Ok, I have finally had it with shot rotation macros after seeing a hunter ask for one to use with his alt druid last week. They do not provide a rotation that is unable to be reproduced by hand like they did in 2.4, and at this point are solely used by poor hunters to remove skill from their play. If you need a shot macro to hold your hand then you are probably on the wrong forums.
Any shot macros posted after this post will earn their posters a week's vacation from the boards.
In closing, L2P scrubs.
Demonstrably untrue, at least before today's patch. Pet ability prioritization still failed to always use the best ability when a GftT proc occurs, resulting in suboptimal pet rotations if relying only on autocasting. Lowest cost wouldn't result in the right ability being chosen and you'd have, for instance, Bite prioritized over Monstrous Bite intermittently, or Smack over Thunderstomp. For BM especially, combining proper ability prioritization with a shot macro would result in very real DPS increases (I found it varied between 50dps and 150dps personally, but I imagine it varies hunter to hunter).
That isn't to say the material here is particularly relevant anymore, or particularly accurate, but to say there is no place for macros isn't quite right. Even in 3.0.8, there is a use case.
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Arison, regarding your post about macroing pet abilities in with shots, I'm assuming you have a Devilsaur and talking about abilities such as Monstrous Bite and Rabid. Both have cooldowns of 7 seconds and roughly 30 seconds, talented. Now GftT is more or less random, and I assume that your macro will be spammed. So how can you ensure that you're using the abilities properly? Because if you're spamming your macro, you could very well be using Monstrous Bite right before a GftT proc, isn't it just as random as putting those abilities on autocast?
Depending on the pet ability, you end up pushing out the use of the next ability by at least one pet GCD (1.25s). It is more pronounced for some abilities than others, but effectively by delaying the ability, you end up with it being used fewer times in a fight, which is a dps decrease. Depending on points in Longevity and the pet in question, it can result in different amounts of lost dps. Delay every Rake with a Cat by 1.25s and you have a fairly noticeable dps decrease. Likewise, pre-3.0.8, losing a Scorpid Poison stack (not likely, but possible if you recall your pet and send him back quickly and he chooses a claw instead of poison) could be quite costly.
<Temerity> - Now recruiting, 10.5 hrs PST schedule
Never seen such an outrageous post from a mod, on this forum, or on any other for that matter. Personnaly, I'm playing my hunter since Wow beta, so you can keep your "L2P scrubs" for yourself. You've got peoples posting on this thread with great informations about the wow macros mechanic, like the gcd reset tricks and such, peoples are actually learning the macro language with thoses post, and this things tend to change and evolve quickly if you don't keep yourself informed and updated. But, if we can only think, discuss, and gather informations on subjects that catter to "Myloooooooooooord" views and personal interest, well that's something "FANTASTIC", isn't it ? .....
There are plenty of valid tricks and tips that can be gathered here without artificially lowering your DPS or reducing your game interaction to pressing one button. If there are macro commands that eventually produce a rotation that cannot possibly be replicated by hand and is shown to be higher than manual weaving, then it is by all means welcome.
This isn't to stifle conversation on the topic, but to steer it away from promoting poor play. If you really think you have a valid point pertaining to macros then you'll present it as such. If you are posting a macro that is solely there smack a single button, then yeah, you'll have some time to reflect on it.
That isn't to say the material here is particularly relevant anymore, or particularly accurate, but to say there is no place for macros isn't quite right. Even in 3.0.8, there is a use case.
I think it's safe to call that post a vent
Macro mechanics, and even macros that keep 'baseline' abilities rolling while we take care of procs and whatnot are undeniably handy and worth discussing... but when people drop in out of nowhere and ask for a one-size-fits-all macro to cut'n'paste under their mousewheel, having either completely failed to read the thread or, having done so, haven't grasped that such a thing no longer exists... that doesn't help the Signal-to-Noise ratio at all.
There are plenty of valid tricks and tips that can be gathered here without artificially lowering your DPS or reducing your game interaction to pressing one button. If there are macro commands that eventually produce a rotation that cannot possibly be replicated by hand and is shown to be higher than manual weaving, then it is by all means welcome.
This isn't to stifle conversation on the topic, but to steer it away from promoting poor play. If you really think you have a valid point pertaining to macros then you'll present it as such. If you are posting a macro that is solely there smack a single button, then yeah, you'll have some time to reflect on it.
By that logic, it should be illegal to have kitchen knives since technically they can be used to kill people.
My point is that if a person is abusing/misusing macro scripts to lower their DPS and hunter IQ, whether intentional or not, it shouldn't automatically preclude others from otherwise gaining knowledge of valid and useful command scripting tips and techniques. Pet-skill prioritizing is a perfect example, which I wouldn't have learned if not from reading this thread months ago.
By banning people and censoring elements of the discussion, the knowledge base is being artificially and deliberately limited by those who agree to share your individual opinion.
I'm definitely not an advocate for a 1-macro-fits-all approach, but there are macros (and furthermore, derivatives thereof) that have genuine usefulness and deserve merit in the discussion.
By that logic, it should be illegal to have kitchen knives since technically they can be used to kill people.
My point is that if a person is abusing/misusing macro scripts to lower their DPS and hunter IQ, whether intentional or not, it shouldn't automatically preclude others from otherwise gaining knowledge of valid and useful command scripting tips and techniques. Pet-skill prioritizing is a perfect example, which I wouldn't have learned if not from reading this thread months ago.
By banning people and censoring elements of the discussion, the knowledge base is being artificially and deliberately limited by those who agree to share your individual opinion.
I'm definitely not an advocate for a 1-macro-fits-all approach, but there are macros (and furthermore, derivatives thereof) that have genuine usefulness and deserve merit in the discussion.
Note that he isn't saying "Do not post more macros here ever," he is simply trying to keep people from asking for/posting 1-button macros that try and use every hunter shot that there is. I imagine there will still be no problem with posted pet-ability macros and such, since those link together valuable abilities that would otherwise require sets of manic clicking in order to accomplish.
See bolded text from his post:
Originally Posted by Relwin
I've posted this in the Macros thread already, but I'll ramble off the gist of it here as well.
Currently, shot macros do not offer a mechanical advantage over 'by-hand' rotations, and are in fact less DPS when used over manual rotations. If you want a class that can achieve max DPS by smacking your head off the keyboard, you've chosen the wrong class and certainly come to the wrong place to look for macros to achieve that.
If you post looking for a shot macro, post a shot macro, or otherwise shit up the hunter boards with 'I want to bash one key for damage' crap, you'll earn yourself a week off.
I have tried several way of scripting macros, but most of them don't seem to work very well.
Like linking several shots to castrandom and so on.
So I worked out to make something a bit more optimal.
Note that the 3 macros are used together, using them separate is not optimal.
Except for the Pet macro which can be used for other specs as well.
Without knowledge about how a survival spec with Lock and Load works, these macros are pretty useless.
Since you need to pay attention to what goes on.
So you can't just close your eyes and spam them, which isn't the idea either.
The difference between handweaving and using the scripts below is that you might loose Serpent Sting up-time with the Lock and Load Rotation (lasts 6 seconds)
Plus if it is triggered at the wrong spot upon the normal rotation you risk to delay an Explosive Shot.
But if attention is payed, they do wonders.
These can only be used as Survival with Lock and Load / Explosive Shot.
First macro is the one I click spam just to keep the loop going.
It links to 2 modifier keys, 1 for putting up Hunter's Mark and another for using another rotation while Lock And Load is up.
Another thing that one could do is taking the Serpent Sting out of rotation and add it as modifier instead.
Button 10 on my Action Bar, bit in doubt if I should go with 18 or 24 seconds here, since with the new glyph change Serpent Sting lasts 21 seconds.
I got the idea expand it to 24 seconds and add 2 Aimed Shots into rotation.
So the Serpent Sting tick left out pr rotation shouldn't matter much I guess.
Plus that timing in Aimed Shot to exact every 10 seconds is impossible with Explosive Shot every 6 seconds.
At some point they will always end up at the same spot, which a hand weaved rotation won't prevent either.
The idea of a sequence it to tighten up shot delays.
So with a Global Cooldown limited to 1.5 seconds we want to get as close as 6 seconds between Explosive Shots.
Since that is the cooldown for them.
Note the [nomod] which means that without a pressed modifier key from the above macro, it will use the order of shots typed below.
Button 11 on my Action Bar, this is for a Raptor.
The idea is to provoke faster focus dumping and by that to increase the pets dps.
Since the priority of the build in auto trigger for pets doesn't seem to work optimal.
High crit rating required.
/cast Kill Command
/cast Savage Rend
/cast Claw
/cast Rabid
By that logic, it should be illegal to have kitchen knives since technically they can be used to kill people.
My point is that if a person is abusing/misusing macro scripts to lower their DPS and hunter IQ, whether intentional or not, it shouldn't automatically preclude others from otherwise gaining knowledge of valid and useful command scripting tips and techniques. Pet-skill prioritizing is a perfect example, which I wouldn't have learned if not from reading this thread months ago.
By banning people and censoring elements of the discussion, the knowledge base is being artificially and deliberately limited by those who agree to share your individual opinion.
I'm definitely not an advocate for a 1-macro-fits-all approach, but there are macros (and furthermore, derivatives thereof) that have genuine usefulness and deserve merit in the discussion.
Yeah, you are taking what I posted slightly too far. The shot macro behavior I'm looking to curtail is that of 'I need to respec gief macro'. If there are at some future point new macro commands or changes to hunter mechanics that produce a macro'd command that either gives notable utility to the class or produces DPS higher than can be achieved by average to slightly above average manual weaving, then by all means please do discuss it. Most of the reasoning for the strong hand in regards to macros currently is that it promotes poor play, is presented in worthless posts, and brings the wrong kind of player to our boards. Essentially, we have nothing to gain from folks yammering about one button macros than more stupid posts for me to infract.
Well, with most 1-button spam macros failing due to haste buffs, they're never going to be a true replacement for knowing what the hell you're doing in the first place. To me, it's a cruise-control to have something like a "/castsequence , xxx" macro.
The main thing is, reading these forums gives you ideas on how to make your own macros that fit your particular needs based on installed mods, key bindings, and play style. I've learned a lot personally, so hopefully discussing general macro ideas and mechanics is still encouraged.
Back on topic, I'd be very interested to see how people are using macros to deal with skill bloat. I've been a manual weaver since autoshot was unlinked, but I admit I'm not the most dexterous person, so my easily accessable keybinds are limited to 1-6, ~, Q, E, R, C, and F (I try to use z and x, but find that on movement fights they are of limited use). I've tried shift keybinds, but my left pinky is pretty much useless.
Back on topic, I'd be very interested to see how people are using macros to deal with skill bloat. I've been a manual weaver since autoshot was unlinked, but I admit I'm not the most dexterous person, so my easily accessable keybinds are limited to 1-6, ~, Q, E, R, C, and F (I try to use z and x, but find that on movement fights they are of limited use). I've tried shift keybinds, but my left pinky is pretty much useless.
My strategy is to bind common abilities to the same key with modifiers. I am considering writing up a macro that would save me space on my action bars- something that would send the pet in with shift, blow cooldowns without shift, and mend pet with ctrl-shift. I currently have to have a bar with each of these abilities taking a spot and bind them individually. I know that there are bar mods that allow key-binding to abilities right out of the spell book, but I'm not willing to make that jump yet.
Now that we're back to manually weaving our shots for maximum DPS is there a really good addon to visually see CDs and such? I used to use Soren's Easy Rotations back in day but I can't even find that anymore and I'm assuming it definitely hasn't been updated for Lich. I know u can use dot timers and such for CDs but Soren's was so nice to have all the hunter shots together and really made me a better weaver than otherwise (ie made me only decent versus horrible).
I dont know why, but this macro dont fire out Aimed Shot. Maybe the ",", maybe other things, but I'm searching for somewhat for Steady Shot, Aimed and ES.
Based on Relwin's post, I'm going to go ahead and write the disclaimer that these are NOT Shot macros. These are simply macros to consolidate some of the other abilities effectively based on information throughout this thread and that of the 3.08 thread in this same forum. I tried out the new SV in Naxx 25 last night and while it is a lot of fun, I can't see how you could possibly (or want to possibly) map out a "Single Button" spam for it. The LnL procs definitely require a good deal of attentiveness, so here's two macros I used last night and will continue to test in the coming weeks unless the rest of you can offer any alternatives to better them.
Essentially, my rotation was as follows, with the Shift Modifier for Serpent Sting to place any needed applications. It seemed to work fairly well:
ES > Serpent > SS > SS > ES > SS > SS > SS, ES, etc.
LnL Procs = ES > SS > ES> SS> ES
Now I had originally had the following line in my SS macro, but took it out because for some reason it felt like it might be delaying SSs that were needed to fill in gaps between ES. Is there any real benefit to having the /cast !Auto Shot line in the SS macro like you would find on the BM versions? I was torn as to whether or not I was decreasing any DPS by removing it.
You don't need the /cast !autoshot as whether it's available or not, trying to cast kill shot will turn on auto-attack. Also, I notice that your macros unregister error messages but don't re-register them after the macro ends... is this deliberate, or a space issue?
Back on topic, I'd be very interested to see how people are using macros to deal with skill bloat. I've been a manual weaver since autoshot was unlinked, but I admit I'm not the most dexterous person, so my easily accessable keybinds are limited to 1-6, ~, Q, E, R, C, and F (I try to use z and x, but find that on movement fights they are of limited use). I've tried shift keybinds, but my left pinky is pretty much useless.
If you're having issues with using shift as a modifier, try using alt.
It's by far the easiest to reach modifier for me personally as my thumb is generally close to the alt button.
You don't need the /cast !autoshot as whether it's available or not, trying to cast kill shot will turn on auto-attack. Also, I notice that your macros unregister error messages but don't re-register them after the macro ends... is this deliberate, or a space issue?
The UI error lines are there mainly because I assumed they needed to be. Given how new I was to the SV rotation last night, there were times where I'd hit some of the buttons at the wrong times or perhaps spam one of the keys a bit too long. Basically for my own sanity, I added them until I got the hang of things. At least that way I wouldn't get the "This is not ready yet" spam all over my screen should I start making multiple mistakes.
I tried out the new SV in Naxx 25 last night and while it is a lot of fun, I can't see how you could possibly (or want to possibly) map out a "Single Button" spam for it.
Think about fight like Sartharion with 3 adds up, fight like KJ, fight like Illidari Council or Mother Sharaz.
We can watch four or five cd and watch many things well? And very well?
Think about fight like Sartharion with 3 adds up, fight like KJ, fight like Illidari Council or Mother Sharaz.
We can watch four or five cd and watch many things well? And very well?
Locks do it. We're no dumber than they are.
Originally Posted by Macloud
The UI error lines are there mainly because I assumed they needed to be. Given how new I was to the SV rotation last night, there were times where I'd hit some of the buttons at the wrong times or perhaps spam one of the keys a bit too long. Basically for my own sanity, I added them until I got the hang of things. At least that way I wouldn't get the "This is not ready yet" spam all over my screen should I start making multiple mistakes.
I certainly understand that, but the effect of your code seems to be that every time you run a macro, you tell your client to turn off error messages and leave them off. Normally you would want to turn them back on at the end of the macro. Personally, I leave the error messages in because I think it reduces latency...
I certainly understand that, but the effect of your code seems to be that every time you run a macro, you tell your client to turn off error messages and leave them off. Normally you would want to turn them back on at the end of the macro. Personally, I leave the error messages in because I think it reduces latency...
As far as I know, that particular line of code and the "leaving off" of error messages doesn't affect my latency. At least not from what I can tell. Given that these buttons are hit multiple times, I can't see the point in turning error messages back on again within a single macro, just to have them turned off again in the next. Especially given that the ES and SS buttons are hit interchangeably. Seems weird to send them in a loop like that.
Yeah, you are taking what I posted slightly too far. The shot macro behavior I'm looking to curtail is that of 'I need to respec gief macro'. If there are at some future point new macro commands or changes to hunter mechanics that produce a macro'd command that either gives notable utility to the class or produces DPS higher than can be achieved by average to slightly above average manual weaving, then by all means please do discuss it. Most of the reasoning for the strong hand in regards to macros currently is that it promotes poor play, is presented in worthless posts, and brings the wrong kind of player to our boards. Essentially, we have nothing to gain from folks yammering about one button macros than more stupid posts for me to infract.
Fair enough deal!
Like most people here, I also don't wish to contribute to spreading poor practices among the hunter community. But we should not fear. It's easily proven that absolutely NO macro, no matter how omnipotent in design, can turn an unskilled hunter suddenly into a master of his class. A macro is a tool like any other hunter addon in his/her tool chest. It is only as useful or effective as the person wielding it.
That said, I can imagine scenarios where it is beneficial to fall back on a 1-button "fire-and-forget-it" macro during a boss encounter:
Phase 1, you're manually weaving and tearing down a boss, doing maximum DPS as normal.
Phase 2, one of those "survivability" phases kicks in... (don't stand in or near X; move to point A, count to 3, move to point B, etc.). In this phase, you & your pet staying alive takes priority over DPS, so you cleverly defer to your fallback macro. You can at least continue doing less-than-perfect DPS while busy concentrating on critical positioning and/or pet micromanagement instead of spell CDs. The alternative is to just partially or completely forgo firing that extra Explosive/Aimed/Chimera/etc. while the RL is shouting "NOBODY DIE!" at everyone.
Phase 3, you & your pet are alive and well; you return to manual weaving for maximum DPS as normal.
I believe this scenario represents a fair and valid application of a do-it-all macro to improve your overall damage.
Given that these buttons are hit multiple times, I can't see the point in turning error messages back on again within a single macro, just to have them turned off again in the next. Especially given that the ES and SS buttons are hit interchangeably. Seems weird to send them in a loop like that.
Because if you don't re-register them, then you won't see any other error messages when you aren't spamming things. Like if you're questing and you're trying to use an item but you're out of range, or you try to do something while mounted, stunned, etc. Sometimes people don't mind seeing those errors as they crop up, but they just don't want "ability is not ready yet" spamming them in combat.
It's easily proven that absolutely NO macro, no matter how omnipotent in design, can turn an unskilled hunter suddenly into a master of his class.
I believe the problem is actually a macro turning a decently skilled hunter into a blithering idiot whose macro completely ruins his performance, but since it's posted on ej.com, he assumes his problem lies elsewhere.
01/20/09, 8:52 PM
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