The Survival Hunter in WotLK - Page 92

Zeuxis · 04/16/09, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Breakerone

My main point was not to argue about having AS or not. You can choose to have it in both specs, its just a 30dps increase by taking FF over it, and I choose to have AS for all of the aforementioned reasons by many posters, you included. It was mainly about not getting TotH and HP in favour of 5/5 AotH plus Hawk glyph instead of Serpent glyph, which means a difference of about 210dps if you dont go oom.

Breaker- I had similar thoughts a few pages back. My experience with it thus far is that it is indeed more "standing still" dps to drop thrill and hp in favor of BM talents, but I don't have enough testing done yet to quantify it. The real question that's come up in my mind is whether or not judicious use of AoV/viper sting can support a non-TotH setup without nullifying the dps benefit.

Shabbahunter · 04/16/09, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Norest

You have NO expose weakness..... which is practically mandatory for any raiding spec.

1 point in GftT is enough, regardless of any Spec.

So take out 5 points in IAotH, 1 point in GftT; and reallocate them to 2/3 EW, 1/1 Wyvern Sting and 3/3 Noxious Stings, and I guarantee that you'll see a significant improvement in DPS.

As SV in Ulduar, I'm breaking 5k in most fights easily. So far we've downed Flame Leviathan, Razorscale, XT Deconstructor, Iron Council, Kologarn, Auriaya and Hodir - And from my experience at least, SV is definitely competitive enough to be in contention for top DPS.

Edit : Also, as SV, you want to eat +agi food, and Kill Shot should be your first priority in shot rotations when <20%.

He has EW but armory has a bug.
But indeed 1 point in GftT is enough.
Well, with glyph of BA and resourcefulness you get BA to 18sec CD.
Speccing aimed and only one point in GffT you could also glyph aimed getting that to 8sec CD,
last glyph would be hawk with only 2 points in IAH or maybe the glyph of KS, not shure yet.

Going without SpS also makes the rotation a bit easier and is one less timer to watch. :p

Edit: I missed the glyph, BA does not exist, it was KS i mistook it for.

Zigazaha · 04/16/09, 12:56 PM

People seem to be complaining about there dps but i've only seen an increase.
My guilds been pushing ulduar so i don't have any patchwerk parses, but on kologarn last night i managed to pull 5.1k dps over 6 minutes and end in 2nd place.

The sky isn't falling, you just need to get used to using the new rotation, popping good furious howls ect.

Also, my top explosive shot crit without a damage multiplier went from about 5.1k last week, to 7.2k this week.

valiloramov · 04/16/09, 3:58 PM

I've checked this thread and the OP hasn't updated the front page..what's the optimal priory of SV shots?

Would it be EX > BA > AiS/MS > SrS ?

dvorjak · 04/16/09, 4:35 PM

Does anyone how much of a benefit the 3% agility is from Hunting Party and does it affect Darkmoon Card: Greatness? If we never go oom, should we drop Hunting Party?

Terp · 04/16/09, 4:40 PM

Originally Posted by Shabbahunter

he has EW but armory has bug
and indeed 1 point in GftT is enough
well, with glyph of BA and resourcefulness you get BA to 18sec CD
speccing aimed and only one point in GffT you could also glyph aimed getting that to 8sec CD
last glyph would be hawk with only 2 points in IAH or maybe the glyph of KS, not shure yet

going without SpS also makes the rotation a bit easier and is one less timer to watch :p

What's this about a BA glyph?

KraxisSingular · 04/16/09, 5:50 PM

Originally Posted by Terp

What's this about a BA glyph?

I must have missed it too. From the numbers presented it is supposedly 6 seconds off the cooldown, which is quite a lot considering the original cooldown. Also leaving a 3 second gap seems... unelegant and perhaps even a little clunky.

So, where is this glyph?

Gaj · 04/16/09, 6:14 PM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

I must have missed it too. From the numbers presented it is supposedly 6 seconds off the cooldown, which is quite a lot considering the original cooldown. Also leaving a 3 second gap seems... unelegant and perhaps even a little clunky.

So, where is this glyph?

ES is apparently discovered from a Book of Glyph Mastery (world drop, produces random glyph discovery). We have a post on our Realm forum asking for it when it gets discovered. So far, I have not heard of any yet.

Edited: I apologize. I was thinking of Glyph of Explosive Shot when I typed this.

Neruse · 04/16/09, 6:34 PM

If a BA glyph with 6s off the cooldown does actually exist, rough math suggests that it will be the best SV glyph.

JoeF-3 · 04/16/09, 6:40 PM

If it exists, it was left completely out of the patch notes and the PTR. So my guess is that it does not exist. Tho I'd be happy to be wrong.

alienangel · 04/16/09, 6:52 PM

Until someone posts a link to the recipe, I'm assuming whoever mentioned it is just confused and thinking of Glyph of Killshot.

It's also against blizzard's stated ideals to let you glyph an ability as soon as they introduce it.

IceyDevil · 04/16/09, 7:46 PM

Originally Posted by dvorjak

Does anyone how much of a benefit the 3% agility is from Hunting Party and does it affect Darkmoon Card: Greatness? If we never go oom, should we drop Hunting Party?

Consider the benefit to your raid if you don't have many other people who bring replenishment to the table.

Hunteralex · 04/16/09, 7:54 PM

Originally Posted by valiloramov

I've checked this thread and the OP hasn't updated the front page..what's the optimal priory of SV shots?

Would it be EX > BA > AiS/MS > SrS ?

In my opinion, and what i have tested in Ulduar and Emalon, my shot priorities are to get off my Black arrow before most of anything, just for the 6% damage increase. Aswell as, if you are glyphed and specced. like I am, my second most prioritized shot is my serpent sting because that also will add a damage enhancer.

My Current rotation is BA > SrS > ES > MS Rinse and repeat. If someone on this thread has a better idea please post a reply to what i stated. Thank you

Kharthus · 04/16/09, 8:04 PM

Originally Posted by Adex

I think it's still too early and most of people are doing research, like you and me

Spec, I think about: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
but is 3% agi worth spending 3 points in it, instead of spending them in... maybe Improved Aspect of the Hawk? Or maybe Aimed Shot+Improved Stings (losing 1 point in Expose Weakness to make IS 3/3). It's still a discuss matter, I'd like to listen to others. About glyphs: in my 1-st build it would be Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting and Steady Shot. Kill Shot is a good choice (better than Serpent Sting?

). If I'd go IAotH, I'd also take glyph of it (instead of SS, too).

Those are just my thoughts and I believe that more experienced hunters (especially those who did Ulduar yesterday

) will take the floor and share their experience with us.

You don't need 3 pts in EW. Move one pt into GffT. That's the spec I'm currently running.

Originally Posted by Hunteralex

My Current rotation is BA > SrS > ES > MS Rinse and repeat. If someone on this thread has a better idea please post a reply to what i stated. Thank you

I'm currently using ES > BA > SrS > MS. This is based on spreadsheet and SimCraft testing. It also uses the theory of highest dmg/shot.

Be nice to see actual testing from people with the various rotations to validate/refine the models.

Hunteralex · 04/16/09, 8:16 PM

Originally Posted by Kharthus

You don't need 3 pts in EW. Move one pt into GffT. That's the spec I'm currently running.

I'm currently using ES > BA > SrS > MS. This is based on spreadsheet and SimCraft testing. It also uses the theory of highest dmg/shot.

Be nice to see actual testing from people with the various rotations to validate/refine the models.

I see, also, looking at your spec. I did not realize that blizzard added the reduced cool down on black arrow into resourcefulness. I will give that spec a roll, but I have question about that reduced cool down. Does it bring Black arrow back up in time for it to be in the rotation every time?

kpm1 · 04/16/09, 9:10 PM

Black arrow has a 24 second cool down even with resourcefulness, so there will be 9 seconds of BA down time. But once it is cooled down use it as soon as possible.

Pootch · 04/17/09, 4:28 AM

Yesterday we had several attemps on Yogg Saron and managed to get him into P3 several times.

You will love to have (3/3) Hawk Eye on Yogg Saron Encounter.

The best choice is, leave the points out at Hunting Party and reduce 1 Point at Resourcefulness to spend them on Hawk Eye.

Sniper Traing & Noxious Sting are also very inefficient because of lot moving and fast target switching.

The DPS times are very short.. around ~30sec, burst and instant dmg is most important.

It would be interesting to know how much dps i would loose, if my char gets out of range to the target. I am pretty sure that it would be the same like to have a "miss".

Osakaa · 04/17/09, 4:37 AM

I'm noticing that people are leaving Steady Shot out when talking about rotations. Is this because you think it's a given that you're using it when there's time or is it seriously left out completely?

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Last night I was doing around 400-500 dps less than pre-patch (around 2500-3000 in 10man gear), and my shot priority was pretty much this:

BA SrS ES MS SS

Also, I'm having trouble figuring out what to replace my Hawk glyph with now that I'm specced out of imp aoth, and there's no ES/KS glyph available yet on my server. Currently I have Hawk, SrS and Steady.

CALMSTORM · 04/17/09, 5:15 AM

M8's I believe Hawk Eye is seriously underestimated as dps potential... It is not a direct dps talent however almost all ulduar fights involve much running and in many of them distances are great... That 6 yards of extra range will in many cases be the difference in keep running or firing off couple xtra shots b4 you have to move again.

Sounds funny but I will make my dual spec survival again (2x Surv spec) ... One for a little xtra dps (I will remove all 3 talents from Trap Mastery, as for 3 talents its xtra 30% on BA gives me total 1% dps increase as total and put them all in Hawk Eye) So At least on xtra ranged fights I will have some long range advantage (xtra ranged / Runnin involved fights = Almost ALL of them)

Pls let me know of your comments

Rezdan · 04/17/09, 6:32 AM

Originally Posted by Osakaa

I'm noticing that people are leaving Steady Shot out when talking about rotations. Is this because you think it's a given that you're using it when there's time or is it seriously left out completely?

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Last night I was doing around 400-500 dps less than pre-patch (around 2500-3000 in 10man gear), and my shot priority was pretty much this:

BA SrS ES MS SS

Also, I'm having trouble figuring out what to replace my Hawk glyph with now that I'm specced out of imp aoth, and there's no ES/KS glyph available yet on my server. Currently I have Hawk, SrS and Steady.

First, do NOT prioritize SrS over ES.

Second, most people that don't have access to the ES or KS glyph put a single talent point into Imp AotH used in conjuction with the Hawk glyph.

Osakaa · 04/17/09, 6:36 AM

Originally Posted by Rezdan

First, do NOT prioritize SrS over ES.

Second, most people that don't have access to the ES or KS glyph put a single talent point into Imp AotH used in conjuction with the Hawk glyph.

Thanks for replying!

What about Steady Shot, though? Should I try to weave 2 of those in when everything else is on cooldown? I saw some people don't even glyph for SS.

Hagen · 04/17/09, 8:08 AM

Yes, you should use Steady Shot when your other shots are on CD.

Mulgarath · 04/17/09, 9:03 AM

Shawna · 04/17/09, 10:06 AM

Im a relatively new 80 hunter so I apologize for wanting to be aware of a few things before I start introducing her to heroics and raids.

I notice that As is missing out of a lot of rotations too, being replaced with Ms. So is it safe to say its not worth it to spec into As, rather put that point into Hawk if you are glyphed into it for the time being?

And what about Ks? Once that is ready to go, that becomes priority over anything else correct?

Im seeing a lot of Surv hunters going with the glyphs of Es, Ks and SrS so Im assuming those are priority?

booyeow · 04/17/09, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Mulgarath

Don't know if ALL Sv hunters know this but you can train Black Arrow till rank 6.

Don't forget this...I almost did.

.

DUDE! A very sincere "Thank You!" Might have gone a long time not knowing that.