Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Hunters

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01/23/09, 10:30 AM   #871
Har
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Hunter
 
Drenden
Originally Posted by Tobin View Post
I think it's a bit backward to have to fill in gaps by spamming your least powerful ability. Which other class does this to that extent? As was mentioned, it invokes the GCD quite often delays the source of your primary DPS (Explosive). It basically forces you to use a /stopcasting macro for every other more powerful instant shot.
I don't think a stopcasting command would always work. Any time other than when the GCD is finished and you're still casting steady (with pushback or if you're not hastecapped), stopcasting wouldn't let you cast your explosive any faster than waiting for the shot to finish.


Offline
Old 01/23/09, 11:27 AM   #872
DMCASHEW04
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Zul'Jin
I don't believe an addon like that would help.

1. Your on a complicated boss, therefore you'll likely be moving, therefore its just gonna mess up the rotation.
2. Your on a tank/spank, therefore the only thing you should be doing is looking at your buttons.

Just my thoughts. And it could just be my play style, but I'm sure all the BM hunters that spec'ed Survival this week would like something like this.

Offline
Old 01/23/09, 11:28 AM   #873
freeform
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Anub'arak (EU)
Originally Posted by Proudmoone View Post
Part of the reason that sniper training is being taken is due to the secondary description that increases the critical chance of your Kill Shot by 5/10/15%.

[..]

Hope that helps!
Ahh, I was under the impression that all effects from ST only apply if the range requirement is met. Thank you for clrearing that up.

Offline
Old 01/23/09, 12:08 PM   #874
Fierra
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Fenris
Originally Posted by DMCASHEW04 View Post
Just my thoughts. And it could just be my play style, but I'm sure all the BM hunters that spec'ed Survival this week would like something like this.
Not bashing anyone, but all the BM hunters that are switching to SV this week need to realize as well that there is NO easy SV rotation. I'm not bashing those that wanted to change, but I have seen way too many posts now with people asking for hand-holding in this spec. The ideal rotations have been posted....over and over again. There is a set shot priority that is generally agreed on:

Explosive -> Aimed (if specced)/ Multi -> SrS -> Steady

No, there is not a macro at this time that can weave these together without a significant loss in dps.

Next, Lock and Load procs: again, this thread has covered many, many times good addons for this if you are having problems; simply scroll back through the last few pages; at least 4 different addons have been mentioned in case one is unfavorable to you. They are all fairly customizable. There are two ways to deal with LnL procs:

ES -> .5s delay -> ES -> .5s delay -> ES (my preferred method unless sting/HM is dropping off)
or
ES -> SS/SrS/HM/Aimed -> ES -> SS/SrS/HM/Aimed -> ES

The first has been showed to be a dps increase, although marginal; if you have lag of any kind, interleaving your shots as in the second example is the way to go. NEVER clip an ES tick, or you will lose sustantial dps.

Next, Sniper Training vs Trapdancing. Both are dps increases; both are generally different playstyles. Neither is inherently superior; if you don't like trapdancing, don't. Take Sniper Training and stay way back instead. Like being at the front? Learn how to trapdance your LnL procs with each boss. It's that simple. Resourcefullness is, at this time, a waste of talent points in most circumstances due to the 30s hidden CD on LnL. Yes, Frost Trap currently bypasses this, but this is obviously a bug, so I would not recommend getting too used to it. Spend your talent points in either Sniper Training (for increased KS crit) or Tactician to get to ES.

Hunting Party: Due to the lack of other available good talents, at least 2 points in HP is usually recommended; you bring a little more utility as a SV hunter this way, and 2/5 is usually enough for it to stay up 90% or more of the time with a 30% crit rate unbuffed.

Take your time with SV; it takes quite a while to get used to all the priorities and choices at any given moment. Yes, it is more busy. Yes, choices abound where previously there were few. It isn't terribly complicated in the end, however. I hope this general summation helps though!

United States Offline
Old 01/23/09, 12:17 PM   #875
Berfert
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Icecrown
Originally Posted by Jerem View Post
A TellMeWhen bar configured with
1) Skill: Explosive Shot, cooldown, show when available
2) Skill: Aimed Shot, cooldown, show when available
3) Skill: Serpent sting, debuff, unit to monitor: target, show when absent
4) Skill: Kill shot, cooldown, show when available

Will do exactly that.

You can add a display for LnL procs (Skill: Lock and Load, buff, unit to monitor: player, show when present) and a DoT timer for ES explosions (Skill: Explosive shot, debuff, unit to monitor: target, show when present, show timer), in order not to lose ES ticks if you want.

A possible improvement would be to have all this condensed in a single priority icon-sized frame, the way ShockAndAwe (Enh. shaman) or SqueekAndAwe (Balance druid) do it.
But that would be more of a cosmetic than functionality improvement.
Honestly, I don't feel this is the case. When you can see what cooldowns are up and how long the others have left, you can make a decision (based on a variety of factors) on what to cast. It's not hard to do that with a button bar (excluding LnL procs).

What I'm talking about is something that knows your shot priorities, lag, etc, and can highlight (glowing green or such) which one should be hitting next. Basically, taking out the need to see how long ES has left before hitting SteadyShot, etc.

Offline
Old 01/23/09, 12:21 PM   #876
Berfert
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Icecrown
Originally Posted by DMCASHEW04 View Post
I don't believe an addon like that would help.

1. Your on a complicated boss, therefore you'll likely be moving, therefore its just gonna mess up the rotation.
2. Your on a tank/spank, therefore the only thing you should be doing is looking at your buttons.

Just my thoughts. And it could just be my play style, but I'm sure all the BM hunters that spec'ed Survival this week would like something like this.
The point to realize is that there isn't a shot rotation, there's a shot priority. Situation 1 is exactly the type of thing this would be designed for... you're moving around a lot and can't follow a strict rotation (1). By automatically figuring out what shot has priority next, it takes some of the load off your own mind so you can pay more attention to the fight.


1. In my mind, a shot rotation is a precalculated shot priority system, it just maps out what you need to cast when... with the assumption nothing else is impacting your casting.

Offline
Old 01/23/09, 12:39 PM   #877
Sapphique
Glass Joe
 
Sapphique's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Llane
Originally Posted by flimflam View Post
I've been playing around with the latest spreadsheet and have noticed that it's suggests 2/2 GFTT is a bigger gain then spending it as a 2nd point in IAOTH. Has anyone else noticed this?
I noticed this, and I wondered if I was doing something wrong since others seem to be reporting different things. I'm seeing a 1/19/51 replenishment build as the highest DPS, with 3/3 EW and 4/5 HP.

Offline
Old 01/23/09, 12:42 PM   #878
Bluesfear
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Kel'Thuzad
I am just wondering how is everyone using their big CD like rapid fire, trinket, Call of the wild and KC (I guess). Do you pop all of those at once and then keep using trinket, CotW and KC whenever it's off CD? And when you pop them, at the beginning of the fight, mid fight, or heroism?

Offline
Old 01/23/09, 12:45 PM   #879
Takeaim
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
<Exo>
Smolderthorn
Originally Posted by Gaj View Post
What kind of Surv numbers are people seeing on Sarth +3? Is it just a low dps fight for hunters? I respecced last night and was at the bottom of the DPS charts. I need a few better pieces and a little regemming, but that shouldn't put me 2k below most of the pack.
While my guild doesnt have the composition nor the gear to do 10 drake Sarth+3, I was only seeing around 3400 dps on 2 drake with Tenebron and Shadron. We took 2 rogues, a death knight, and me for dps. Sadly they all do more aoe damage than hunters now, especially for sarth where the add tank and myself are moving around so much.

Offline
Old 01/23/09, 12:52 PM   #880
Cobrakai
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Burning Legion
Originally Posted by Bluesfear View Post
I am just wondering how is everyone using their big CD like rapid fire, trinket, Call of the wild and KC (I guess). Do you pop all of those at once and then keep using trinket, CotW and KC whenever it's off CD? And when you pop them, at the beginning of the fight, mid fight, or heroism?
If you know exactly when you will receive Heroism, then it may be worthwhile to hold up on popping a CD, but generally speaking, you want to keep all those abilities on CD throughout the fight. An addon such as TimeToDie will help you time your CD's with the mob's remaining health.

Offline
Old 01/23/09, 12:53 PM   #881
mako
Don Flamenco
 
mako's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
<Bad>
Dragonmaw
Cooldown Usage

Originally Posted by Bluesfear View Post
I am just wondering how is everyone using their big CD like rapid fire, trinket, Call of the wild and KC (I guess). Do you pop all of those at once and then keep using trinket, CotW and KC whenever it's off CD? And when you pop them, at the beginning of the fight, mid fight, or heroism?
The usage of your cooldowns depends mostly on the fight duration, and if/when you get bloodlust (heroism).

KC is a negligible DPS increase, so just pop it on cooldown regardless of anything else. If you have a raptor, you may as well tie it to savage rend since they both share a 1 min cooldown.

On a normal 3 minute fight, with a bloodlust around 35% (execute/molten fury range) I suggest the following:
1. KC (+ Savage Rend if you use a Raptor pet) every time it's up.
2. Rapid Fire + Trinket at the start of the fight.
3. CotW during bloodlust, combined with 2nd use of your clicky-trinket.

There's no sense stacking haste buffs as a hunter, since only our whites get anything from it, and the relative value diminishes as we stack more haste buffs.

If you do not have a lust, stack CotW with rapid fire/trinket and use it at the start. On longer, you will be able to get a 2nd rapid fire which you can possibly couple with a trinket activation and a second CotW if you delay the trinket usage.

Of course, if you don't have a clicky-trinket (neither current best in slot has a "use" effect), it's worth delaying your rapid fire by a few seconds and using it when you have a trinket proc (such as the AP from mirror).

Unlike Mages, who live and die by their ability to stack cooldowns, Hunters don't have nearly as much to worry about. Effectively, the goal is just to stack any attack power buffs you can with a haste effect.

It's called Bloodlust, not Heroism. What kind of pansy name is Heroism, anyway?
<Bad> Dragonmaw US
www.damnwesuck.com
12/13 [25] Heroic - Recruiting exceptional players.

Offline
Old 01/23/09, 1:12 PM   #882
muymanwell
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Nathrezim
is there a purpose to going down the wyvern sting tree, other than nowhere else to put the points? I've noticed that no one is including ws in their shot priorities...

Offline
Old 01/23/09, 1:16 PM   #883
legomyegolas
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Malygos
Originally Posted by muymanwell View Post
is there a purpose to going down the wyvern sting tree, other than nowhere else to put the points? I've noticed that no one is including ws in their shot priorities...
To get noxious stings. It has a secondary effect of causing all dmg to be increased by 3% as long as you have serpent up.

Offline
Old 01/23/09, 1:17 PM   #884
mako
Don Flamenco
 
mako's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
<Bad>
Dragonmaw
To my knowledge, all boss mobs are immune to wyvern sting.

Additionally, the only reason it's taken (pve-wise) is because it's required in order to pick up noxious stings. 3% more damage to all of your attacks while serpent sting is active on the target is desirable enough that wasting the one point in wyvern is acceptable.

It's called Bloodlust, not Heroism. What kind of pansy name is Heroism, anyway?
<Bad> Dragonmaw US
www.damnwesuck.com
12/13 [25] Heroic - Recruiting exceptional players.

Offline
Old 01/23/09, 1:22 PM   #885
muymanwell
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Nathrezim
Originally Posted by mako View Post
To my knowledge, all boss mobs are immune to wyvern sting.

Additionally, the only reason it's taken (pve-wise) is because it's required in order to pick up noxious stings. 3% more damage to all of your attacks while serpent sting is active on the target is desirable enough that wasting the one point in wyvern is acceptable.
ahh, for some reason I thought the bonus to SrS was only if the first condition hit.

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Hunters

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Hunter] MM vs Survival Raids Deadzone The Dung Heap 2 06/20/07 8:48 PM
[Hunter] Survival Viability and Comparisons Groggan Class Mechanics 24 05/17/07 3:59 PM