The Survival Hunter in WotLK - Page 79

KraxisSingular · 02/04/09, 12:14 AM

As a recent convert to powerauras I must say I appreciated that video Thayer. I thought I was being brilliant with my spaced aurasizes and addition of Hunter's Mark. I hadn't even considered using timers properly. And the ES/AS addition I must get, I spend too much time watching my bars when I really need to pay attention elsewhere. But I have the inverted version of your Serpent Sting 'proc', in that it pops whenever I don't have it on target with a sound. The reason being that often it falls off when I have an Explosive -> Aimed lined up, which would just make the screen cluttered most of the time, rather than the time when I 'need' the clutter the most (don't tell me you are doing right, tell me if things are going wrong).
However, is it possible to set it up with a timer alone? But the visual cue comes when it reaches 0.

Will have to look at this again tomorrow while ingame.

alarge · 02/04/09, 2:05 AM

Originally Posted by cammyboy

I apologize that this question doesnt pertain to the current subject of this thread but due to the fact that i have switched to SV lately i have been looking for a Serpent Sting Macro to notify me of when i have to renew it, so i dont waste mana overlapping it or miss out on a potential LnL by forgetting to put it up. As BM i rarely used SS as i could rely on other hunters to provide the sting for my Steady Shot glyph, and as MM my chimera shot would constantly renew it. So ironically im finding tracking Serpent Sting is most important in SV spec. Another thought i have had is i've noticed that many people leave 2/3 points in EW to be able to put the point elsewhere. Is the idead of having 4/5 or even 3/5 in Master Tactician viable in order to free up some points in the SV spec to put elsewhere there has been very little discussion i have found on thsi and given the fact that most SV hunter's crit rates are so high, im surprised that there hasnt been.
Thanking you in Advance.

For Serpent Sting, you have lots of choices. I personally prefer TellMeWhen, which I can configure to pop up icons when an ability is ready to use.

Hmmm. I'm pretty sure it was determined that it must be *your* Serpent Sting for the glyph, so you should have had it up with BM also.

Regarding EW: suppose you have 40% crit rate (raid-buffed). A typical SV hunter probably averages somewhere around 7 shots in a 7-second window (3 white, 4 yellow). With 2/3 EW, for each shot you have (.4)(.666) ~= 26.7% chance to proc EW. The chance to proc it at least once per 7 seconds is 1 - (.7333)^7 ~= 89%. 3/3 EW only brings that 89% up to ~97%.

MT is totally different. 5/5 MT gives you a 10% chance chance on any ranged attack to increase your crit by 10%. 4/5 still gives you the same 10% chance, but it only increases your crit by 8%. Hunter's don't really have a feasible crit cap, so there is no point at which that extra 2% isn't valuable.

Ferretmonger · 02/04/09, 3:01 AM

Originally Posted by Phantasmique

I apologize for asking this but can anyone tell again that range mod wich shows when a hunter is at XX yards ?

I searched like three times on the last ten pages and i just cannot find it

I just use a Dogtag on my Pitbull unitframe in order to tell me if I'm further than 30yards from my target and therefore have Sniper Training active.
Here's what the code looks like:

[Outline][(if
Range(Target):Contains("35") or Range(Target):Contains("40") then
"Sniper On!":Green
end)]

If you really wanna keep it simple and just display the approximate range then just use this:

[Range(Target)]

Hope this helps.

Thayer · 02/04/09, 3:03 AM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

As a recent convert to powerauras I must say I appreciated that video Thayer. I thought I was being brilliant with my spaced aurasizes and addition of Hunter's Mark. I hadn't even considered using timers properly. And the ES/AS addition I must get, I spend too much time watching my bars when I really need to pay attention elsewhere. But I have the inverted version of your Serpent Sting 'proc', in that it pops whenever I don't have it on target with a sound. The reason being that often it falls off when I have an Explosive -> Aimed lined up, which would just make the screen cluttered most of the time, rather than the time when I 'need' the clutter the most (don't tell me you are doing right, tell me if things are going wrong).
However, is it possible to set it up with a timer alone? But the visual cue comes when it reaches 0.

Will have to look at this again tomorrow while ingame.

I believe you can have it set up to have no animations and just the timer. I set my Auras up in the overlapping circle precisely so it would come out clear. The position in the circle is as important as the color and pattern. I spent an entire raid setting it up to the right size, and I died several times while adjusting it.

Korvek · 02/04/09, 3:13 AM

Anyone notice a possible stealth nerf to explosive shot?

Went over our guild survival parses and last week, we were avging about 2100 dmg ticks and 5900 avg crits and this week we were down to about 1900 and 5300ish respectively.
Checked another guild's parse and saw the same pattern of a hunter doing 2134 hits and 5928 crits previous week but 1899, and 5364 dmg after feb 3.

A post on the wow hunter forums also had people posting concerns of a drop in dps from previous weeks. Wondering if people had any numbers to compare.

Here's previous weeks patchwerk for us (I D/Ced at 40% of fight but you can still see me and zulkist's explosive shot dmg #s)
Wow Web Stats

And here's this weeks patchwerk.
Wow Web Stats

10% nerf to EXP shot?

Thayer · 02/04/09, 3:29 AM

Here are the strings for copying the Power Auras set up I have in my video. There are six strings, so make a button for each one. Copy the entire string, and then in Power Auras, select a blank button, and click import. Paste the stinrgs below into each new button and it should copy the set up in the video. Fine tune at will. Enjoy.

Lock and Load indicator

gcd:bofalse;soundfile:stAuctionWindowOpen;owntex:bofalse;b:nu0;anim1:nu1;duration:nu0;g:nu0.6;thresholdinvert:bofalse;ignoremaj:botrue;opt2:nu0;speed:nu1;stance:nu10;icon:stInterface\Icons\Ability_Hunter_LockAndLoad;size:nu2;torsion:nu1;multiids:st;stacksOperator:st=;realaura:nu1;mine:botrue;optunitn:bofalse;x:nu1;inverse:bofalse;begin:nu0;off:bofalse;isdebuff:bofalse;textaura:bofalse;timer:bofalse;target:bofalse;combat:nu0;wowtex:bofalse;groupany:bofalse;customsound:st;timerduration:nu0;exact:bofalse;threshold:nu50;unitn:stOnly for raid/group.;bufftype:nu1;stacks:nu0;aurastextfont:nu1;party:bofalse;customtex:bofalse;focus:bofalse;isenchant:bofalse;raid:bofalse;isdebufftype:bofalse;texture:nu23;buffname:stLock and Load;anim2:nu0;opt1:nu0;r:nu1;randomcolor:bofalse;y:nu0;alpha:nu0.5;aurastext:st;customname:st;texmode:nu1;symetrie:nu2;ismounted:bofalse;targetfriend:bofalse;sound:nu12;isinraid:bofalse;finish:nu1

Explosive Shot DOT timer

gcd:bofalse;soundfile:st;owntex:bofalse;b:nu0.12156862745098;anim1:nu8;duration:nu2;g:nu0.14117647058824;thresholdinvert:bofalse;ignoremaj:botrue;opt2:nu0;speed:nu2;stance:nu10;icon:stInterface\Icons\Ability_Hunter_ExplosiveShot;size:nu2;torsion:nu1;multiids:st;stacksOperator:st=;realaura:nu1;mine:botrue;optunitn:bofalse;x:nu0;inverse:bofalse;begin:nu10;off:bofalse;isdebuff:bofalse;textaura:bofalse;timer:botrue;target:botrue;combat:nu0;wowtex:bofalse;groupany:bofalse;customsound:st;timerduration:nu2;exact:bofalse;threshold:nu50;unitn:stOnly for raid/group.;bufftype:nu2;stacks:nu0;aurastextfont:nu1;party:bofalse;customtex:bofalse;focus:bofalse;isenchant:bofalse;raid:bofalse;isdebufftype:bofalse;texture:nu11;buffname:stExplosive Shot;anim2:nu7;opt1:nu0;r:nu1;randomcolor:bofalse;y:nu0;alpha:nu1;aurastext:st;customname:st;texmode:nu1;symetrie:nu1;ismounted:bofalse;targetfriend:bofalse;sound:nu0;isinraid:bofalse;finish:nu3

Serpent sting timer

gcd:bofalse;soundfile:st;owntex:bofalse;b:nu0.13725490196078;anim1:nu7;duration:nu19;g:nu1;thresholdinvert:bofalse;ignoremaj:botrue;opt2:nu0;speed:nu1;stance:nu10;icon:stInterface\Icons\Ability_Hunter_Quickshot;size:nu2;torsion:nu1;multiids:st;stacksOperator:st=;realaura:nu1;mine:botrue;optunitn:bofalse;x:nu0;inverse:bofalse;begin:nu6;off:bofalse;isdebuff:bofalse;textaura:bofalse;timer:botrue;target:botrue;combat:nu0;wowtex:bofalse;groupany:bofalse;customsound:st;timerduration:nu0;exact:bofalse;threshold:nu50;unitn:stOnly for raid/group.;bufftype:nu2;stacks:nu0;aurastextfont:nu1;party:bofalse;customtex:bofalse;focus:bofalse;isenchant:bofalse;raid:bofalse;isdebufftype:bofalse;texture:nu17;buffname:stserpent sting;anim2:nu4;opt1:nu0;r:nu0.019607843137255;randomcolor:bofalse;y:nu0;alpha:nu1;aurastext:st;customname:st;texmode:nu1;symetrie:nu2;ismounted:bofalse;targetfriend:bofalse;sound:nu0;isinraid:bofalse;finish:nu1

Explosive Shot CD timer

gcd:bofalse;soundfile:stAuctionWindowOpen;owntex:bofalse;b:nu1;anim1:nu5;duration:nu5;g:nu0.46274509803922;thresholdinvert:bofalse;ignoremaj:botrue;opt2:nu0;speed:nu2;stance:nu10;icon:stInterface\Icons\Ability_Hunter_ExplosiveShot;size:nu2;torsion:nu1;multiids:st;stacksOperator:st=;realaura:nu1;mine:botrue;optunitn:bofalse;x:nu0;inverse:bofalse;begin:nu6;off:bofalse;isdebuff:bofalse;textaura:bofalse;timer:botrue;target:bofalse;combat:nu0;wowtex:bofalse;groupany:bofalse;customsound:st;timerduration:nu0;exact:bofalse;threshold:nu50;unitn:stOnly for raid/group.;bufftype:nu7;stacks:nu0;aurastextfont:nu1;party:bofalse;customtex:bofalse;focus:bofalse;isenchant:bofalse;raid:bofalse;isdebufftype:bofalse;texture:nu11;buffname:stexplosive shot;anim2:nu9;opt1:nu97;r:nu0.25490196078431;randomcolor:bofalse;y:nu0;alpha:nu0.75;aurastext:st;customname:st;texmode:nu1;symetrie:nu0;ismounted:bofalse;targetfriend:bofalse;sound:nu12;isinraid:bofalse;finish:nu2

Aimed shot CD timer (can be modified to apply to Multi Shot)

gcd:bofalse;soundfile:st;owntex:bofalse;b:nu1;anim1:nu7;duration:nu5;g:nu1;thresholdinvert:bofalse;ignoremaj:botrue;opt2:nu0;speed:nu2;stance:nu10;icon:stInterface\Icons\INV_Spear_07;size:nu2;torsion:nu1;multiids:st;stacksOperator:st=;realaura:nu1;mine:bofalse;optunitn:bofalse;x:nu0;inverse:bofalse;begin:nu10;off:bofalse;isdebuff:bofalse;textaura:bofalse;timer:botrue;target:bofalse;combat:nu0;wowtex:bofalse;groupany:bofalse;customsound:st;timerduration:nu0;exact:bofalse;threshold:nu50;unitn:stOnly for raid/group.;bufftype:nu7;stacks:nu0;aurastextfont:nu1;party:bofalse;customtex:bofalse;focus:bofalse;isenchant:bofalse;raid:bofalse;isdebufftype:bofalse;texture:nu7;buffname:staimed shot;anim2:nu8;opt1:nu98;r:nu1;randomcolor:bofalse;y:nu0;alpha:nu1;aurastext:st;customname:st;texmode:nu1;symetrie:nu2;ismounted:bofalse;targetfriend:bofalse;sound:nu0;isinraid:bofalse;finish:nu1

Trap Ready Indicator (works for all traps)

gcd:bofalse;soundfile:st;owntex:bofalse;b:nu1;anim1:nu3;duration:nu30;g:nu0.93725490196078;thresholdinvert:bofalse;ignoremaj:botrue;opt2:nu0;speed:nu1;finish:nu1;icon:stInterface\Icons\Spell_Frost_ChainsOfIce;size:nu0.47999998927116;torsion:nu1;multiids:st;stacksOperator:st=;realaura:nu1;sound:nu0;optunitn:bofalse;off:bofalse;symetrie:nu0;begin:nu0;x:nu-3;texmode:nu1;textaura:bofalse;timer:bofalse;target:bofalse;timerduration:nu0;wowtex:botrue;groupany:bofalse;customsound:st;combat:nu0;y:nu-229;randomcolor:bofalse;unitn:stOnly for raid/group.;bufftype:nu7;r:nu0.52156862745098;aurastextfont:nu1;stacks:nu0;opt1:nu79;focus:bofalse;customtex:bofalse;raid:bofalse;isdebufftype:bofalse;texture:nu47;anim2:nu4;buffname:sttrap;isenchant:bofalse;party:bofalse;threshold:nu20;exact:bofalse;alpha:nu0.5;aurastext:st;customname:st;isdebuff:bofalse;inverse:bofalse;ismounted:bofalse;targetfriend:bofalse;mine:bofalse;isinraid:bofalse;stance:nu10

Thayer · 02/04/09, 4:03 AM

Originally Posted by Korvek

Anyone notice a possible stealth nerf to explosive shot?

Went over our guild survival parses and last week, we were avging about 2100 dmg ticks and 5900 avg crits and this week we were down to about 1900 and 5300ish respectively.
Checked another guild's parse and saw the same pattern of a hunter doing 2134 hits and 5928 crits previous week but 1899, and 5364 dmg after feb 3.

A post on the wow hunter forums also had people posting concerns of a drop in dps from previous weeks. Wondering if people had any numbers to compare.

Here's previous weeks patchwerk for us (I D/Ced at 40% of fight but you can still see me and zulkist's explosive shot dmg #s)
Wow Web Stats

And here's this weeks patchwerk.
Wow Web Stats

10% nerf to EXP shot?

I just calculated my Explosive Shot according to the description on WOWHead and based on my RAP, it is unchanged.

I took a deeper look at the log, and it seems that if Unleashed rage is constantly refreshed, it only counts it as one buff. This would be counter to the previous report, and I am not sure why Unleashed Rage shows up 118 times in the first report. I parsed some other logs and found the same occurrence of it being recorded as 1 incidence. So Unleashed Rage is not the culprit. I checked other physical DPS classes, and there was no significant change in their returns either.

You will notice your Auto Shot was also significantly higher last week, and Steady shot was slightly higher.

Also remember that Short fights like Patchwerk are nice for generating high DPS, but the shot pool is so small RNG can have a major swing effect on your DPS.

ekhowl · 02/04/09, 4:52 AM

Originally Posted by Phantasmique

I apologize for asking this but can anyone tell again that range mod wich shows when a hunter is at XX yards ?

I searched like three times on the last ten pages and i just cannot find it

Someone already posted a script for this, but also, another choice could be RangeDisplay addon, which I'm using personally.

Mortalshot · 02/04/09, 5:11 AM

Originally Posted by Thayer

I just calculated my Explosive Shot according to the description on WOWHead and based on my RAP, it is unchanged.

As for your WWS reports, last week you (and zulkist) had 128 incidences of Unleashed Rage on Patchwerk, and this week you only had 1 incidence. 10 percent more AP certainly can be that much of a difference. At 6000 RAP, that's an extra 96 damage per shot. I saw 1 Enhance Shaman in your group, so I don't know why you only got it once, since it is a 100 percent proc chance on crit, and it is 45 yards in range. I would assume the enhance shaman was for some reason not specced into it, but you did get 1 incidence of it, so this would not be the case. Actually there are two enhance shaman, and they both also only recorded 1 Incidence of Unleashed rage. I did notice that the case is the inverse for Rampage, as in the previous week, you only had 4 incidences of it, while this week, you had 30.

I took a deeper look at the log, and it seems that if Unleashed rage is constantly refreshed, it only counts it as one buff. This would be counter to the previous report, and I am not sure why Unleashed Rage shows up 118 times in the first report. I parsed some other logs and found the same occurrence of it being recorded as 1 incidence.

You will notice your Auto Shot was also significantly higher last week, and Steady shot was slightly higher.

Also remember that Short fights like Patchwerk are nice for generating high DPS, but the shot pool is so small RNG can have a major swing effect on your DPS.

Have you tried testing it out on a target dummy? For me the damage of ES is close to 10% lower then what tooltip is showing (1114-1187 instead of 1208-1296). And I believe the only one unleashed rage is one of the optimizations blizzard implemented this week to help reduce latency in 25 mans so it only gets applied when it falls of, not spammed 128 times.

Thayer · 02/04/09, 5:15 AM

Originally Posted by Mortalshot

Have you tried testing it out on a target dummy? For me the damage of ES is close to 10% lower then what tooltip is showing (1114-1187 instead of 1208-1296). And I believe the only one unleashed rage is one of the optimizations blizzard implemented this week to help reduce latency in 25 mans so it only gets applied when it falls of, not spammed 128 times.

Yea, I checked logs and it now streams it into one buff, as long as it is refreshed. I changed my previous post to reflect this.

still shows an overall reduction ES shot damage, across several boss fights, but there are som many factors at play that discerning something direct is difficult. I already checked resists, and they seem the same across the board, with even an average 297 damage resisted last week, and a lower 254 damage resisted this week.

Maybe it could be that Unleashed rage is not effecting Explosive Shot all of the sudden, since it is technically a (fire) shot. I checked the fire damage the mages were doing and it seems unchanged for the most part. Puzzling, but It is still maintainable that it is just RNG. There are too few sample sets at the moment to find anything conclusive. Since to tooltip reflects that the formula for calculating RAP to Explosive shot has not changed, this may just be conjecture. Of course if the formula changed, but the tooltip did not, then we have a stealth nerf.

Selmarix · 02/04/09, 6:04 AM

Server side changes do not change the tooltip (which is client side). So if Blizzard stealth nerfed it, then it will only show in actual tests, but not in the damage value on the tooltip.

Thayer · 02/04/09, 6:05 AM

Originally Posted by Selmarix

Server side changes do not change the tooltip (which is client side). So if Blizzard stealth nerfed it, then it will only show in actual tests, but not in the damage value on the tooltip.

I went ahead and tested (I took mirror of truth off to prevent fluctuations in AP) 198 shots on the target dummy, and looking at my returns, I got an average 1194 damage. I got this average by taking my hit average, calculating my crit base damage ((crit average x 100)/230), and then by taking the total amount of damage resisted and dividing it by the number of shots, and then adding that into the average from the previous two numbers. This was pretty easy since I got a nice 51 / 49 crit, hit split.

My tooltip median says that I should have had a 1211 base average, so 1194 (~1.4 percent less) is not too far off for such a small sample set. Make sure you calculate in the resisted damage when considering if you are getting lower then normal damage.

I got a feeling that the suggestions of nerfing ES, coupled with some RNG, are playing tricks on some people's heads.

Selmarix · 02/04/09, 6:19 AM

That is not unlikely. Onyxia knows a tale to tell about that. A separate useful test from the same data set would be to check the minimum hit you got and comparing it with the minimum hit you should be able to get with the tooltip value.

Thayer · 02/04/09, 6:32 AM

Originally Posted by Selmarix

That is not unlikely. Onyxia knows a tale to tell about that. A separate useful test from the same data set would be to check the minimum hit you got and comparing it with the minimum hit you should be able to get with the tooltip value.

minimal hit was 894. If I consider that I had a normal shot both resisted partially, and blocked partially (proven to happen with ES), and I look back over my log and the average normal crit resit is 114 - 118 damage, and block mitigation is 76, the I can add back in ~ 196 damage, to get a threshold of 1190. The tool tip says my min, unmodified shot damage should be 1167, so this is within range. I was watching my combat log before to see resist amounts, but since I AFKed out while tying, I can't go back and check to see what the 894 damage shot was specifically.

I did see some minor flaws with my previous calculation, such as forgetting to account for the meta gem bonus on crit, but this is not significant enough to create a severe enough swing that the assumption will not hold true.

Six in the morning and it's time for bed. If this hadn't come up, I'd be down like 3 hours ago. Damn my curiosity and intellectual vigor!

Fierra · 02/04/09, 8:26 AM

Delete please; Thayer got here before I did!