The Survival Hunter in WotLK - Page 93

booyeow · 04/17/09, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Shawna

Im a relatively new 80 hunter so I apologize for wanting to be aware of a few things before I start introducing her to heroics and raids.

I notice that As is missing out of a lot of rotations too, being replaced with Ms. So is it safe to say its not worth it to spec into As, rather put that point into Hawk if you are glyphed into it for the time being?

And what about Ks? Once that is ready to go, that becomes priority over anything else correct?

Im seeing a lot of Surv hunters going with the glyphs of Es, Ks and SrS so Im assuming those are priority?

I've read a hundred threads on the in's and out's of As vs Ms, and I can tell u it comes down to personal preference and play style. You can show me all the spreadsheets and test dummies, it really comes down to do u like having that shot that has extra punch that you can shoot on the move. You can really work either one into how you play. I personally like having As so I can punch whatever in the mouth as I'm running my bootaa off to get away from it.

And after seeing a few 17K+ Ks crits last night in Ulduar, with BA and ST up, I will certainly be looking for the Ks glyph. I think the Es one is a given.

And Ks is top priority. As far as the other glyph, SrS, I think that will be another one of those play style issues.

Good luck!

Shawna · 04/17/09, 10:26 AM

Thank you very much for responding

Yeah I think maybe Ill hold onto As for the "on the move" aspect since Ulduar is requiring a lot of movement and even bosses like Heigan or of the sort.

Thanks again!

Demlar · 04/17/09, 11:06 AM

Does anyone know which pet is the best raid pet now for us? I've seen things saying raptor or wolf. Last night in my test dummy training, self buffed with food and elixir's only, I had higher dps with my cat over my wolf by about 50-100dps.

Also, Explosive shot glyph has been found on Dragonblight for any that might need it there.

Jickyjack · 04/17/09, 11:33 AM

Thanks

Lactose · 04/17/09, 11:39 AM

[Flask of Stoneblood] increases health, not stamina.

mako · 04/17/09, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Jickyjack

Ok this is my first post so I am a little nervous here. But doing some quick calculations in my head I noticed with 3points in hunter vs wild we gain 30% additional ranged ap per stamina. So would the same theory be if we use Flask of Endless Rage we get a bonus of 180 AP. However if we use stoneblood we get an addtional bonus of 1300 stamina. When the 30% bonus is applied from Hunter vs Wild would that not equal an AP bonus of 390 ranged? Making stoneblood more needed?

Stoneblood adds flat hp, not stamina. Additionally, 130 stamina = 1300 hp. So, in terms of dps, endless rage is still our ideal flask.

Bovii · 04/17/09, 11:59 AM

Not sure if anyone else has experienced this but last night, I was burning OOM left and right. While fights are a bit longer than normal, I've not ever felt the need to pot and haven't ever needed to drop into Viper.

tarus · 04/17/09, 12:21 PM

I found that in fights where mana is a problem and a boss or add has a mana pool to drain the ViperSting was incredible in returning mana. 300% of what you drain (4%) up to 8% of your total mana over 8s for a single GCD. So say a mob has 20,000mana. You will drain 800mana but get back 2400mana for a single GCD instead of having to switch into viper. The total DPS loss due to no SrS should be a little but not as much as Viper considering you loose hawk and do 50% less damage.

Bovii · 04/17/09, 12:46 PM

That's all fine and well but it doesn't address the issue that Thrill of the Hunt isn't being activated as it should or that we're burning through more mana than before when we've added Black Arrow whose mana cost is less than that of the Steady Shot it is replacing. There is a bug somewhere and I couldn't pin it down last night due to the chaos that is Ulduar.

Nervosa · 04/17/09, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by mako

Stoneblood adds flat hp, not stamina. Additionally, 130 stamina = 1300 hp. So, in terms of dps, endless rage is still our ideal flask.

Isn't Elixir of Mighty Agility and Elixir of Mighty Thoughts better than Endless Rage flask?

tarus · 04/17/09, 1:03 PM

The reason we go through more mana is a simple one. The dot ticks for ES no longer trigger TotH or JoW from Ret paly's. With ES every 4 GCD it is a large loss in mana regen.

Killingston · 04/17/09, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by Nervosa

Isn't Elixir of Mighty Agility and Elixir of Mighty Thoughts better than Endless Rage flask?

Of course they are better stats wise, but for wiping progression, you're better off with the flask. Your going to burn through enough pet/agi food as it is.

mako · 04/17/09, 1:33 PM

Originally Posted by Nervosa

Isn't Elixir of Mighty Agility and Elixir of Mighty Thoughts better than Endless Rage flask?

Mathematically, it's an increase to use two elixirs. That's why I specified "flask" instead of "elixir-slot consumable".

I've also noticed mana being more an issue since 3.1 but initially I wrote it off as the effect of JoW being changed. If Explosive shot isn't able to trigger jow and toth hopefully it's a bug that will be remedied soon.

tarus · 04/17/09, 2:24 PM

ES can trigger however only the initial application does this. I believe this is an intended change as it puts SV more in lines with BM and MM for mana regeneration. Blizzard has said that they want Mana to be an issue again and if a hunter does not worry about mana then they are better off then most casters.

I have no problem with the change because you can use AotV and VS as needed and timed right without loosing too much DPS if you plan ahead.

Mulgarath · 04/17/09, 3:16 PM

Talandras · 04/17/09, 3:38 PM

Hey, maybe i can post it here as well...

in the last time, i´ve experienced hard decreases in my DPS.

I am using a 0/15/55 SV-Spec with 3/3 snipertraining and 1/3 expose weakness.
I´m always trying to follow the shot rotation priority and i don´t use any macros in my rotation like killcommand or somethin.
I don´t think my low DPS is because of my gear cause it has experienced some nice increases last time.

Maybe you could have a look if you see my mistake, i do not.

The World of Warcraft Armory
Wow Web Stats (Webstats Naxx25)
Wow Web Stats (Webstats Ulduar, i left raid before we managed to kill xt)

Hope you can help me finding my mistake:S

/edit, regarding my armory talents, i have skilled black arrow, it´s just bugged and yes i have learned all skills at my class teacher

Bovii · 04/17/09, 4:10 PM

Originally Posted by tarus

ES can trigger however only the initial application does this. I believe this is an intended change as it puts SV more in lines with BM and MM for mana regeneration. Blizzard has said that they want Mana to be an issue again and if a hunter does not worry about mana then they are better off then most casters.

I have no problem with the change because you can use AotV and VS as needed and timed right without loosing too much DPS if you plan ahead.

You're making the assumption, though, that this is an intended change. Remember that at the outset of the expansion, TotH and JoW weren't proccing off of the additional tics of ES and this was changed. As it stands, we're still experiencing several SV bugs with things not being affected by debuffs. To my knowledge, the BA issues have still yet to be resolved.

Zeel · 04/17/09, 4:16 PM

Originally Posted by Talandras

Hey, maybe i can post it here as well...

in the last time, i´ve experienced hard decreases in my DPS.

Hope you can help me finding my mistake:S

well you have all the tools to study your "mistakes" right and there..
Let's take your Naxx25 Patchwerk report.. there's a fellow hunter that you can compare your results with.

Wow Web Stats

- Aryra fired 81 Explosive Shots where you fired only 77
- he/she made more damage with similiar shots, so I assume your gear is not as good
- his/her serpent sting had bigger uptime etc
- you did not use flasks, Aryra did
- Aryra's pet did way more damage. something wrong with your pet buffs or usage of it's skills maybe?

when you combine all these little things and "mistakes" plus the ones I did not mention it's no wonder that you
are behind in dps

Lookharder · 04/17/09, 4:42 PM

Your explosive average dmg is very low. There is currently a bug with dual spec where it will appear you have the talent and you can even use explosive and black arrow but the talents are actually defaulting to rank 1. I had the same problem last night. Simply swap specs 2x back to your desired spec and allocate the pts that dont seem to stick when you switch specs. I spent the majority of the night spamming rank 1 black arrow and exp shot before i realized it.

Sollod · 04/17/09, 5:29 PM

So, I've followed this thread for quite some time, and perused back through it to see if there was an answer to this question but couldn't find one. Are we for sure that using:

-[Glyph of Explosive Shot]
-[Glyph of Kill Shot]
-[Glyph of Steady Shot]

is a DPS increase over

-[Glyph of Explosive Shot]
-[Glyph of Kill Shot]
-[Glyph of the Hawk]

It seems like we're losing more than a little haste going into T8, since the items exchange it more often than not for arPen. I'm currently running 1/14/56, using ES/Hawk/SteadyShot, and only ask because once Kill shot pops, I have to make that decision. I understand that 10% is a lot, but has anyone run the numbers on working in more steadies per ES cooldown than the static 10% steady dmg when sting is up?

Kharthus · 04/17/09, 6:20 PM

Originally Posted by Hunteralex

I see, also, looking at your spec. I did not realize that blizzard added the reduced cool down on black arrow into resourcefulness. I will give that spec a roll, but I have question about that reduced cool down. Does it bring Black arrow back up in time for it to be in the rotation every time?

I guess I wasn't completely clear, but it's not a rotation, it's a priority system. The cooldowns and uptimes don't lineup so you'll never get a rotation going that's repeatable. You choose the highest priority shot that is available for your next shot.

MacGruff of Hakkar · 04/17/09, 7:58 PM

*edit - just reloaded the latest sheet, working better, closer to real numbers now. I seem to be doing the best for what my spec/gear, etc... seem to suggest I guess...

edited to conform to board guidelines.

Saladin · 04/17/09, 8:38 PM

Originally Posted by Æthien

I'd like to correct this to "don't expect to end the fight full on mana without Judgment of Wisdom."
Because that's all there really is to it.

You forgot the mana returns from Thrill of the Hunt combined with 8% crit from warrior/druid & paladin/shaman. They sound like commonplace buffs, but 10-mans tend to be really restrictive and kooky like that.

Gart · 04/18/09, 3:37 AM

I have one question. Is a Raptor still the best pet for a Survivalhunter or is a cat or wolf maybe better?

Cilithan · 04/18/09, 3:40 AM

I've just edited the top post. I appologise for the delay. I'm moving house atm, so I don't actually have an internetconnection atm. Because of this I've also not been on top of all changes as I usualy am. Can some of you true experts give the top post a quick scan for errors and PM if something needs changing?

Thanks.

Do mind that todays edit is a preliminary one, a more thorough re-write will follow when I'm all settled.