3.0.8 PTR Changes - Page 10

Ryas · 01/05/09, 5:35 PM

That's what it seems like. I assume they are changing how ammo works, which will change something with how our damage works. Unless it has nothing to do with ammo and they are doing something completely different. Why bother posting that though is my question, unless you plan on elaborating at all.

Garby · 01/05/09, 5:36 PM

Originally Posted by Mikari

Well on the PTR Scorpids are still better than cats, though I'm guessing now it doesn't stack poison isn't going to be anywhere near as good.

The numbers being referred to are not implemented on the PTR, and by the sound of it are not going to be.

TrevvyTrev · 01/05/09, 5:39 PM

Originally Posted by Mikari

Well on the PTR Scorpids are still better than cats, though I'm guessing now it doesn't stack poison isn't going to be anywhere near as good.

Right. That's what GC meant when he said: "These will be in the next patch (3.0.8) even though they were not on the PTR." The reason people didn't notice a nerf to scorpids and cats was because they hadn't gotten around to nerfing them yet, despite what the patch notes may have said. The whole reason he posted those numbers was in response to people saying that scorpids were still too good, etc.

Originally Posted by Ryas

That's what it seems like. I assume they are changing how ammo works, which will change something with how our damage works. Unless it has nothing to do with ammo and they are doing something completely different. Why bother posting that though is my question, unless you plan on elaborating at all.

Because posting it now might quiet some posts that say things like, "sure we seem okay now, but come Ulduar other classes will outscale us as they get better gear," or "does Blizzard even understant scaleing [sic]?" which probably is mentioned in 75% of the threads regarding the subject.

Chul · 01/05/09, 5:46 PM

So scorpid poison is nerfed to around 20% of the previous value. Seems about right. I hope they increase the cooldown of the ability otherwise it's just wasting focus now it doesn't need to stack.

Rake doesn't seem to have changed much at all unless it is now affected by armour. My previous testing on the PTR had teh coefficient at 6% but the DoT part still was 7% so maybe they've fixed that too.

Does anyone understand the change to spirit strike? It says every 6s for 6s (ticks twice). How can that be? Or does it mean what it does now - initial hit then another hit 6s later which means it hits twice?

TrevvyTrev · 01/05/09, 5:47 PM

Originally Posted by Chul

Or does it mean what it does now - initial hit then another hit 6s later which means it hits twice?

This one, except the first one can finally crit.

Gaj · 01/05/09, 5:51 PM

Originally Posted by Chul

So scorpid poison is nerfed to around 20% of the previous value. Seems about right. I hope they increase the cooldown of the ability otherwise it's just wasting focus now it doesn't need to stack.

It looks like there is no reason to bring a scorp over a cat for raid DPS now. At least I get a stable slot back.

flimflam · 01/05/09, 7:29 PM

Deleted

Garby · 01/05/09, 7:30 PM

Originally Posted by flimflam

I haven't seen this posted but GC has posted the new Scorpid/Cat/Spirit Beast numbers:

Source: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Exotic Pet damage and PTR

This was posted on the previous page, post #221.

Rokh · 01/05/09, 8:45 PM

So, they bumped down Scorpid Poison considerably, changed Rake's base damage and tick to not be a range and slightly lowered the tick base damage, but left the coefficient alone? So Cats will still be the best pet.

Also what was the old Spirit Strike coefficient? That looks the same.. making the initial hit crit is some good, that'll put them ahead of Devilsaurs as best Exotic DPS pet.

Metrosexuelf · 01/06/09, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Sebudai

It's not worth having because exotic pets are significantly worse than non-exotic pets right now. If the exotic pets come out even dps-wise with the non-exotic pets, I think it's a viable talent. Especially after the Readiness nerf. Of course I think exotic pets should do slightly more dps than the other options, but I'll probably spend a point there as long as they're at least doing equal dps(assuming I'm even spec'ing BM at that point.)

I think people undervalue the benefit the 4 extra pet talent points Beast Mastery gives simply because they don't increase dps. I mean, it certainly should be a slightly better talent, but it's not that bad. It's close to being perfectly balanced I think.

In 3.08 it will be viable/beneficial again. Of course that has more to do with addition by subtraction through the adjustments to Readiness and cats/scorpids. I never doubted the utility of four extra pet talents, just the suitability of it being the main basis for a 51 point talent; especially when you compare it to Explosive Shot and Chimera Shot.

Clay · 01/06/09, 2:46 AM

Originally Posted by Rokh

So, they bumped down Scorpid Poison considerably, changed Rake's base damage and tick to not be a range and slightly lowered the tick base damage, but left the coefficient alone? So Cats will still be the best pet.

Cats still the best pet? How do you figure, since it's common knowledge that scorpids outdps cats easily. Even on the PTR.

thanew · 01/06/09, 2:49 AM

Originally Posted by Clay

Cats still the best pet? How do you figure, since it's common knowledge that scorpids outdps cats easily. Even on the PTR.

These changes aren't on the PTR.... scorpid poison no longer stacks. Cats win fairly easily

Garby · 01/06/09, 2:51 AM

Originally Posted by Clay

Cats still the best pet? How do you figure, since it's common knowledge that scorpids outdps cats easily. Even on the PTR.

Are you incapable of reading? This whole page is covered with posts relating to the nerf to Scorpid Poison.

HellyardsOwn · 01/06/09, 3:54 AM

Originally Posted by TrevvyTrev

This one, except the first one can finally crit.

Has anyone run numbers on the new spirit beast as of the cat/scorpid nerf? I will likely be respecing out of BM for progression content (Sarth+3, and eventually, when we do Ulduar), but for things like Naxx and Malygos, I would love to actually get to use my spirit beast if it's damage is anywhere near competitive (as anyone who camped his spawn will tell you, it is not as of live). I think fixing the longevity conflicts and giving it a chance to crit is exactly what it needed as well as possibly a new coefficient. Just hoping this ends well for spirit beasts although I'll likely be Survival spec. They truely are an awesome looking pet.

Clay · 01/06/09, 4:17 AM

Originally Posted by Garby

Are you incapable of reading? This whole page is covered with posts relating to the nerf to Scorpid Poison.

I certainly must be. Although, I was asking how he figured 'cat is still the best pet' since it hasn't been for a long time, and even on the PTR the scorpids outdps them. Also, we dont have the final numbers for the poison.

say what

Melkunie · 01/06/09, 4:24 AM

Originally Posted by Clay

I certainly must be. Although, I was asking how he figured 'cat is still the best pet' since it hasn't been for a long time, and even on the PTR the scorpids outdps them. Also, we dont have the final numbers for the poison.

say what

Rank 6 Scorpid Poison - 20 base Nature damage per tick, ticks every 2 sec for 10 sec, 0.04 coefficient, 1 stack max

Gorah · 01/06/09, 4:38 AM

Originally Posted by Clay

I certainly must be. Although, I was asking how he figured 'cat is still the best pet' since it hasn't been for a long time, and even on the PTR the scorpids outdps them. Also, we dont have the final numbers for the poison.

say what

PTR scorpids are not reflecting the change made to them. It has been stated plenty times already. PTR scorpid is same as live scorpid, thus your argument is wrong. Scorpid poison numbers are indicating serious nerf to the poison, making them clearly subpar to cats, as Rake doesn't feel nerfed too much.

Endage · 01/06/09, 5:08 AM

I will try a Wasp too after the changes hit live. They could have some potential with a 6 second cooldown damaging ability that ignores armor and get's boosted by Ebon Plague/Earth and Moon.

Melkunie · 01/06/09, 5:39 AM

Sneak peak at the upcoming ammo changes? These icons got added in the latest ptr.

Ikuzo · 01/06/09, 6:02 AM

snip.

Melkunie · 01/06/09, 6:14 AM

What i can picture from looking at those new icons:

- The first 2 bullet icons look like a belt alike way of sorting bullets. 1 stack for more then 200 bullets or just a bag that's infinite or has durability?
- The arrows, Poison, frost, fire and wind anyone?

Especially the arrows are weird. It would be the biggest hunter change since Steady shot in TBC.

Houjit · 01/06/09, 6:54 AM

Here's my take:

Ammo belt
Ammo belt
New ammo rank
Frost bullet, does additional frost damage on hit
Explosive bullet, fire damage on hit
Nature arrow, nature damage on hit
Frost arrow, frost damage on hit
Armor pen arrow, ignores some armor on hit
New arrow rank

After reading Melkunie's comment above I think my best guess is that 1 + 2 are ammo belts, a replacement of sorts for pouches and quivers. Hunters buy one (infinite) stack of each type of ammo and it gets added to their belt (think along the lines of the Keyring). The character pane would need a tweak to make it easier to switch between ammo but that should be straight forward.

If we're right about ammo having different abilities, it could mean that damage effects from them could stack (like Scorpid Poison) which would be a nice benefit for PvE and so-so for PvP. I get the sense though that Blizzard are moving away from stacking effects.

zaphodox · 01/06/09, 7:22 AM

Originally Posted by Chul

I hope they increase the cooldown of the ability otherwise it's just wasting focus now it doesn't need to stack.

The scorpid was the PvP pet of choice during TBC because the stacking effect of the poison made the debuffs harder to cleanse in PvP. If the cooldown was increased it would increase the time it takes to get a full stack ergo reduce the effectiveness of this pet in PvP.

I would go further and wager that the scorpid type was never intended for PvE dps purposes and any changes now or in the future to the scorpid poison will reflect the pets use a PvP tool.

Originally Posted by Houjit

Here's my take:

Armor pen arrow, ignores some armor on hit
New arrow rank

I would wager those last two arrows (rightmost two of the arrow graphics above) deal fire and shadow damage.

**edit** removed the picture from the quote.

Huntalicious · 01/06/09, 9:23 AM

from MMO-Champion

Aspects on the current PTR are on the same global cool-down of everything else.

Is this just left out of the PTRs or is this a change that we should expect in the game?

Ghostcrawler resonse:

Initially we removed the GCD. Then the more we thought about it, what we were asking hunters to do was quickly swap aspects as needed (and more likely just macro them). We thought hunters had a lot of buttons to push already especially when melee get on you and intead just made a new aspect so you could get the benefits of both defense and ranged and wouldn't have to swap as much. If you are just swapping to Viper, the cooldown doesn't seem like a big imposition.

So as i understand Aspects will have global cooldowns again?

ligghtpro · 01/06/09, 9:45 AM

Originally Posted by zaphodox

The scorpid was the PvP pet of choice during TBC because the stacking effect of the poison made the debuffs harder to cleanse in PvP. If the cooldown was increased it would increase the time it takes to get a full stack ergo reduce the effectiveness of this pet in PvP.

Except the scorpid's poison isn't going to stack to 5 anymore, it's going to behave just like Serpent Sting now. Refreshing a 10 second dot every 3 seconds isn't very sensible.

My personal prediction for the ammo change is that they'll be converted to a hunter version of Idols/Totems/Sigils/Librams, with various ammo types giving different bonuses. I'd halfway expect ammo bags to go away completely, and their 15% haste being available on an ammo type.