I have a question, that may sound odd or dumb, but lets say you are a MM with LnL (2/51/18), and a arcane glyph, would the 2 arcane shots fired return the 20% of their mana cost, even though they do not cost any mana?
Unfortunately I can not do the math until very late tonight, but I would like to how viable a MM LnL build would be, with the higher proc chance, and if we did get a return on non spent mana. The spread sheet does not offer any numbers of how LnL affects Arcane, since it assumes (rightfully so) only ES will be fired off.
The real issue with this is PvP. This talent is clearly designed for both PvE dmg and PvP burst and so while this would be a decent solution for PvE, it would basically prevent players in arena using serpent sting because they need the burst on command, and usually when trapping.
Personally I cant see them finding a solution that works properly for both arena and raids, as hunters basically want different things from the talent for those 2 situations, the best solution is probably a glyph, perhaps reducing LnL CD by a fraction of resilience and removing the sepent sting procs so that an arena player can benefit from lower trap CDs without pushing back LnL, dont have to worry about a random LnL serpent proc wasting their burst for when they need it, and at the same time preventing PvE players from abusing this because the damage lost from wearing resilience gear wouldnt be worth the lower LnL CD.
Aye it's going to be tough to implement, even if the CD is reduced by resil it's still possible for traps and LnL to falll out of sync. No CD and making bosses immune to traps solves all the problems but removing the option to use one of our abilities on bosses is hardly ideal.
So I understand this correctly- are we looking at Survival spec replacing Beast Mastery as the best straight DPS build in the next patch? All my guild cares about is me providing the biggest numbers I can, and if that path goes through SV then I want to draw the shortest possible line between the hunter I am now and the SV hunter I need to become.
So I understand this correctly- are we looking at Survival spec replacing Beast Mastery as the best straight DPS build in the next patch? All my guild cares about is me providing the biggest numbers I can, and if that path goes through SV then I want to draw the shortest possible line between the hunter I am now and the SV hunter I need to become.
Bluepost from MMO-Champion:
DPS comparison between classes
The context is everything. If players are comparing themselves to a dual-wielding DK doing 7000 dps, yes then of course they are going to feel like their dps is puny. But in that example they are comparing themselves to a class in a broken situation. If we notice that players with low or high numbers always have a certain spec then it might lead us to find a bug in the spec. Assassination rogues are a little low at the moment because there was a bug in Master Poisoner for a long time that nobody detected. When we fixed it, their dps dropped. Some fights greatly favor certain classes or specs. Patch is great for classes that can blow their cooldowns to great effect. Warriors like fights like Thaddius with lots of free rage generation through damage. The context is everything.
It is really going to depend on your style of play, and whether or not you can utilize a certain tree's abilities to their utmost. If you're not that good at one of the specs, even if it is the highest potential dps spec out there, you're going to see sub-par numbers. This latest patch is going to bring all three tree fairly close in DPS for the first time in a long time; play what you know, and what you like.
i would imagine that the shot rotation for these would all be the same they are now.
BM: Marks > BW > Serpent > steady till refresh serpent or shoot a arcane here and there maybe (a big maybe)
These projections assume the 3.08 changes, so the arcane shot is not a maybe, but a definitely. BM will use arcane whenever the cooldown is up. It will cost the same as steady, but do more damage. It's a no-brainer.
Ok so some of the Aspects just seemed to be bugged after GC's recent post, they will not trigger the GCD in live like he stated before. I just got scare ;p
Shot/Ability Priority for each spec was set to the following: MM
Rapid Fire
Blood Fury
Kill Shot
Chimera Shot
Aimed Shot
Arcane Shot
Readiness
Serpent Sting
Steady Shot
Is this optimal? The way I've typically done my rotation is that I readiness after Chimera Shot - it seems like the globals you're spending fitting aimed/arcane in there will delay your readiness a bit to desynch it from your rapid fire cooldown, and it's not clear that squeezing those in are going to be better damage output than immediately resetting your chimera cooldown and firing it again.
I believe the spreadsheet doesn't simulate the ability to roll serpent by stacking all ap buffs right away then using Chimera to keep that value going. That's at least another ~50 dps from serpent alone and somewhere between 50-100 more dps from increased chim-serp damage.
Been looking through all the info. I was looking for one thing in particular that I can't seem to find information on.
I know right now that for BM gemming for attack power is the way to go because of pet scaling. What I was wondering is if that is still the case in 3.0.8.
Would gemming for attack power still be best for BM?
I am assuming that for MM attack power would still be best and that for SV you would gem agility. Is that correct?
Been looking through all the info. I was looking for one thing in particular that I can't seem to find information on.
I know right now that for BM gemming for attack power is the way to go because of pet scaling. What I was wondering is if that is still the case in 3.0.8.
Would gemming for attack power still be best for BM?
I am assuming that for MM attack power would still be best and that for SV you would gem agility. Is that correct?
I think BM will still use attack power, and even now, high end marks gets more benefit from agility over attack power. There is a Hunter gem guide topic with more details.
I get the impression Ghostcrawler had been talking about different (slightly lower) numbers for Explosive shot than were currently on the PTR, which brought SV damage closer to MM/BM. Am I mistaken? If not, are these new numbers seen in the new 9464 build? thanks.
In addition to the nerf/bug i described earlier, where Chimera Shot ignores serpent sting glyph and just treats it as if it will only tick 5 times (damage wise that is, it will refresh the sting to a 21 sec duration, but Chimera Shot-Serpent Sting deals damage as if Serpent would only tick 5 times), it now also refreshes your serpent sting so that it adjusts to your AP at the time!
No more Call of the Wild + 'AP on Use' trinket at start of a tank and spank fight in order for maximum DoT's on boss
This was part of the challenge as a MM hunter imo, to try to keep that buffed Serpent Sting up on boss until he dies. In fights like Patchwerk this was no challenge, but in a fight like Grobbulus it was part of the fun to run halfway across the room to dump your disease explosion, then jump backwards with Disengage just in time to refresh your buffed Serpert Sting.
I sincerely hope this is an unintended bug, affliction warlocks and shadowpriests have the same mechanism with their Everlasting Corruption and Shadow Word: Pain, respectively. I am sad
That change fits the change to lifebloom and scorpid poison refreshing in an earlier patch. So I am sure it is an intended change and the similar talents of other classes will be treated the same either now or at least in a later patch.
In addition to the nerf/bug i described earlier, where Chimera Shot ignores serpent sting glyph and just treats it as if it will only tick 5 times (damage wise that is, it will refresh the sting to a 21 sec duration, but Chimera Shot-Serpent Sting deals damage as if Serpent would only tick 5 times), it now also refreshes your serpent sting so that it adjusts to your AP at the time!
No more Call of the Wild + 'AP on Use' trinket at start of a tank and spank fight in order for maximum DoT's on boss
This was part of the challenge as a MM hunter imo, to try to keep that buffed Serpent Sting up on boss until he dies. In fights like Patchwerk this was no challenge, but in a fight like Grobbulus it was part of the fun to run halfway across the room to dump your disease explosion, then jump backwards with Disengage just in time to refresh your buffed Serpert Sting.
In regards to your first nerf/bug - I doubt very much that it has ever been intended for [Glyph of Serpent Sting] to also buff Chimeara Shot, or it would probably have been written in the glyph. Hence it is probably not a bug that CS only deals extra damage as if SrS is unglyphed, but rather has been a bug if CS has dealt more damage with a glyphed SrS.
In regards to the CotW + on use trinkets. This as clearly been unintended behaviour being able to keep a powered SrS rolling - anyone that kept up with discussions about rolling a spell / ability should know this from the nerf that hit druids on lifebloom, which was this exact behaviour.
Edit: I somehow missed the post just above me even though its about 2 hours old at my time of posting. I will keep the comment in regardless though
The second part of attack power stacking sounds right, like others mentioned, but at least in the spread sheet I do not believe it's being represented otherwise. So the number we project now, are about what we will get. The Glyph on the other hand is not, and it is a pretty good nerf. Rough math would indicate MM falling behind BM in dps output over longer fights. The longer the encounter, the greater the gap, as far as I can see it. Even by changing out the glyph does not make a significant difference in the dps.
In regards to your first nerf/bug - I doubt very much that it has ever been intended for [Glyph of Serpent Sting] to also buff Chimeara Shot, or it would probably have been written in the glyph. Hence it is probably not a bug that CS only deals extra damage as if SrS is unglyphed, but rather has been a bug if CS has dealt more damage with a glyphed SrS.
In regards to the CotW + on use trinkets. This as clearly been unintended behaviour being able to keep a powered SrS rolling - anyone that kept up with discussions about rolling a spell / ability should know this from the nerf that hit druids on lifebloom, which was this exact behaviour.
Edit: I somehow missed the post just above me even though its about 2 hours old at my time of posting. I will keep the comment in regardless though
I can see why they would remove the powered Serpent Sting rolling. However, looking at the description of Chimera Shot it says wrt Serpent Sting: 'deals 40% of the total damage done by the sting', I really dont see why adding 2 extra ticks (increasing the damage done by the sting by an additional 40%, going from 5 to 7 ticks) should not increase the damage done by Chimera Shot-Serpent Sting.
I really dont see why adding 2 extra ticks (increasing the damage done by the sting by an additional 40%, going from 5 to 7 ticks) should not increase the damage done by Chimera Shot-Serpent Sting.
Glyph of SrS increasing duration of SrS by 40% and increasing CS SrS damage component by 40%? That sounds pretty OP for 1 glyph compared to what the other major glyphs do.
The main reason it seems wrong, is that CS is looking at SrS damage, and the glyph doesn't directly modify SrS damage, only the uptime (which of course increases the damage per SrS, but doesn't affect the dps of SrS).
I would agree that the CS tooltip could mislead people in regards to teh glyph, but since the glyph modifies the spell SrS it seems very natural (at least to my way of thinking with regards to tooltips) that it should not affect anything based on SrS, except when checking whether SrS is up.
Glyph of SrS increasing duration of SrS by 40% and increasing CS SrS damage component by 40%? That sounds pretty OP for 1 glyph compared to what the other major glyphs do.
The main reason it seems wrong, is that CS is looking at SrS damage, and the glyph doesn't directly modify SrS damage, only the uptime (which of course increases the damage per SrS, but doesn't affect the dps of SrS).
I would agree that the CS tooltip could mislead people in regards to teh glyph, but since the glyph modifies the spell SrS it seems very natural (at least to my way of thinking with regards to tooltips) that it should not affect anything based on SrS, except when checking whether SrS is up.
Not increasing the SrS damage from CS would make the glyph pretty much worthless for MM. Increasing Srs damage from CS is not that overpowered.
Glyph of SrS increasing duration of SrS by 40% and increasing CS SrS damage component by 40%? That sounds pretty OP for 1 glyph compared to what the other major glyphs do.
For BM/SV the glyph increases SrS duration by 40% and for MM it increases the damage of CS SrS damage by 40%. Due to chimera refreshing it all the time, the duration portion of the glyph is almost entirely useless for MM hunters. The glyph only does ONE of these things really, not both.
Fixing serpent sting to change dynamically with AP is reasonable. Changing Chim-Serp to always assume 15 second serpent is a significant nerf. Raidbuffed, the dps difference between 15s Chim-Serp and 21s Chim-Serp is in the neighborhood of 100 dps. It also makes the glyph completely worthless for marks.
If you think 21s Chim-Serp dps made the glyph OP, a working steady shot glyph for marks pre-SS nerf would have been ~150 dps.
01/15/09, 1:42 PM
