The Survival Hunter in WotLK - Page 91

JuhnorX · 04/15/09, 5:03 PM

A strange issue when a hunter in my party standing 2ft away from me didn't get my Replenishment. He didn't have full mana, hadn't received any other replenishment, and after several different procs, and having left and rejoined the group, and relogging a few times to test he still didn't receive it. Although 2 other mana users in the group did. When it was just him shooting we all received it.

I hadn't noticed this previously in any scenario, so sincere apologies if it's known, i'm assuming it may be because I have 1 more point in Hunting Party (2/3, he has 1/3). Hopefully it's recognising that a more (possibly) consistent talent point/buff is available.

Mikari · 04/15/09, 5:11 PM

Originally Posted by Kharthus

Possible bugs reported on the forums. Does anyone know if they're real or not?

ES not proccing Go for the Throat
ES not proccing Thrill of the Hunt
Black Arrow not affecting ES (I think we've already proved this)
Sniper Training not affecting ES

I can add ES not proccing Fury of the Five Flights.

In regards to the T.N.T bug earlier, according to the wowhead data it's only applying 2 lots of the % modifier, I wonder if Black Arrow is affected by any rank of T.N.T?

t.n.t - Wowhead Search

Phanuel · 04/15/09, 5:20 PM

Problem I'm experiencing is Black Arrow being untalented upon zoning/reloading the game. So Eventhorizon no longer sees it but I still can use it. My talent trees end up 15/55 with 0 available for spending. Changing specs and then back again unlearns black arrow and explosive shot every time, meaning I need to re-talent and then put them back on my bars again before I can use them or Eventhorizon sees them.

Krazyk · 04/15/09, 5:37 PM

Originally Posted by Breakerone

I havent actually checked out every single build posted, but I dont think this was mentioned yet. While most people spent a lot of talking about switching 1 or 2 points out of Hunting Party, talking about AS or not and maybe one point in AotH, which pushes around some 10-20dps, has anyone checked the rather drastic step of not only getting out of Hunting Party but skipping Thrill of the Hunt as well?

When I use the spreadsheet I have the aspect behavior set to always on, simply because I just about never managed to go oom in a 25men raid, so if your setting is different you might not see the big difference. But dropping all points out of TotH and HP and putting all 5 (had only 2 in HP) into AotH brings the BiS setup from 7038 dps to 7251 dps. Of course its totally unclear how far you would come with that big hit to your mana, but considering that I was getting out of most fights in Naxx with almost full mana, I'd say it might be worth a try. If you go that way, its even a liiiittle bit more tempting again to drop Aimed Shot again for Focused Fire, which brings the dps to 7286 for me.
All of this with KS, ES and then Hawk as glyphs.

This is exactly what I was torn with. I dual-specced 6/14/51 and 0/15/56 for last nights Ulduar 25.

For me the Aimed spec proved to be higher dps during an actual encounter. I think this is mainly because of Aimed being an convenient instant shot when we are moving around and finding myself keeping my pet at my side to keep it from dying while learning these fights. So, I have decided to stick with 0/15/56 for now during the early stages of Ulduar, and will switch back to Focused Fire later on.

Breakerone · 04/15/09, 5:45 PM

Originally Posted by Krazyk

This is exactly what I was torn with. I dual-specked 6/14/51 and 0/15/56 for last nights Ulduar 25.

For me the Aimed spec proved to be higher dps during an actual encounter. I think this is mainly because of Aimed being an convenient instant shot when we are moving around and finding myself keeping my pet at my side to keep it from dying while learning these fights. So, I have decided to stick with 0/15/56 for now during the early stages of Ulduar, and will switch back to Focused Fire later on.

My main point was not to argue about having AS or not. You can choose to have it in both specs, its just a 30dps increase by taking FF over it, and I choose to have AS for all of the aforementioned reasons by many posters, you included. It was mainly about not getting TotH and HP in favour of 5/5 AotH plus Hawk glyph instead of Serpent glyph, which means a difference of about 210dps if you dont go oom.

dvorjak · 04/15/09, 5:52 PM

What I see people saying about hunting party is it's only use is the mana regeneration and perhaps the points should be put in IAotH if we don't go oom. But what about the 2-3% agility increase, how much does that benefit our dps?

Bovii · 04/15/09, 5:53 PM

I've actually toyed with the idea of dropping TotH/HP. What this boils down to, really, is: Does your guild raid have enough mana regen w/o you bringing your own (my guild had 3 people bringing full on Replen) and how are you going to adjust your glyphs accordingly?

alienangel · 04/15/09, 5:55 PM

The ES not proccing FotFF is especially aggravating because I specifically checked that it still did on the PTR when they put in the "ES will not triple-proc JoW" change. That wasn't the most recent build, but about half-way through the PTR cycle each ES definitely gave me 3 stacks of FotFF and 3 Aspect of the Viper procs.

Breakerone · 04/15/09, 5:57 PM

Originally Posted by Kharthus

You'll all be glad to know the version of KHT I released for 3.1 has full control over all the timers. You can turn off all the ones you don't want to see.

The 21 second timer on a glyphed serpent sting is still not working or do I need to find the correct setting?

Kharthus · 04/15/09, 7:24 PM

Originally Posted by Breakerone

The 21 second timer on a glyphed serpent sting is still not working or do I need to find the correct setting?

Have you relogged since applying the glyph? Or opened your spellbook?

I tested it myself last night and the extra time always applied.

Nevermind, I think I know what's wrong. I'll try to get an update out tonight.

elfyperson · 04/15/09, 8:09 PM

are the new glyphs going to be a while? or are they trained...

billalex · 04/15/09, 8:56 PM

Originally Posted by Phanuel

Problem I'm experiencing is Black Arrow being untalented upon zoning/reloading the game. So Eventhorizon no longer sees it but I still can use it. My talent trees end up 15/55 with 0 available for spending. Changing specs and then back again unlearns black arrow and explosive shot every time, meaning I need to re-talent and then put them back on my bars again before I can use them or Eventhorizon sees them.

I have the exact same problem. Dual specced BM/Surv, with Surv as my secondary tree. The 2 point reset happens after spec change, and after logging/game restart.

IceyDevil · 04/15/09, 9:49 PM

Originally Posted by elfyperson

are the new glyphs going to be a while? or are they trained...

I have heard that they have to be found off of mobs (research will learn the scribe nothing as well). Clarification needed on this.

Hunterssuck · 04/16/09, 12:41 AM

So could anyone possibly answer a few questions for me since the new patch came out?

1. What is the survival raid spec at the moment? (best dps)
2. What glyphs (major + minor) do I need to use? This includes the new 3.1 glyphs
3. An idea of a possible shot rotation since black arrow is thrown in the mix now?

Any help would be appreciated. I've been doing research but time is limited and maybe someone has a good answer already?

Adex · 04/16/09, 1:12 AM

Originally Posted by Hunterssuck

So could anyone possibly answer a few questions for me since the new patch came out?

1. What is the survival raid spec at the moment? (best dps)
2. What glyphs (major + minor) do I need to use? This includes the new 3.1 glyphs
3. An idea of a possible shot rotation since black arrow is thrown in the mix now?

Any help would be appreciated. I've been doing research but time is limited and maybe someone has a good answer already?

I think it's still too early and most of people are doing research, like you and me

Spec, I think about: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
but is 3% agi worth spending 3 points in it, instead of spending them in... maybe Improved Aspect of the Hawk? Or maybe Aimed Shot+Improved Stings (losing 1 point in Expose Weakness to make IS 3/3). It's still a discuss matter, I'd like to listen to others. About glyphs: in my 1-st build it would be Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting and Steady Shot. Kill Shot is a good choice (better than Serpent Sting?

). If I'd go IAotH, I'd also take glyph of it (instead of SS, too).

Those are just my thoughts and I believe that more experienced hunters (especially those who did Ulduar yesterday

) will take the floor and share their experience with us.

Kargos · 04/16/09, 1:19 AM

Clarification on the new glyphs:

Book of Glyph Mastery

Added around 50 new glyph recipes. These new recipes can be obtained from Books of Glyph Mastery found as world drops on Northrend monsters. Reading a Book of Glyph Mastery randomly discovers one of the newly-added recipes.

Source

Edit: Expect the prices to be high.

bagmol · 04/16/09, 4:27 AM

Consider the following two scenarios

Scenario 1: your SS are hastecapped (cast = 1.5s)
Scenario 2: your SS are not hastecapped (cast > 1.5s)

Consider all skills are on cooldown except ES and SS

In case 1 the basic rotation is ES, SS, SS, SS repeat

But in case 2 do you still do ES, 3xSS and thus delaying your next ES or do you simply do only 2xSS and then do nothing until the second ES comes of cooldown before shooting it (in which case the ES is not delayed)?

Shabbahunter · 04/16/09, 6:44 AM

I was actually thinking of dropping serpent sting from my rotation completly.
In this way freeing points from WS and NS.
Any ideas on that?

Æthien · 04/16/09, 7:01 AM

Yeah, bad idea.
Serpent sting does more damage than steady shot, so for that reason alone it's not worth dropping.
3% additional damage to any target it's on only makes it a lot better.

raikes · 04/16/09, 7:39 AM

Alright, I ran the 25 man Ulduar last night without Serpent Sting on my bar and for the most part stayed at the top of the damage meter. The only times I was not at the top for each fight was when I was dying or trying to drop agro cause FD failed.

Now keep in mind that I am not hit capped and I don't use aimed shot.
For the most part my shot rotation is;
BA, ES, MS, SS, KS (always kept BA up)

I also used a flask (endless rage) and eat crit food and fed the pet (wolf) with kibblers bites.

At times of watching the DPS meter i would be pushing 4200-4600dps with out being in range of shammies totems due to strats on razorscale.

Here is a link to my spec - The World of Warcraft Armory

I also removed the serpent sting glyph and put in a glyph for MS until I can get my hands on the new hunter glyphs.

Zyrinx · 04/16/09, 8:56 AM

Originally Posted by raikes

Alright, I ran the 25 man Ulduar last night without Serpent Sting on my bar and for the most part stayed at the top of the damage meter. The only times I was not at the top for each fight was when I was dying or trying to drop agro cause FD failed.

Now keep in mind that I am not hit capped and I don't use aimed shot.
For the most part my shot rotation is;
BA, ES, MS, SS, KS (always kept BA up)

I also used a flask (endless rage) and eat crit food and fed the pet (wolf) with kibblers bites.

At times of watching the DPS meter i would be pushing 4200-4600dps with out being in range of shammies totems due to strats on razorscale.

Here is a link to my spec - The World of Warcraft Armory

I also removed the serpent sting glyph and put in a glyph for MS until I can get my hands on the new hunter glyphs.

Armory is showing your spec as 5 / 15/ 46 (5 points missing). Presumably they are EW 3/3, BA and ES.

Strange that losing, basically, 3% total damage can be made up for elsewhere.

Norest · 04/16/09, 9:02 AM

Originally Posted by raikes

Alright, I ran the 25 man Ulduar last night without Serpent Sting on my bar and for the most part stayed at the top of the damage meter. The only times I was not at the top for each fight was when I was dying or trying to drop agro cause FD failed.

Now keep in mind that I am not hit capped and I don't use aimed shot.
For the most part my shot rotation is;
BA, ES, MS, SS, KS (always kept BA up)

I also used a flask (endless rage) and eat crit food and fed the pet (wolf) with kibblers bites.

At times of watching the DPS meter i would be pushing 4200-4600dps with out being in range of shammies totems due to strats on razorscale.

Here is a link to my spec - The World of Warcraft Armory

I also removed the serpent sting glyph and put in a glyph for MS until I can get my hands on the new hunter glyphs.

You have NO expose weakness..... which is practically mandatory for any raiding spec.

1 point in GftT is enough, regardless of any Spec.

So take out 5 points in IAotH, 1 point in GftT; and reallocate them to 2/3 EW, 1/1 Wyvern Sting and 3/3 Noxious Stings, and I guarantee that you'll see a significant improvement in DPS.

As SV in Ulduar, I'm breaking 5k in most fights easily. So far we've downed Flame Leviathan, Razorscale, XT Deconstructor, Iron Council, Kologarn, Auriaya and Hodir - And from my experience at least, SV is definitely competitive enough to be in contention for top DPS.

Edit : Also, as SV, you want to eat +agi food, and Kill Shot should be your first priority in shot rotations when <20%.

Adex · 04/16/09, 9:25 AM

Norest, I noticed that most of "5k 3.1" hunters are NOT taking Black Arrow. Is that a good thing?

Sirael · 04/16/09, 9:27 AM

That is only a bug. It would be stupid to not take Black Arrow because it is a requirement for Explosive Shot.

Luckyshot · 04/16/09, 9:29 AM

Originally Posted by Adex

Norest, I noticed that most of "5k 3.1" hunters are NOT taking Black Arrow. Is that a good thing?

They probably have black arrow, because without it , you cannot get explosive shot. Make sure you aren't dealing with armory or talent bugs. I know my armory is not accurate at the moment.