3.0.8 PTR Changes - Page 10

Zwaineroth · 12/24/08, 3:11 PM

Could anyone post or link to more PTR data on BM and Survival? Are any guilds/groups posting raid WWSes from the PTR?

I'm seeing a flat 1k (5k versus 6k) difference between BM and Surv on the DPS sheet, which puts BM at the bottom of all pure DPS classes judging from my guild's raids, and Surv at the same place BM is now (ahead by 200-400 at all times) with much better scaling. As much as I'd love to see it go live this way, it's a bad idea given the complaints about BM as it is now.

Also, any info on how MM builds are doing would also be appreciated.

I think the trap dancing discussion has been beaten to death in this thread and the Survival one, no?

Arcazua · 12/24/08, 9:41 PM

Originally Posted by Bovii

No, you don't want to believe that it isn't intended because you want it to be up more often than it was originally designed. It is supposed to be a slight and intermitent boost to our DPS. It isn't supposed to be a continuous on-demand burst.

Maybe, but that's because it isn't really that big a deal under the current mechanics. With 3.0.8, the added damage from Explosive justifies it, but right now I feel like waiting on LnL's sting procs is just obnoxious and underproductive. Granted, Shandara's spreadsheet does suggest I'm getting 80 DPS from it now, but I don't think that potential is fully realized. I would rather have Explosive buffed only slightly and get better results from Lock and Load just because it feels like it's supposed to be important...and right now, it really doesn't. It feels like an occasional bonus.

As you said, "it is supposed to be a slight and intermitent (sic) boost," but the design of the tree just...doesn't make it feel like that's the way it's supposed to be.

Zerlu · 12/25/08, 9:53 AM

Originally Posted by Arcazua

Maybe, but that's because it isn't really that big a deal under the current mechanics. With 3.0.8, the added damage from Explosive justifies it, but right now I feel like waiting on LnL's sting procs is just obnoxious and underproductive. Granted, Shandara's spreadsheet does suggest I'm getting 80 DPS from it now, but I don't think that potential is fully realized. I would rather have Explosive buffed only slightly and get better results from Lock and Load just because it feels like it's supposed to be important...and right now, it really doesn't. It feels like an occasional bonus.

As you said, "it is supposed to be a slight and intermitent (sic) boost," but the design of the tree just...doesn't make it feel like that's the way it's supposed to be.

How else could it feel? The trap portion of LnL is obviously to make someone pay dearly for activating a SV hunter's trap, while the sting portion is there to give a slight DPS buff to Survival dps while simultaneously making it less boring.

Its a damned good talent, and I fully expect Blizz nerf traps back so that they don't affect boss level mobs. Better that than nerfing the talent itself.

Sombreblanco · 12/25/08, 2:13 PM

I mean, to make it a bit more efficient in all situations, they could simply up the chance for LnL to proc off a sting tick. 10-15% seems decent enough to make it worth it.

Esoth · 12/25/08, 3:24 PM

The chance for serpent sting to proc in one minute is fairly close to that of Nightfall (warlock affliction), both of which are procs that occur from periodic damage. Didn't Blizzard say they wanted these talents fairly similar in that regard, or am I remembering incorrectly?

Edit: Nightfall proc chance with both corruption and drain life on the target is .04*.04+.04*.96*2=.0784 (I think... Correct the math if it's wrong but I believe this is basically the chance that both will proc and twice the chance that one but not the other will proc). So slightly ahead of LnL, but LnL also has the trap component. All abilities involved have 3 second periods. So, to me, these talents seem fairly well balanced and thus not likely to change.

flimflam · 12/25/08, 5:32 PM

I always thought the trap portion of LnL was designed towards PvP while the sting was for PvE. You use traps a lot in PvP and that on demand burst is a nice boost. While in PvE we always have Serpent Sting up.

Hopefully a blue will post what they think about it.

Keldin · 12/26/08, 8:46 AM

Originally Posted by Levidian

...MM would use chimera/steady/serp and potentially arcane...

Isn't Aimed Shot better dps with the Barrage talent instead of Arcane with Imp Arcane Shot? Also Aimed has a better Glyph to benefit from (Glyph of Trueshot Aura - Item - World of Warcraft).

Levidian · 12/26/08, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by flimflam

I always thought the trap portion of LnL was designed towards PvP while the sting was for PvE. You use traps a lot in PvP and that on demand burst is a nice boost. While in PvE we always have Serpent Sting up.

Hopefully a blue will post what they think about it.

Yea that's basically right. It's so the talent has raid dps and PvP use.

Levidian · 12/26/08, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Keldin

Isn't Aimed Shot better dps with the Barrage talent instead of Arcane with Imp Arcane Shot? Also Aimed has a better Glyph to benefit from (Glyph of Trueshot Aura - Item - World of Warcraft).

Whichever does more damage yes. Hell depending on mana efficiency you might see Chimera>aimed>arcane>steady>whatever instant is up next.

Esoth · 12/26/08, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Levidian

Whichever does more damage yes. Hell depending on mana efficiency you might see Chimera>aimed>arcane>steady>whatever instant is up next.

Arcane has the same mana cost as steady on the PTR and way more damage so it should really be a no-brainer. You're only adding the 3% base mana cost of aimed shot every ~10 seconds - unglyphed. Aimed shot does so much more damage than steady (about twice) that it should be a better choice than steady almost always.

Glodd · 12/26/08, 10:13 PM

Is there any word on whether putting the GCD back on aspects is intentional or likely to go live? Ghostcrawler hasn't said anything on it, likely because he's been kept busy on the forums with a lot of other things lately, like the documented changes.

Bovii · 12/26/08, 10:17 PM

Could be that they don't know as it wasn't intentional. On the PvP test realm (yeah, the Spanish one - don't ask), they still haven't updated the changes to Arcane Shot's mana cost and on both realms, the left shoulder armor graphic, at least for the male Taurens, is about 50% smaller than it should be.

Glodd · 12/26/08, 10:21 PM

Yeah, it does seem like old code accidentally slips in on the PTRs sometimes. Look at the Serpent Sting glyph + Chimera Shot interaction bug mentioned earlier for example.

Aika · 12/27/08, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Esoth

The chance for serpent sting to proc in one minute is fairly close to that of Nightfall (warlock affliction), both of which are procs that occur from periodic damage. Didn't Blizzard say they wanted these talents fairly similar in that regard, or am I remembering incorrectly?

Ghostcrawler said something similar to that at the end of September (Answers to a few recent questions):

The design we settled on is 2/4/6, making it better than Nightfall (for comparison). If it's too low, we'll adjust it.

I believe that's the last statement from Blizzard on the question of how frequently L&L should proc.

KraxisSingular · 12/28/08, 8:34 AM

I have noticed that a few people are reporting that Auto is beating out Steady for non-crits. Has anyone done any specific testing on this with a Fine Light Crossbow?

I mean, if I haven't misunderstood the mechanics of Auto and Steady, Steady should be more damage per shot as long as it's scaling is better than about 7% AP. And it even has a flat bonus damage. So are people just seeing the RNG messing up? Or have I messed up the understanding of it?