The Survival Hunter in WotLK - Page 84

Heli · 02/06/09, 12:08 AM

Hi, I'm particularly interested in learning more about the 6/14/51 build, specifically with regard to fully utilizing the ranged attack speed of 5/5 IAotH. Since the full 5/5 is needed to be able to pick up the single point in Focused Fire, what is the optimum attack speed to not waste the haste bonus of 5/5 (15%)?

Thanks!

Drans · 02/06/09, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Heli

Hi, I'm particularly interested in learning more about the 6/14/51 build, specifically with regard to fully utilizing the ranged attack speed of 5/5 IAotH. Since the full 5/5 is needed to be able to pick up the single point in Focused Fire, what is the optimum attack speed to not waste the haste bonus of 5/5 (15%)?

Thanks!

It's not really "wasted" as it will always increase autoshot dps.

Difool · 02/06/09, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by Eurytos

Not a stupid question. This has been VERY common. I raided for nearly a week with rank 1 as did several other hunters in my guild.

You can see rank in the WWS parse, sort of. If you bring up the tooltip for an ability and the rank is NOT listed then the highest rank is being used. It does report the use of lower ranks. If he hadn't trained Explosive shot then the WWS report would have shown "Explosive Shot (Rank 1)".

Ebolt · 02/06/09, 4:31 AM

Originally Posted by RobotChicken

Hey guys, I've got a bit of a problem. In my current gear, I feel I should be pushing at the very least 5K DPS on bosses, however since I've switched to Surv (when 3.0.8 hit) I just can't break 5K. There must be something I'm doing wrong. Here's a WWS parse from the other day: Wow Web Stats

On Patchwerk I can hit up to 4.5k with all my cooldowns blown. It still seems a bit low to me. I'm hit capped (with draenei racial) and I'm currently using a cat. The spreadsheet is showing that I should be doing at least 6K DPS, but it seems I should be doing at least 5k realistically. I'm thinking my pet isn't doing nearly the damage it should be. According to the spreadsheet it should be doing a whopping 1K DPS even as surv.

Looking at your Patchwerk kill, it took you guys 3'41" to kill him. The longer a fight takes, the lower the cooldown/bloodlust uptime, the lower your DPS. If you look at most 5k+ WWS reports, the kill times are all 2'30"-3'00".

So to answer your question, the problem it your raids DPS, not your personal DPS.

• RobotChicken · 02/06/09, 9:13 AM

Thanks all for your replies, I think I'm leaning towards kill time as well. I've noticed a definite increase in my DPS the less time we take to down a boss.

Originally Posted by Ryas

Also, are you using your steady shot enough? It's not as powerful, sure, but it's still used for filler. Again, faster kill and I had more steady shot damage. Having claw work correctly would also help your DPS a good amount.

I've actually been trying to use steady shot LESS because I tend to cast it well into a period when ES is off cooldown

EDIT: And yes, I do have the highest rank of ES trained.

parttimehanyou · 02/06/09, 11:30 AM

I've experienced similar discrepancies also between spreadsheet dps and Patchwerk kills as well. The spreadsheet tells me I should be doing 5500+ dps with raid buffs, but in reality it is closer to 4400-4600 optimally for me in that fight. Our kill time is around 3:10 or so, so it would seem to fit in with the above posts.

I've tried to read as much as I could in here to up my DPS as much as possible, but at times I start thinking I'm doing something wrong, or missing something blatantly obvious because there is such a huge discrepancy between spreadsheet and actual dps. It is likely a combination of small factors, not the least of which is raid buffs which may or may not be present in my usual group.

The spreadsheet says I should be doing ~2900 dps with only self buffs, and for the most part it is pretty close. I average around ~2500 on a targeting dummy with only that.

Bovii · 02/06/09, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Ryas

This is a stupid question, but I know hunters have done it before. Do you have the highest rank of Explosive Shot trained? That alone could be your problem. I know I only did around 50k more damage with my explosive shot overall, and my kill was a little less then a minute faster.

Also, are you using your steady shot enough? It's not as powerful, sure, but it's still used for filler. Again, faster kill and I had more steady shot damage. Having claw work correctly would also help your DPS a good amount.

Actually, while not a stupid question, it isn't something that you have to worry about post patch (might have come in via last maintenance) as you auto-learn all of the ranks on Explosive Shot. It was a bug that you didn't as this is the way it worked for all other abilities (you learn max rank by level of Aimed Shot and all other classes do so as well). I altered my SV spec last night due to some gear changes and, unlike two weeks ago, there was no need to train additional ranks nor was there even the option on the trainer.

noth · 02/06/09, 12:58 PM

You still have to train it the first time, Bovii, it's just that you don't have to *re* train your abilities once you spec out and back into them. It's a change that landed sometime in the middle of last xpac.

Ryas · 02/06/09, 1:33 PM

Originally Posted by noth

You still have to train it the first time, Bovii, it's just that you don't have to *re* train your abilities once you spec out and back into them. It's a change that landed sometime in the middle of last xpac.

Exactly. For a lot of people, this was the first time they spec'd into Explosive Shot, and afterward they didn't train the later ranks. Once you train them, even if you spec in and out of it, you'll always get the highest rank available.

nakka · 02/06/09, 2:56 PM

As stated in my last WWS, frost trap procs LnL off raid bosses AND is on a seperate CD as serpent sting procs. I just noticed that proccing LnL from frost traps has NO CD. So you can spec resourcefulness, get a LnL every 24 secs, and a chance to proc it between those 24s with serpent sting.

Trickytrout · 02/06/09, 3:04 PM

Originally Posted by nakka

Hoping im the first to discover this cause i'll feel special.
As stated in my last WWS, frost trap procs LnL off raid bosses AND is on a seperate CD as serpent sting procs. I just noticed that proccing LnL from frost traps has NO CD. So you can spec resourcefulness, get a LnL every 24 secs, and a chance to proc it between those 24s with serpent sting. GG

This was discovered over 10 pages ago.

Hellifiknow · 02/06/09, 6:43 PM

After doing some thought on frost traps proccing LnL I figured I would try and fiddle with some specs myself to see what I could come up with. I have used a number of different survival based builds recently to try and determine the best one. I've tried 6/14/51, 1/18/52 and so on. After looking at it today I figure I can up my personal best DPS by a fair amount with the upcoming changes to Sniper Training by using this build:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Not sure if my choice of talents is 100% sound yet but I believe it may work well to trap dance with the new Sniper training, should trap dancing not be nerfed or changed.

Thayer · 02/07/09, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by Hellifiknow

After doing some thought on frost traps proccing LnL I figured I would try and fiddle with some specs myself to see what I could come up with. I have used a number of different survival based builds recently to try and determine the best one. I've tried 6/14/51, 1/18/52 and so on. After looking at it today I figure I can up my personal best DPS by a fair amount with the upcoming changes to Sniper Training by using this build:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Not sure if my choice of talents is 100% sound yet but I believe it may work well to trap dance with the new Sniper training, should trap dancing not be nerfed or changed.

You have enough Haste from your gear that you only need to take 1 point in iAotH (glyphed of course) to get the most potential out of that talent. You can spend the extra 2 points in either Imp Stings, or Hunting party.

Blocknock · 02/07/09, 3:12 AM

Originally Posted by Hellifiknow

After doing some thought on frost traps proccing LnL I figured I would try and fiddle with some specs myself to see what I could come up with. I have used a number of different survival based builds recently to try and determine the best one. I've tried 6/14/51, 1/18/52 and so on. After looking at it today I figure I can up my personal best DPS by a fair amount with the upcoming changes to Sniper Training by using this build:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Not sure if my choice of talents is 100% sound yet but I believe it may work well to trap dance with the new Sniper training, should trap dancing not be nerfed or changed.

I like your spec but there is a few things that I might change. As Thayer said, you do have enough haste to only need 1 point in iAotH, Personally I would put one of those points in Focused aim, take out that 16 hit rating gem as you'll still be at the hit cap, put in a little more agi and finish off your expose weakness. With the amount of agility you have, plus getting a few more by swapping out that gem, the bonus your going to get off that critt is going to be insane. Even at 1425 your getting 25% of that stacking on top, which would put you at 1781 agility. Which will also give you a greater dps overall. Going from a 66% chance to a 100% chance.

alarge · 02/07/09, 5:36 AM

Originally Posted by Blocknock

I like your spec but there is a few things that I might change. As Thayer said, you do have enough haste to only need 1 point in iAotH, Personally I would put one of those points in Focused aim, take out that 16 hit rating gem as you'll still be at the hit cap, put in a little more agi and finish off your expose weakness. With the amount of agility you have, plus getting a few more by swapping out that gem, the bonus your going to get off that critt is going to be insane. Even at 1425 your getting 25% of that stacking on top, which would put you at 1781 agility. Which will also give you a greater dps overall. Going from a 66% chance to a 100% chance.

Wait, what? Did you actually model this in the spreadsheet before giving this advice? Note that hit from Focused Aim does not transfer to the pet, so at the cost of 16 hit, you've lost your pet a full 1% hit. The impact of this is less for SV than for BM, but the two are not equivalent.

Second, you almost never need 3 points in Expose Weakness. If you're running around 40% crit when raid buffed and are getting 8 shots in 7 seconds, then you have roughly 1 - (.733)^8 ~= 92% chance of having the proc up.

And where are you getting a 25% increase to agility? Expose Weakness increases AP, not agility (it increases it by 25% of your agility).