Has anyone on the PTR tested a 51/20 or 53/18 build with Improved Arcane and the Arcane Glyph?

Haven't tested on the PTR, but the spreadsheet can model it. Puts it around 5500 dps, which is roughly the same as a BM hunter with devilsaur. So it's not bad, but...

If LnL also worked on Chimera Shot, it'd probably be a pretty good spec.

Im surprised to see no one has mentioned or noticed the following bug.

Currently on PTR, they have fixed the bug where Chimera Shot wouldnt refresh the serpent sting to a 21 sec duration but instead to a 18 sec duration which in turn would yield a 20% dmg increase to Chimera Shot-Serpent Sting instead of the intended 40% (assuming you have the serpent sting glyph ofcourse, which should be the case). However, the current bug is worse: Chimera Shot-Serpent Sting only does damage as if you wouldnt have the serpent sting glyph /sigh.

So lets say your serpent sting would tick for 550 on a target dummy and you have the serpent sting glyph (7 ticks total). On current PTR build your Chimera Shot will hit/crit for a certain amount, followed by Chimera Shot-Serpent Sting which does 40% of [total serpent sting] dmg. Without glyph your serpent sting would do 5x550 = 2750 damage, which would mean the Chimera Shot-Serpent Sting shot would do 40% of that = 1100 dmg (2x550). With Serpent glyph however, you would expect Chimera Shot-Serpent Sting to do 7x550x0.4= 1540 dmg. However on current PTR build this is not the case. I hope (and expect) this is an unintended bug, and that it will be fixed before it goes live.

Can we get confirmation on this? I can not get in the ptr to save my life

Would anyone be able to tell me if, as a BM hunter, it's more valuable for Savage Rend to go off with KC (possibly KC/Bestial Wrath since my BW is every 1.17 seconds atm), or for it to go off every 42 seconds with longevity, over the course of a fight?

As a BM hunter you would benefit even more if you wait for Cobra Strikes proc to manually cast Savage Rend. Savage Rend + KC combo is ideal for MM hunters who don't go down into Cobra Strikes.

LNL will now have a 3% / 7& / 10 % chance to proc on stings. Discuss.

Well I think its a small buff to the sting proc which will not change much - still I think it is better to go trap dancing. The change that would make the serpent sting proc replace the trap proc in pve would be the following:

If you have a serpent sting proc - you cannot have a trap trigger LnL for the next 30sec and vice versa - and remove the 30sec cd that they they said they are gonna add.

Since you are using serpent sting all the time for SS glyph and the 3% more dmg - you will not need to go trap dancing anymore. If they actually let it be 10% to proc with serpent sting, statisticly it takes 30sec for it to proc (10ticks).
So this means that you will have the same benefit from trap dancing as you will have from serpent sting (every thirty seconds)

This way : you will use traps to trigger LnL in pvp and actually use resourcefullness to get LnL every 24sec (and make this talent finally a good pvp talent)
you will use serpent sting to trigger LnL in pve and actually use sniper training.

This way you will not go trap dancing in pve which is something I think no hunter really wants to do (and if blizz wants to make traps more viable for pve - increase the dps of immo-explo trap by a lot-so you will use them whenever you are near some boss/thrash cause of the fight/circumstances)

Now if you are thinking that with resourcefullness - trap dancing will be better than serpent sting - think of the benefit of sniper training and how much better dps you can do if you are standing still 30yards away from boss and not running back and forth every 24sec.

Give more opinions though

At this point they should really give LnL a 20 second cooldown, and make it 100% on serpent sting application or trap. Every Hunter in the game should be using Serpent glyph next patch and it solves a lot of the RNG issues with the talent.

Bumping it to 10% still doesn't solve the problem, but it does make it a lot more likely to proc every 30 seconds in PvE.

As for Sniper Training, this talent has issues with fight design more than anything else and unless they make a bunch of yawn-a-thon stand still encounters I still feel the points invested in this talent will server a limited purpose. 15% crit on Kill Shot is nice but would be better placed in the MM tree where you can at least readiness a second KS on some encounters (On second thought, with the cooldown reduction on KS this may change my opinion, we'll see how long boss fights last in Ulduar.)

Even with this change, there are Pros and Cons.
If you're relying on LnL procs through stings, there's no guarantee that it will proc EVERY 30 secs. it just means there's a chance it will proc every 30 secs.
On the other hand, if you're relying on the proc from traps, then yes you can guarantee it every 30 second, BUT you will lose dps from moving in and out of melee range.
I think it has become a matter of convenience or playstyle.

Another change is Some of the aspects trigger GCD, those are AotD, AotB, and AotC. I thought they had decided to keep them off the GCD list.

Other people should test to see if this is happening to them too

I misread you as 0/51/20 or 0/53/18 then. Sorry.

Right now, in 25 man raids at least, BM with even 1 point into Invigoration is so mana efficient that spamming expensive arcane shot isn't a problem. The mana you save with the glyph isn't needed, and post-3.0.8 BM will have essentially unlimited mana in a raid situation.

Improved Tracking is, point-per-point, better than Improved Arcane Shot. Both IT and Survival Instincts provide more dps per point than Mortal Shots, since steady and arcane shot provide 95% of a BM hunter's yellow dps. And buffing serpent sting with Imp Stings is buffing 5% of your personal dps; those 3 points end up increasing your total output by a mere 0.75-1%.

Spreadsheet sez (assuming a devilsaur):

51/20/0: 5415 dps (No aimed)
51/20/0: 5450 dps (With aimed)
53/18/0: 5480 dps (With aimed)
54/15/2: 5525 dps (With aimed)
53/11/7: 5534 dps (It's so efficient it doesn't even need Invigoration)

So, 53/18/0 with aimed is indeed perfectly fine. The only caveat is that in some 10/5 man groups, aimed shot will likely become too mana intensive to be an actual dps increase. A trade-off: another instant that brings MS, or silly good mana efficiency with just barely more raid dps (theoretically the spec can go almost 13 minutes before OOM).

Could you post a link to these specs if possible?

Hehe i meant on these forums actually. Anyway, the bug isnt a major loss in dps from what i can tell; when looking on my WWS logs for Patchwerk for example, Chimera Shot does about 10% of my total damage, Serpent Sting ticks about 5%, and Chimera Shot-Serpent Sting another 5%, so all in all this would account for a 1% damage loss compared to live servers. Then again, im fairly positive this is a bug and will get fixed.

That would be too easy to play, and too much damage for just refreshing a sting, since we are already doing that to make use of Steady Shot Glyph.

I'm assuming that the last spec you mentioned, with no Invigoration would be like this 53/11/7?
And you assumed a Devilsaur as pet. It's because they ended with a higher damage or you assumed that to make the tests flatter?

I assume those numbers are with the pre-3.0.8 spreadsheet, as I can't push BM that high with the newer ones.

Actually no it was discussed to take them back off

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - GC is the conversation over reg. Hunter GCD?

The latest changes with the aspects on the PTR was done after this thread. They were on, then off, then on again, then Plops posted this thread, then they were off again, then some were put back on. Dizzy yet?

Beyond dizzy, I don't even understand why they would keep AotP off the gcd but not AotC.

The real issue with this is PvP. This talent is clearly designed for both PvE dmg and PvP burst and so while this would be a decent solution for PvE, it would basically prevent players in arena using serpent sting because they need the burst on command, and usually when trapping.

Personally I cant see them finding a solution that works properly for both arena and raids, as hunters basically want different things from the talent for those 2 situations, the best solution is probably a glyph, perhaps reducing LnL CD by a fraction of resilience and removing the sepent sting procs so that an arena player can benefit from lower trap CDs without pushing back LnL, dont have to worry about a random LnL serpent proc wasting their burst for when they need it, and at the same time preventing PvE players from abusing this because the damage lost from wearing resilience gear wouldnt be worth the lower LnL CD.

sorry to bring up old topics in this discussion and this is my first post to dont hurt me to much.

as anyone seen different from this? If this is the case, i might want to go tame a raptor.

also, are they going back and rechecking the stuff hunters have seen reguarding the 3.0.8 patch? i heard/read they are now starting to see the stuff we are seeing.

Its better, but I think the 30 CD for it is a little to much. The Trapdancing spec looses DPS because of it and you might as well be a regular Ranged SV hunter after that. I would love to see it more at 5/10/15% then 3/7/10%.

delete this plz