The Survival Hunter in WotLK - Page 53

Wakeman · 01/22/09, 5:24 AM

A minor point about mining: Toughness gives 50 sta instead of 500 hp now. So it is 55 sta for SV hunters, and 55 x 0.3 = 16.5 AP. Well, still insignificant comparing to benefit from other professions...

Jerem · 01/22/09, 5:38 AM

Originally Posted by Nzambi

Anyone else having the issue with the tooltip of SS not showing the haste reduction in cast time like it should? I have 25oish haste and mine still reads 2 sec cast.

Also....Need to Know seems to be a good addon to managed cd's and such for me. i use it in conjunction with poweraura so i have a timer and a huge glowing icon. However I was curious if you can add pet buffs to it? It seems to have the "unit to monitor: pet" option but I tried selecting it and cant seem to get Rabid or CotW to show up. Anyone know what Im doing wrong?

Make sure you use the correct capitalization for the name ("Rabid", not "rabid"), and that you select it as "buff, show when present, unit to monitor: pet", not as "cooldown, show when unusable" (the default -I think- for a spell that could be both a cooldown and a buff).

Keryon · 01/22/09, 5:46 AM

I'm trying a Survival spec since yesterday, I've been BM from TBC and on so I'm pretty sure that I don't yet have a perfect handing of the rotation.
While nuking the target dummy, I was first trying out a 4/16/51 spec with Aimed, weaving it into the rotation as soon as the cd was over.
Yet, after trying the same build but without Aimed, I couldn't see a noticeable boost.
So, I tried it out in a Naxx raid our guild had:
WWS Report - Patchwerk - Naxx(heroic)

Aside my not-yet-optimized handing of the spec, and seeing other hunters linked in this thread topping meters without it, I think that issues like sudden lag spikes, fps drops (Death and Decay urghh..) and things like that could hold back the next SS (or possibly the next two) just enough to make the insertion of Aimed in the rotation not so worth after all.

Are people getting overall noticeable boost in dps while using Aimed in their rotation?

Corbetti · 01/22/09, 5:58 AM

Originally Posted by Cilithan

I've edited the first post in accordance to recent discussion on these forums. Hopefully this may reduce the number of already answered questions. Could some of you more experienced players take a look at it and send me a PM...

Posted rather than PM'd for peer review.

Talents:
- Perhaps mention Savage Strikes and Resourcefulness for trap-dancing builds (vs full 3/3 Hawk Eye and Sniper Training).
- Might also be worth copying the IAotH/haste table from post #59.
- Focussed Fire kind of mixed up in the MM talents (nit-picking here!)

Pets (cunning):
- I use a Wind Serpent, but I wonder if a land-based Serpent might do as much/more damage from its DoT since the base ability damage is higher (104-136 vs 80-120 for LB). Anyone know what the respective coefficients are? LB can of course crit, but the crit rate is pretty low. I'm afraid I don't have any empirical numbers.

Professions (Gathering):
- Mining now grants 50 stamina rather than 500 health. This is a nice, if minor, boost for SV. [Apologies, this overlapped with another poster mentioning this.]

Zeel · 01/22/09, 6:34 AM

I specced to survival after last night's 25man Naxx where I was still playing BM.
BM spec just didn't stand a chance against our other hunter (surv) or anyone
(dropped 10 ranks in recount).

now I used a lot of time to familiarize myself with surv and how to play with it. Also adjusted my
talents so that while they would still serve me best they were "proven worthy" by other survival
hunters after the patch. Just about all of the hunters that I studied, used 3-4 points in Improved Aspect of the Hawk
and no points at all in Improved Stings.
Taken into consideration that survival hunter is keeping sting in the target as often as he/she can and
the fact that according to spreadsheet imp. stings gives clearly better dps than imp. hawk how come most of
the hunters (that I consider good players) still spec imp. hawk over imp. stings?
Is there something I'm missing here and if so, what is it?

Cilithan · 01/22/09, 7:04 AM

Originally Posted by Zeel

Just about all of the hunters that I studied, used 3-4 points in Improved Aspect of the Hawk
and no points at all in Improved Stings.
Taken into consideration that survival hunter is keeping sting in the target as often as he/she can and
the fact that according to spreadsheet imp. stings gives clearly better dps than imp. hawk how come most of
the hunters (that I consider good players) still spec imp. hawk over imp. stings?
Is there something I'm missing here and if so, what is it?

It might be because of the Glyph. I myself have 1 point in ImpAo/tHawk at the moment because with the Glyph it's a good return for 1 talentpoint. Improved Stings is nice, but Serpent Sting in practice makes up 6% of my damage done on average. To boost that by 30% would be a 2% damageincrease at best which is not all that good for 3 talentpoints. Since I have manaproblems in my 10-men Guild for instance, I prefer 3 points in Efficiency over Imp Stings.

Don't a lot of speccs have both btw? Points in Hawk and Stings I mean.

P.S. Thnx Corbetti, I'll edit your remarks in a bit later. One question though, is Resourcefullness still worth discussing/mentioning with the 30 sec internal CD of Lock and Load? It seems that all Resourcefullness does now is save you some mana, you're better off with points in Efficiency then.

Fierra · 01/22/09, 8:39 AM

Originally Posted by vongimi

So ive been hearing that the Raptor is best DPS for survival hunters, but that is with 1/2 in Focused Fire. Without that 1/2 Focused fire, is the raptor still the best choice? Or is it still the cat?

Savage Rend procs can happen at very unfortunate times, like on Heigan transition, or when you have to pull your pet back from Flame Wall on Sarth. There's just too many factors weakening Savage Rend when it has a low procrate.

From the WotLK spreadsheet thread. Raptors for SV are chancey, at best. Search a bit for the entire line of reasoning, but the bare bones is that Savage Rend, like it says, is not as powerful as a spreadsheet will make it out to be except under optimum circumstances.

Originally Posted by Cilithan

It might be because of the Glyph. I myself have 1 point in ImpAo/tHawk at the moment because with the Glyph it's a good return for 1 talentpoint. Improved Stings is nice, but Serpent Sting in practice makes up 6% of my damage done on average. To boost that by 30% would be a 2% damageincrease at best which is not all that good for 3 talentpoints. Since I have manaproblems in my 10-men Guild for instance, I prefer 3 points in Efficiency over Imp Stings.

Don't a lot of speccs have both btw? Points in Hawk and Stings I mean.

P.S. Thnx Corbetti, I'll edit your remarks in a bit later. One question though, is Resourcefullness still worth discussing/mentioning with the 30 sec internal CD of Lock and Load? It seems that all Resourcefullness does now is save you some mana, you're better off with points in Efficiency then.

Not in my opinion; you're better off spending those 3 points in either Sniper training for the Kill Shot crit, or I personally put them in Expert Tactician for better burst dps when it procs. Feel free to examine my own talent spec; it's what I plan to keep, except for sliding the 2 points in FA to IAotH once I get my hit up.

juicetan · 01/22/09, 9:08 AM

I'm running a slightly funky build, just because I've chosen to be the marker in my guild.

5/15/51

The spreadsheet showed that I'd do 100dps more with Aimed Shot, but I figure an additional 150 RAP bonus is better for the raid (we usually have 3 hunters).

muymanwell · 01/22/09, 9:15 AM

So I respec'd sv last night to see if i had any major dps increase after my BM took a considerable hit after the patch. I went with this SPEC, a cat pet, and SrS, AS and IAotH glyphs. I did a test run of Heroic Halls of Stone, and noticed I was barely pushing 1400dps on trash (doing ES, SrS, AS, SS, SS, SS, ES, etc). However, when I got to a single target boss, I was able to push over 2,200. Both of these numbers seem low, and I can attribute some of the drop to working out shot rotation, etc, but this is at least a 1k drop from what I was seeing in BM.

Am I missing something here?

Fierra · 01/22/09, 9:19 AM

Originally Posted by juicetan

I'm running a slightly funky build, just because I've chosen to be the marker in my guild.

5/15/51

The spreadsheet showed that I'd do 100dps more with Aimed Shot, but I figure an additional 150 RAP bonus is better for the raid (we usually have 3 hunters).

Haven't found the exact formula yet, but I remember that about 14 RAP = 1dps. So, the 150 rap you're giving is slightly better than 10 dps for each of you. Take the 100 dps increase; you're only granting about 30dps increase with IHM between the three of you.

Originally Posted by muymanwell

So I respec'd sv last night to see if i had any major dps increase after my BM took a considerable hit after the patch. I went with this SPEC, a cat pet, and SrS, AS and IAotH glyphs. I did a test run of Heroic Halls of Stone, and noticed I was barely pushing 1400dps on trash (doing ES, SrS, AS, SS, SS, SS, ES, etc). However, when I got to a single target boss, I was able to push over 2,200. Both of these numbers seem low, and I can attribute some of the drop to working out shot rotation, etc, but this is at least a 1k drop from what I was seeing in BM.

Am I missing something here?

Your armory links to an error; update that so we can examine your gear.
The following is all speculation based on you saying you came from BM.
If you have switched from BM to SV, you probably need to re-gem for Agility, first off; also make sure that you are now prioritizing Agility/Int/STA for your gear, in that order. Don't ever use SrS ahead of Aimed, that would depress your damage. Make sure you are watching for LnL procs, and above all practice. SV is VERY different from BM, so if you just respecced, don't expect your damage to catch up quite yet.

Fierra · 01/22/09, 9:24 AM

EDIT: delete again, fraggin double-post, forgot I was in the same thread. Merging with above.

muymanwell · 01/22/09, 9:33 AM

Originally Posted by Fierra

Your armory links to an error; update that so we can examine your gear.
The following is all speculation based on you saying you came from BM.
If you have switched from BM to SV, you probably need to re-gem for Agility, first off; also make sure that you are now prioritizing Agility/Int/STA for your gear, in that order. Don't ever use SrS ahead of Aimed, that would depress your damage. Make sure you are watching for LnL procs, and above all practice. SV is VERY different from BM, so if you just respecced, don't expect your damage to catch up quite yet.

Ya, armory seems to be a bit screwy right now (when isn't it), but I was mostly geared for AGI as it was...trying to pull my gear from elsewhere..

Sadly, this is a little out of date, but still mostly what I've got (this site isn't moving very fast either):

IMBA

eviln1 · 01/22/09, 9:44 AM

Haven't found the exact formula yet, but I remember that about 14 RAP = 1dps. So, the 150 rap you're giving is slightly better than 10 dps for each of you. Take the 100 dps increase; you're only granting about 30dps increase with IHM between the three of you.

Not quite true; the formula 14RAP = 1DPS is only valid for white damage. To have a better idea of how much your IHM + Glyph is actually worth, you should play around with the spreadsheet for every hunter that's present. Just hand-adjust it to give 150AP to each and see if it yields more than 33DPS per hunter.

Macloud · 01/22/09, 9:52 AM

Originally Posted by muymanwell

So I respec'd sv last night to see if i had any major dps increase after my BM took a considerable hit after the patch. I went with this SPEC, a cat pet, and SrS, AS and IAotH glyphs. I did a test run of Heroic Halls of Stone, and noticed I was barely pushing 1400dps on trash (doing ES, SrS, AS, SS, SS, SS, ES, etc). However, when I got to a single target boss, I was able to push over 2,200. Both of these numbers seem low, and I can attribute some of the drop to working out shot rotation, etc, but this is at least a 1k drop from what I was seeing in BM.

Am I missing something here?

It sounds like (from the rotation you linked), you're missing a few ES here and there. As far as I know, AS takes the place of 1 Steady shot, similar to how Serpent takes the place of 1 Steady Shot, and therefore if you were doing the normal rotation of ES, Serpent, Steady x2, Es, Steady x3, etc. you'd want to make sure that you aren't adding additional Steadies on top of the fillers. Remember that once you throw up a filler, you aren't doing 3 Steadies after. The filler counts as one. If you forget that, you WILL see a DPS loss.

muymanwell · 01/22/09, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Macloud

It sounds like (from the rotation you linked), you're missing a few ES here and there. As far as I know, AS takes the place of 1 Steady shot, similar to how Serpent takes the place of 1 Steady Shot, and therefore if you were doing the normal rotation of ES, Serpent, Steady x2, Es, Steady x3, etc. you'd want to make sure that you aren't adding additional Steadies on top of the fillers. Remember that once you throw up a filler, you aren't doing 3 Steadies after. The filler counts as one. If you forget that, you WILL see a DPS loss.

I kinda guessed it was mostly do to my rotation (and partially to my inability to get outside 30y for sniper training)...Thanks for the input. I really need to get my timing down on this.