights with adds I agree with you, that dropping a trap is worth while. However, in stand up dps fights there is no way a free LNL proc every trap cooldown is beneficial as you would have had staying 30+ yards away with sniper training. Factoring in things like the boss moving a little bit, moving you into melee range, or the boss moved a little and is not out of range of your trap = wasted GCD and wasted mana. Don't forget that your not getting any ToTH procs from the traps either. Finally many bosses do nasty crap in "melee" range which you are potentially exposing yourself to. Void zones, which are hard enough for melee to spot, ice tomb effect from KT. You potentially adding a lot of dangers to yourself and the raid by being in a place you shouldn't be. Rogues have Cloak of Shadows for a reason.

 

daesilin

frozen arrow maybe on track for actual hunter abilities... immolation arrow/shot that those hunters used in netherstorm though thats more along the lines of what a survival hunter or all hunters could use.. would proc lnl pone etc if we were able to use these "traps" instant abilites with our arrows as intended and proven by ai used by blizz themselves instead of trying to postion yourself all over the fight to drop a trap to make it do something. of course you have to look at survival and realize it was almost completely set up to be the pvp tree.. but it has not got the top end that pvp needs.. i will indeed reiterate that it is more fun to play survival than the other two specs at this time.. one because i havent set up the one button macro to make it all work.. and two because it really is all situational I believe t hat you can keep up with joe schmo in like gear with any of the specs .. and if you cant than change yours to make yourself feel better

 

Harmann

The PTR thinks my account is borked for some reason... has anyone been able to get online and test out the new Explosive Shot?

Obviously they boosted the base damage by quite a bunch, but has the scaling also gone up to match that?

I always loved Survival and leveled with a 51pt SV spec, just lost its viability once it came down to raiding time.

Also, I wish they'd add back in the 'explosive' nature of the shot and simply have it not affect CCed units. Death Knights have AE spells which don't break CC, don't see why we can't as well. I definitely agree with other posters that we need a ranged method to deploy Immolation and other traps as well. Lock N Load just seems so mediocre when on a straight up DPS fight like Patchwerk...

 

Zerlu

Honestly, in those non-add situations, I fully support the decision to not use traps to proc LnL. Its clunky, and has all of the dangers you listed. The ONLY fight where I could reliable do it (non movement/adds) was Patchwerk. As for sniper training, I never spec it when going Survival, as far too many fights (in my experience) have me sub 30 yards from the boss.

If we could shoot an Immo. arrow under the boss it would be a different story, but dreams don't help any so w/e.

 

Arides

"Worrying about the hunter" is one of the things that has never been on healer radar, and they probably do not want it added now. I have found trap-dancing good on any fight where things are being kited or where--as in the unusual example of Patchwerk--the aggro is so perma-focused on one or two targets the casual SPLAT factor is taken out of the picture, but it's not working for me yet as a standard operating procedure on every fight. It's become the dreaded Situational.

Sniper was my old Situational-Talent talent but agreed, it's too self-indulgent in a raid situation right now. In anticipation of the changes to rotations I am dropping it in favor of a couple of points into Efficiency. Alas, don't have enough data yet to see if that's going to be...efficient.

 

Namarus

Are you finding that you actually need the mana conservation? I've still yet to find a fight where I've run out of mana, with JoW and Mspring. With a decent crit rating ToTH should be giving you a considerable amount of mana back. Furthermore I have not seen a fight that goes on for an excessively long amount of time where mana consumption is an issue. What are you using your pot cooldown on?

 

Namarus

Dawn, this is exceptionally thought provoking. This has made me re-evaluate the importance of keeping IAoTH, or even bothering with the glyph.

 

flimflam

If they made all traps like Freezing Arrow or made Freezing Arrow a type of spell where you can select which arrow to fire.. the spell and LnL could be very interesting.

Instead of having to stand in melee or run into melee range you could shoot your trap and take advantage of LnL. Maybe even make it a 41pt Survival talent?

 

KraxisSingular

JoW is getting nerfed to 2% base mana, which is 101 mana per proc. Not so big a change from 130-140 mana per proc perhaps but since it now such for classes with much smaller base manapools, the value of it might not override JoL if there is only one Paladin. This would make it a lot rarer in a lot of raids.

 

Arides

No JoW, no shammy, no shadow priest. My apologies; I should have specified I'm currently in a 10-man group without an optimal set-up for mana return. And you're totally right those points should not be in there if they're not absolutely needed; I fully expect when we start our 25s in a couple weeks I'll be able to back them out again.

 

Shoggy

Really nice bit of work - just a quick note though on the glyph i would have thought the table for it should look more like this:

Haste	points iaoth
> 522	0 (not worth to take the glyph)
412-522	1 (But drop the glyph)
209-411	1
115-208	2
27-114	3
0-26	4

If you have over 412 haste points, your tables suggest that the unglyphed version of IAotH will be providing roughly the same returns as the glyped version.

 

Galatyn

It appears that the explosive shot change is not on the PTR yet. I can't log on my hunter either, however I ran a level 1 hunter to IF and checked the trainer. The tooltip is the same as it is on live. So either it has not changed, or the tooltip hasn't been updated.

 

Vvix

hi all, just read thru the macro section and couldn't find a macro that included Explosive shot, any of you happen to have a good one? preferbly including the SS spam. Just respecced survival today, so appreciate all the nice info in here, thanks.

/ww

 

Uli

Can anyone explain how the Noxious Stings talent works? In the spreadsheet it gives a DPS increase, but I just don't understand how to use it.

"If Wyvern Sting is dispelled, the dispeller is also inflicted by Wyvern Sting lasting 50% of the duration remaining, and increases all damage done by you on targets afflicted by your Serpent Sting by 3%".

What does dispel mean here? Is it a literal casting of dispell, or does damage that breaks the sting considered dispelling too? I just don't see a lot of PvE benefit with this spell, if the 3% Serpent Sting gain is dependent on a Wyvern Sting.

 

Namarus

There are two benefits to this ability. If you have serpent sting on the target, you gain 3% damage. The 2nd benefit is for wyvern sting if you put wyvern sting on a target and it is dispelled, the person who dispelled is afflicted.

 

Uli

So, the two effects are not connected? I don't have to have a wyvern sting dispelled on a target to get the 3% increase with serpent sting? That clears it up, thanks.