I have carefully read it all and keep coming across this.
1. Kill Shot
2. Explosive Shot
3. Aimed/Multi-Shot (optional?)
4. Serpent Sting
5. Steady Shot
pre 3.08 I was BM and doing above average DPS for my gear, I switched to SV and now just catch up with a BM hunter in virtually the same gear - clearly I'm doing something wrong.
My question is that using the "first up off CD" technique in the above priority order I never really get a steady shot off, I may over write the occasional serpent but not by a huge amount, so what am I doing wrong?
FYI I am in fresh 80 gear doing 5 mans my 1100-1200 dps is therefore respected in most groups, but I feel I'm not playing as well as i could!
Well, let's look at a few windows. Let's assume 200ms for reaction time and lag and 10% haste (1.8s SS).
First window:
0.0 ES (1.5 + .2, CD until 6.0)
1.7 SrS (1.5 + .2, CD until 22.7)
3.4 AS (1.5 + .2, CD until 13.4)
5.1 ***
A SS at this point would push back the ES, so we'll skip it and then...
6.0 ES (1.5 + .2, CD until 12.0)
7.7 SS (1.8 + .2)
9.7 SS (1.8 + .2)
11.7 ***
12.0 ES (1.5 + .2, CD until 18.0)
13.7 AS (1.5 + .2, CD until 23.7)
15.4 SS (1.8 + .2)
17.4 ***
18.0 ES (1.5 + .2, CD until 24.0)
19.7 SS (1.8 + .2)
21.7 ***
22.7 SrS (1.5 + .2, CD until 43.7)
24.4 ES (1.5 + .2, CD until 30.4)
26.1 AS (1.5 + .2, CD until 36.1)
27.8 SS (1.8 + .2)
29.8 ***
etc.
So what we see here is an average of only about 1 SS per ES (and this doesn't include LnL procs). If that's what you're seeing, then that seems pretty reasonable.
I'm going to guess that there are two primary factors here:
1. How "tight" you get your shots. I used 200ms because that feels about where I am currently. If I could find a good GCD timer, I think I could probably shave half of that off.
2. Smartly deciding when to delay to allow for a preemption by a higher-priority shot that isn't *quite* off cooldown yet. I use two rows of TellMeWhen buttons to try and gauge this. That works pretty well for me, I think.
He explains that they are trying to get damage done more in parity (in PvP and PvE). This just goes to reinforce his comments about MM being where they want hunter DPS despite that fact it falls behind in most encounters with little to no movement and way behind with a lot of movement and/or pet unfriendly encounters.
As far as I can tell he has not posted what the coefficient change was.
GC just confirmed a hotfix nerf to explosive shot coefficient
"We made a hotfix recently to lower the coefficient of Explosive Shot. Sorry we didn't get a chance to announce the change ahead of time. We don't typically do patch notes for hotfixes so we don't have a system in place to always broadcast these before they happen.
We are in the process of making some changes to get damage done more in parity (in PvP and PvE). If there are other classes far ahead of you on the damage meters, chances are good they will see some nerfs to their damage soon too.
Overall, we are trying to make changes in a more timely manner so that players won't feel like they are stuck with a bug or other issue forever. We won't be able to get every issue fixed overnight, but it's a start."
I noticed a lot of parses of steady shot/auto shot dmg being lowered too, although the data is not as consistent as the lower explosive shot dmg.
Anyone know what the new calculation for explosive shot is? Seemed to have lost a 5-10% dmg which could mean a 2-4% overall hunter dmg nerf.
I couldn't find the option, so instead I made an inverse of my old SS notification (no sound obviously), lowered opacity and changed the animation to the little dot. Now I have timer when it is up and a very obvious do it now" when it is down.
Ill see if I can figure out an animation for it. You could possibly set animation time to zero, and only the timer will show up. I like having a visual reminder that it is up, rather then when it comes down, since it is such a long duration.
Originally Posted by Kajsa
Thayer, you seem set up pretty well with your auras, with the exception of your ES dot timer. Every time you wait for that to finish ticking down you lose the travel time of the shot, so it could be almost an extra second per lock and load proc if you're at sniper training range.
It's for this reason I still am using (though I have auras for lnl/steady/hunter mark ect..) a quartz custom timer that starts when I shoot explosive not when it hits the target; its not uncommon for me to see a good half second difference between when I could shoot without overwriting and when the dot actually falls off.
I don't fire when the timer is up. I mentioned in the video that my timing was off, because I was testing difference in travel time depending on range. I usually fire at 00 30 - 00 70, depending on my distance from the target. You have to stay aware that the timer is for the duration of the DOT on the mob, and there is no way around having to time your shots like this for LNL procs. The quartz timer might help in regards to monitoring the firing instead of the actual DOT. I tired to set it up to start a 2 second timer on firing, but it would not let me run two auras directly associated with Explosive Shot.
Originally Posted by Mortalshot
Was EW procced while testing on the dummy? Because that would account for the numbers being close to what the tooltip shows .
Probadly. I was thinking it had to be a lot going against me when I ran the short test, and if you read my other threads, I don't bear alot of weight on short tests. The ablove test confirms what i thught might be occurring, but i did not have time to test it out.
Originally Posted by Iru
Thayer, did you set these buttons up as global effects or character effects?
Character effects. Global effects would show every one else's ES DOT, Serpent DOT, etc. and that wouldn't help you a lot.
Originally Posted by Korvek
GC just confirmed a hotfix nerf to explosive shot coefficient
"We made a hotfix recently to lower the coefficient of Explosive Shot. Sorry we didn't get a chance to announce the change ahead of time. We don't typically do patch notes for hotfixes so we don't have a system in place to always broadcast these before they happen.
We are in the process of making some changes to get damage done more in parity (in PvP and PvE). If there are other classes far ahead of you on the damage meters, chances are good they will see some nerfs to their damage soon too.
Overall, we are trying to make changes in a more timely manner so that players won't feel like they are stuck with a bug or other issue forever. We won't be able to get every issue fixed overnight, but it's a start."
I noticed a lot of parses of steady shot/auto shot dmg being lowered too, although the data is not as consistent as the lower explosive shot dmg.
Anyone know what the new calculation for explosive shot is? Seemed to have lost a 5-10% dmg which could mean a 2-4% overall hunter dmg nerf.
Well this is nice. How come we always get hit first? I suspect it got nerfed to RAP*0.14, or the additive coefficients got reduced. I won't have time to try to confirm this until later.
I don't fire when the timer is up. I mentioned in the video that my timing was off, because I was testing difference in travel time depending on range. I usually fire at 00 30 - 00 70, depending on my distance from the target. You have to stay aware that the timer is for the duration of the DOT on the mob, and there is no way around having to time your shots like this for LNL procs. The quartz timer might help in regards to monitoring the firing instead of the actual DOT. I tired to set it up to start a 2 second timer on firing, but it would not let me run two auras directly associated with Explosive Shot.
The firing time is all you care about though, since unless the distance to the mob is changing, the constant travel time will guarantee delays in firing will map to equal delays in application - since there's no way to apply an ES DoT without firing an ES, why do you care about monitoring the DoT itself?
Survival is still stupidly better DPS than both MM and BM. It got nerfed because Hunters in good gear were 3-4 shotting people in PvP.
The frustrating thing is that it's simply pushed a return to S3+S4. Long, drawn out games that necessitate draining. I had a few games last night vs resto shaman/druid + dps combos which were utterly frustrating - unable to burst down either the healer or the DPS, even with Aimed up near on 100% of the time. I've not uploaded our parse of Naxx/Sartharion yet but now I'm worried as to what the numbers will show up. I'm amazed this was considered important enough to hotfix.
The frustrating thing is that it's simply pushed a return to S3+S4. Long, drawn out games that necessitate draining. I had a few games last night vs resto shaman/druid + dps combos which were utterly frustrating - unable to burst down either the healer or the DPS, even with Aimed up near on 100% of the time. I've not uploaded our parse of Naxx/Sartharion yet but now I'm worried as to what the numbers will show up. I'm amazed this was considered important enough to hotfix.
To be fair, it was being complained about LOUDLY by basically everyone but Hunters. I'm wondering if they did the same thing to Arcane Barrage, though.
How can you help?
I can shoot things and then make my pet move toward them.
I'm amazed this was considered important enough to hotfix.
Hotfixes tend to be done entirely because they can be... regardless of urgency. I suspect Blizzard is in the process of a final tuning pass before putting 3.1 onto the PTR, and will be tweaking all manner of things in the coming weeks. The fact that SV Hunters (and Fury Warriors) got hit first just means those tweaks were the easiest to do.
TBH, I'm having trouble caring about the exact numbers put out by the various DPS specs at the moment. Current raiding content is too trivial for it to really matter, and there are indications of significant hunter changes coming in 3.1, which will probably invalidate a lot of the current theorycraft anyway.
The firing time is all you care about though, since unless the distance to the mob is changing, the constant travel time will guarantee delays in firing will map to equal delays in application - since there's no way to apply an ES DoT without firing an ES, why do you care about monitoring the DoT itself?
As I stated, I couldn't get Power Auras to monitor both the cooldown of ES and start a 2 second timer for when it was fired. I am still messing around to see if I can make it do this, as I am trying to stay within one Mod to monitor everything. This would be optimal, but I can't get it to start 2 auras for the same command. It always predicates one over the other and only one shows up. I had to associate the 2nd timer to the target mob, instead of myself.
As bad as the 'hotfix' may sound, I did a PuG Vault(25) today and I still managed to get above 5k with ease. Even considering this isn't the best fight since you get stunned and the pet might be pushed into the clouds because of the boss it's position.
And from my overall vieuw if damage, I do think blizzard is aiming for every dps to be max around the 6k.
He explains that they are trying to get damage done more in parity (in PvP and PvE). This just goes to reinforce his comments about MM being where they want hunter DPS despite that fact it falls behind in most encounters with little to no movement and way behind with a lot of movement and/or pet unfriendly encounters.
As far as I can tell he has not posted what the coefficient change was.
Does anyone know when it was changed? If the hotfix was put in during the rolling restarts Tuesday morning here's a post nerf WWS.
Here is what I settled on for my Survival UI. It seems to work well for me, though it is a Frankenstein's monster of different addons working together.
The top bar is a quartz timer manually created with my explosive shot macro; whenever I hit ES, a 2s timer starts. This isn't timing the dot, but instead the firing time, so that I can stack LnL ES shots back to back. I had to move the Quartz "mirror" bar here, but once I did that, it worked great (timers are started just by doing "/qt 2 Explosive Shot" etc).
The bar below it is the quarts GCD spark.
Below that are various buttons from different mods. The first two buttons are actually a bartender bar, floating in my UI and set to display only in combat. I use these two to see cooldowns on my shots. You can't see it here, but the next button is offset slightly and is a TellMeWhen button from a three button TMW bar -- Lock'n'Load, Serpent Sting debuff, Explosive Shot debuff.
Below those two bars are ClassTimer bars communicating basically the same information.
This way at a glance I can see: is LNL proc'd? Which cooldown will expire next? Is SS up, how long does it have? How far into the current GCD am I? The quartz timer is great for LNL procs... just wait for it to drain, fire, drain, fire.
I found this compact representation of the various important states and timers to really help me get a hang for Survival. I wish bartender could display sub-second precision on cooldowns, though, and didn't revert to the stock pie-shaped cooldown fillin when a cd will be up within the next gcd.
<Temerity> - Now recruiting, 10.5 hrs PST schedule
Did some testing on a dummy. With 494 RAP, the minimum damage on an explosive shot was 497 after 100 explosive shots. Assuming only the coefficient got changed: 497 - 428 = 69. 69/494 = 13.97. The coefficient probably is 14% now per tick.
The frustrating thing is that it's simply pushed a return to S3+S4. Long, drawn out games that necessitate draining.
And we no longer have scorpids stacking poisons to protect the viper sting. Heck, the viper sting is no longer protected by improved stings, as I understand it.
As to the nerf - well, I can stop analysing tonight's VoA 25 to see why my DPS dropped then... (and 14% would match pretty nicely with the values I did see)
I can't remember what the coefficient was before the nerf but I seem to remember 16% per tick or 18% so a 6-12% nerf is pretty significant. Anyone been able to get some solid numbers on exactly what the coefficient is now?
I know its been discussed but don't know if it was answered. frost trap IS off the 30s SS LnL CD AND bosses will proc frost trap. Here is my parse from today with 6 LnL in a 2.5 min fight
As I stated, I couldn't get Power Auras to monitor both the cooldown of ES and start a 2 second timer for when it was fired. I am still messing around to see if I can make it do this, as I am trying to stay within one Mod to monitor everything. This would be optimal, but I can't get it to start 2 auras for the same command. It always predicates one over the other and only one shows up. I had to associate the 2nd timer to the target mob, instead of myself.
Im not sure that Power Auras can easily show a timer for a debuff, certainly you can start a timer when the debuff first shows up or something like that. What I do is I just have an aura showing me when my target has the Explosive Shot debuff, I personally make it a small one near my other timers.
Showing the CD of Explosive Shot would also be tricky and probably have to be done the same way as creating a timer for the debuff.
Im not sure that Power Auras can easily show a timer for a debuff, certainly you can start a timer when the debuff first shows up or something like that. What I do is I just have an aura showing me when my target has the Explosive Shot debuff, I personally make it a small one near my other timers.
Showing the CD of Explosive Shot would also be tricky and probably have to be done the same way as creating a timer for the debuff.
A solution I found was the old AfterCast mod (avaialbe at wowinterface).
This will make a Quartz Timers pop only after a successful cast with the following macro command
/aftercast /qt EDot 2
The problem with this method is that AfterCast hasn't been updated since WOtLK and it has a tendency to spam error messages. This can be commented out in the LUA file for Aftercast.
In the end it wasn't for me and I just got use to timing it myself based on the DoT timer via TellMeWhen. I think it has the potential to do what a lot of people seem to want though.
With about 300 haste I'm (soft) nearly capped but it seems more auto shots is better than Serpent Sting + Aimed Shot ?
What about 05/14/52 using Aimed Shot and IAoH ?
02/04/09, 5:24 PM
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