parttimehanyou

I've experienced similar discrepancies also between spreadsheet dps and Patchwerk kills as well. The spreadsheet tells me I should be doing 5500+ dps with raid buffs, but in reality it is closer to 4400-4600 optimally for me in that fight. Our kill time is around 3:10 or so, so it would seem to fit in with the above posts.

I've tried to read as much as I could in here to up my DPS as much as possible, but at times I start thinking I'm doing something wrong, or missing something blatantly obvious because there is such a huge discrepancy between spreadsheet and actual dps. It is likely a combination of small factors, not the least of which is raid buffs which may or may not be present in my usual group.

The spreadsheet says I should be doing ~2900 dps with only self buffs, and for the most part it is pretty close. I average around ~2500 on a targeting dummy with only that.

 

Bovii

Actually, while not a stupid question, it isn't something that you have to worry about post patch (might have come in via last maintenance) as you auto-learn all of the ranks on Explosive Shot. It was a bug that you didn't as this is the way it worked for all other abilities (you learn max rank by level of Aimed Shot and all other classes do so as well). I altered my SV spec last night due to some gear changes and, unlike two weeks ago, there was no need to train additional ranks nor was there even the option on the trainer.

 

noth

You still have to train it the first time, Bovii, it's just that you don't have to *re* train your abilities once you spec out and back into them. It's a change that landed sometime in the middle of last xpac.

 

Ryas

Exactly. For a lot of people, this was the first time they spec'd into Explosive Shot, and afterward they didn't train the later ranks. Once you train them, even if you spec in and out of it, you'll always get the highest rank available.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...nterweapon.jpg

 

nakka

As stated in my last WWS, frost trap procs LnL off raid bosses AND is on a seperate CD as serpent sting procs. I just noticed that proccing LnL from frost traps has NO CD. So you can spec resourcefulness, get a LnL every 24 secs, and a chance to proc it between those 24s with serpent sting.

 

Trickytrout

This was discovered over 10 pages ago.

 

Hellifiknow

After doing some thought on frost traps proccing LnL I figured I would try and fiddle with some specs myself to see what I could come up with. I have used a number of different survival based builds recently to try and determine the best one. I've tried 6/14/51, 1/18/52 and so on. After looking at it today I figure I can up my personal best DPS by a fair amount with the upcoming changes to Sniper Training by using this build:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Not sure if my choice of talents is 100% sound yet but I believe it may work well to trap dance with the new Sniper training, should trap dancing not be nerfed or changed.

 

Thayer

You have enough Haste from your gear that you only need to take 1 point in iAotH (glyphed of course) to get the most potential out of that talent. You can spend the extra 2 points in either Imp Stings, or Hunting party.

Don't mind my kitty, those are just love bites...

 

Blocknock

I like your spec but there is a few things that I might change. As Thayer said, you do have enough haste to only need 1 point in iAotH, Personally I would put one of those points in Focused aim, take out that 16 hit rating gem as you'll still be at the hit cap, put in a little more agi and finish off your expose weakness. With the amount of agility you have, plus getting a few more by swapping out that gem, the bonus your going to get off that critt is going to be insane. Even at 1425 your getting 25% of that stacking on top, which would put you at 1781 agility. Which will also give you a greater dps overall. Going from a 66% chance to a 100% chance.

 

alarge

Wait, what? Did you actually model this in the spreadsheet before giving this advice? Note that hit from Focused Aim does not transfer to the pet, so at the cost of 16 hit, you've lost your pet a full 1% hit. The impact of this is less for SV than for BM, but the two are not equivalent.

Second, you almost never need 3 points in Expose Weakness. If you're running around 40% crit when raid buffed and are getting 8 shots in 7 seconds, then you have roughly 1 - (.733)^8 ~= 92% chance of having the proc up.

And where are you getting a 25% increase to agility? Expose Weakness increases AP, not agility (it increases it by 25% of your agility).

 

Blocknock

Ok ya, sorry about that, was tired drunk last night so totally messed up on the ap/agi issue, dunno where the hell that came from. Yes, losing 1% to your pet is not much of an impact with sv to bm as the % of pet dmg is less, but even with the loss of the 1% to your pet wouldn't having the extra in agi or ap do more dmg overall rather then having the extra chance your pet won't miss? Also, wouldn't having a 100% chance to keeping your EW up do more dmg overall then having a 92% chance? I'm not saying your advice is wrong I was just giving my opinion.

Ok so even if not wanting to put 3/3 in EW, I guess another option would be to put that last point in Imp Stings, or GftT. I wasn't really trying to say it was better or worse, just by simply looking at the bonuses I was stating what I would feel would be the most benificial.

 

KraxisSingular

Well if you look at EW alone then yes 3 points is more damage than 2. But you have to compare it to what else is out there. And while Survival is full of fairly bad talents overall, the measly 5% better uptime for EW on 3 points over 2 is just not worth it.

 

Blocknock

OK so I ran it thru the spreadsheet, against my spec the dps does go up by only using a 4/5 MT and puting that extra point somewhere else. I stand corrected.

 

Hellifiknow

My models may have been off. I figured that the points in imp stings was a better choice also but my spreadsheet said otherwise. The autoshot gain was slightly higher than the imp stings gain. I'll have to retest it and see what I get. As for going for Hunting Party, my raids normally have 3-4 providers of replenishment so it seemed redundant for me to pick it up. I may remodel imp stings vs imp hawk and see what I get. I think I may have forgotten to account for the glyph.

As for the 16 hit gem, I've lost the rolls on 3 Surge Needle rings so far and haven't seen another in about a month. Once I get that, I'll be putting another agi gem in the helm. But for right now I'm sitting almost right at this hit cap so I'd like to keep it.

 

Goto

Quick question, pretty sure somone will be able to give me a yes or no answer. Talent in mind is 'Point of no Escape' (Increased crit chance vs targets 'affected' by your frost trap) so, does this work vs bosses in PvE?

Im pretty sure answer will be No but wondering if any testing has been done, I mean, the boss will trigger the trap (meaning not 100% immune) but is immune to its effect, will the boss have a hidden debuff that works with the talent but is not slowed by its effect?

Thanks in advance for answer.

 

Aëdes

I happened to think about grabbing this screenie in the middle of a 10m Sartharion fight.
It seemed like a great chance to try out the trap dancing thing since you have to run up to the boss anyway

ImageShack - Image Hosting :: nonedo7.jpg

It got a little corrupted, but it's there (and probably wins the prize for worst screen shot ever)

I ran up into the safe zone in the wall of fire and stayed away from the potential cleave/tailswipe zones.

The trap never went off. I was pretty deep inside the hit box, what appears to be right under the belly of the beast, and the trap still didn't trigger.

I am formally casting my vote for the Sniper Training camp. There's just a lot more fights where max range is possible (even desireble) and the increased crit chance is enough of a perk to justfy spending the points (and probably a glyph slot) there versus points spent in whatever flavor of improved trap ability is available.

 

Esoth

Hit box and trap trigger area is a known problem. For Sarth, you might want to consider using traps on whelps/elementals instead. That would also make it easier to avoid tail whips and probably involves a lot less movement.

 

Aëdes

Probably, but hey I was already there. We have everyone run back and forth to ease the healing burden. I just happened to think about it while waiting for the flame wall to go by. I had heard people talk about the hit box thing, but had never actually seen it until then. Was kind of hoping to show others that might not have experienced it themselves yet.

btw... I reserve the right to change my vote after 3.1.

 

Blocknock

Actually have a question about professions for a SV spec. I was wondering by keeping LW and dropping Skin, what would be a good pro to pick up for bonuses. Granted I'm sure it would cost a fortune to lvl, would like to only do it once lol.

 

Rivkah

Skinning is not a bad profession honestly- 32 crit rating is pretty good and it's a money maker. The best in terms of stat bonuses would be JC or BS because you could get agil instead of crit, but the gain wouldn't be that high over what you already have.

 

Nachti

Playing around with the spreadsheet a little, this is what occured to me:

The two "best" builds would be 6/14/51 or 1/19/51.

The spreadsheets features a little better numbers for the first one, but it doesn't allow you to pick Aimed Shot since the better numbers are povided by Focused Fire. Thus, you lose mobility (You cannt use Multi Shot while running). On stationary fights, it might be better, but that's only ~50 dps fully buffed.

The second picks Focused Aim, so you got more freedom chosing your equip. Focused Aim *is* the better choice because there are no other talents worth picking. Removing that point, putting it into Imp AotH or even EW and regemming results in lower dps (at least that is what the spreadsheet says, though it kinda reflects my own feelings about FA).

This is without trap dancing. With trap dancing, the 1/19/51 build shifts into a 1/16/54 build, simply putting the points out of Imp Stings and into Resourcefulness (assuming the Frost Trap issue is not a bug and won't get fixed).

Also, I'd always pick Hunting Party since 3/3 EW doesn't really push your dps and sometimes I'm the only replenishment bringer in our 10-man raid.

 

Lidzkog

I see the mention of having a "haste" cap on an above mentioned hunter being reccomended to not put to many points into IAotH. The way I am basing my rotation is off a 5/5 IAotH and meterorite whetstone procs. What I feel is my best rotation is to always use multishot before I pop off 2 steady shots (I typically have time for either 3 steady shots or 1 multi/2 steady) and if either one of the two haste procs, I continously spam steady shot. I've read through much of this thread but can't seem to find the above mentioned roof on haste rating if you will. I'm not looking to gain the over time extra auto shot, but I just need it confirmed that we are still aiming for a 1.5 second steady shot cast time. Thanks.

(Also, I'm guilty of forgetting to train higher ranks of explosive too ;D)

 

Cattiebrie

A) The haste cap is listed in the first post: 523 Haste Rating.

B) Haste is not nearly as good post 3.0.8. Reaching the Haste cap was a solid investment for Surv before the Explosive buff. Now, not so much.

C) All of this has been gone over repeatedly in this thread.

(Edit: Had 553 as the haste cap, hit 5 too many times. And yes, 522.7 is what the first post says, good luck achieving that specific number.)

 

Londrai

Wasn't haste "soft-capped" at 522,7 hasterating?

 

Rezdan

Do fractions really matter? You can't get a fraction of a rating so 523 is the veritable cap.
Just like 263 is the hit cap and not 262.XXXX.