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Old 01/09/09, 6:20 PM   #331
Starwind
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Sebudai View Post
I've been doing the same thing with the spreadsheet. Here's my numbers using best-in-slot gear for each spec:

BM 55/12/4 with a Cat pet: 5435.45 dps
BM 55/12/4 with a Scorpid pet: 5897.78 dps
BM 55/12/4 with a Spirit Beast pet: 5175.59 dps
MM 15/51/5 with a Cat pet: 5681.43 dps
MM 15/51/5 with a Scorpid pet: 6063.89 dps
SV 0/19/52 with a Cat pet: 6514.36 dps
SV 0/19/52 with a Scorpid pet: 6861.31 dps

Cats and Scorpids remain the top dps pets by far. Scorpids just plain need to be nerfed more. If they allow Spirit Strike to crit and fix the Ferocity damage bonus for Spirit Beasts I think they will end up viable(one or the other might be enough.)

I don't have access to the spreadsheet right now. Could someone update or modify this list based on the latest numbers and PTR build?

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Old 01/09/09, 6:23 PM   #332
Sebudai
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Sebudai
Orc Hunter
 
No WoW Account
I will once the spreadsheet is updated with the latest changes from the PTR.

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Old 01/10/09, 3:12 AM   #333
ankah
Piston Honda
 
Orc Hunter
 
Eitrigg
Originally Posted by Sebudai View Post
I will once the spreadsheet is updated with the latest changes from the PTR.
Eager to see the results myself, with the change to ES, and the downsizing and then upsizing of rake and poison. The Spread sheet has some issues right now, from call of wild, to haste, to ArP (in my opinion), but the author is working hard on it.

I started making a list of what I thought needed fixing, and it really hit me what an undertaking it is to keep the spread sheet up and running, I don't think we thank those involved enough.

Interesting to see how a MM's damage will go up with the new version of arcane (lees viper time) in addition to a working SS glyph. Same goes for BM and the extra 9% to arcane...Just hope Uldar does not have any arcane immune bosses.

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Old 01/10/09, 5:50 AM   #334
Xafice
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Blackrock (EU)
Guess I missed the information somewhere in this thread, but as of yesterday's testing (finally moved my hunter to the german PTR) laid-down traps within the 6 seconds difference of Resourcefulness didn't trigger LnL. So this talent should be fairly unnecessary, since Mana isn't really an issue for survival, or at least not worth it's 3 points.
Feel free to poke if that was already discussed.

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Old 01/10/09, 6:39 AM   #335
michaeldtt
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Shattered Hand (EU)
I Looked around but didn't find anything about the changes to Viper Sting so I was wondering if anyone had tested the PTR version out yet. Specifically referring to it's use with Chimera Shot. Does viper sting work on Raid bosses which have mana bars, and if so, does this mean that since the new sting is % based, that a Viper Sting -> Chimera Shot will effectively fill up your mana bar (assuming a boss with 6 figure mana)? Or have blizz already prevented this?

As BM I never had mana problems in raids due to all the buffs, but I find myself running low much quicker in MM. If this were to work then on bosses with a mana bar this would remove the need to switch to AotV completely.

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Old 01/10/09, 7:27 AM   #336
ligghtpro
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Whisperwind
Viper drains 16% of your target's mana pool, but it's capped at 32% of your mana pool, so you won't get massive drains on bosses. Essentially, the most mana you'll ever get back from Chimera will be 19.2% of your maximum mana.

Also, since I haven't seen it mentioned specifically, the 30 second cooldown on LNL does apply to and is shared by both trap and sting procs. I went to the IF training dummies on test and put serpent on all 7 dummies (Gives me a 42% chance per 3 seconds to proc) and never got any procs within 30 seconds of each other. Likewise, if I used a trap to trigger the proc, I wouldn't get any sting-based procs before the trap had cooled down.

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Old 01/11/09, 1:12 PM   #337
Sebudai
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Sebudai
Orc Hunter
 
No WoW Account
BM 53/11/7 (Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft)
Devilsaur: 5355.27 DPS
Cat: 5214.19 DPS
Chimera: 5065.86 DPS
Core Hound: 5264.45 DPS
Raptor: 5326.79 DPS
Scorpid: 4820.13 DPS
Spirit Beast: 5247.65 DPS
Wasp: 5222.93 DPS

MM 11/53/7 (Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft)
Cat: 5512.30 DPS
Raptor: 5508.88 DPS
Scorpid: 5328.82 DPS
Wasp: 5475.08 DPS
Wind Serpent: 5408.27 DPS

SV 1/18/52 (Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft)
Cat: 6078.05 DPS
Raptor: 6072.40 DPS
Scorpid: 5869.25 DPS
Wasp: 6034.44 DPS
Wind Serpent: 5950.95 DPS
-----

BM uses Glyph of Steady Shot, Serpent Sting, and Bestial Wrath. MM and SV use Glyph of Steady Shot, Serpent Sting, and Aspect of the Hawk. All of these numbers are with what I feel is best-in-slot gear for each spec. It should also be noted that I don't believe the spreadsheet has been updated with the very newest numbers for Cats and Spirit Beasts(Cats were buffed slightly and Spirit Beasts were nerfed slightly.)

Hopefully these are helpful. If you guys would like me to adjust anything let me know.

(I apologize if this post belongs in a different thread)

Last edited by Sebudai : 01/11/09 at 5:37 PM. Reason: Linked the wrong SV spec - Updated numbers

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Old 01/11/09, 2:13 PM   #338
Kerbaroth
Banned
 
Dwarf Shaman
 
Gilneas (EU)
Sorry, wrong thread, please delte this.

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Old 01/11/09, 4:41 PM   #339
Starwind
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Sebudai View Post
BM 53/11/7 (Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft)
Devilsaur: 5355.27 DPS
Cat: 5214.19 DPS
Chimera: 5065.86 DPS
Core Hound: 5264.45 DPS
Raptor: 5326.79 DPS
Scorpid: 4820.13 DPS
Spirit Beast: 5247.65 DPS
Wasp: 5222.93 DPS

MM 11/53/7 (Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft)
Cat: 5512.30 DPS
Raptor: 5508.88 DPS
Scorpid: 5328.82 DPS
Wasp: 5475.08 DPS
Wind Serpent: 5408.27 DPS

SV 4/15/52 (Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft)
Cat: 6065.25 DPS
Raptor: 6059.59 DPS
Scorpid: 5856.43 DPS
Wasp: 6021.64 DPS
Wind Serpent: 5938.13 DPS
-----

BM uses Glyph of Steady Shot, Serpent Sting, and Bestial Wrath. MM and SV use Glyph of Steady Shot, Serpent Sting, and Aspect of the Hawk. All of these numbers are with what I feel is best-in-slot gear for each spec. It should also be noted that I don't believe the spreadsheet has been updated with the very newest numbers for Cats and Spirit Beasts(Cats were buffed slightly and Spirit Beasts were nerfed slightly.)

Hopefully these are helpful. If you guys would like me to adjust anything let me know.

(I apologize if this post belongs in a different thread)
Based on your 4/15/52 spec including HE and ST I'm assuming that your SV numbers do not include trap dancing. Is this correct?

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Old 01/11/09, 4:49 PM   #340
Sebudai
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Sebudai
Orc Hunter
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Starwind View Post
Based on your 4/15/52 spec including HE and ST I'm assuming that your SV numbers do not include trap dancing. Is this correct?
Yeah, that is correct. The spreadsheet doesn't account for trap dancing, so I used a non-trap dancing spec.

Note: I linked the wrong spec/numbers for SV initially. I was using an outdated spec based on when Serpent Sting didn't benefit from Improved Tracking. I've updated that post with the correct spec and numbers for each pet.

Last edited by Sebudai : 01/11/09 at 5:43 PM.

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Old 01/11/09, 5:35 PM   #341
Fammaden
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Ysera
Were you at the haste softcap in SV/MM?

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Old 01/11/09, 5:41 PM   #342
Sebudai
Soda Popinski
 
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Sebudai
Orc Hunter
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Fammaden View Post
Were you at the haste softcap in SV/MM?
Yes.

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Old 01/11/09, 10:09 PM   #343
Neruse
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Sargeras
My fixed numbers (best in slot, 6 minute fight, KS enabled, 100% replenishment uptime):

BM (53/11/7) AP: 6114 Crit: 42.82%
Devilsaur (5509)
Raptor (5480)
Corehound (5416)
Spirit Beast (5399)
Wasp (5376)
Cat (5367)
Chimera (5191)
Windserpent (5159)

SV (2/18/51) AP: 6803 Crit: 55.00%
Cat (6360)
Raptor (6355)
Wasp (6318)
Windserpent (6221)

MM (15/51/5) AP: 6217 Crit: 48.63%
Cat (5745)
Raptor (5742)
Wasp (5705)
Windserpent (5618)

Cats and raptors are in dead heat for non-BM and raptors for BM pull ahead due to significantly higher uptime on Savage Rend. What is surprising is wasps nudging ahead of cats as BM.

Last edited by Neruse : 01/12/09 at 4:15 PM.

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Old 01/12/09, 5:45 AM   #344
ankah
Piston Honda
 
Orc Hunter
 
Eitrigg
Hi. I just did something similar, with the same talent build for MM, and tried to figure in how Roar of Recovery would factor in.

With the same principle as the best gear per slot (although I used the sheet's scale for it), and getting hit capped, I came to different numbers but similar results, as far as rankings.

With that in mind, I noticed how my viper time on a 6 minutes fight would be around 20 seconds. That is on a fully buffed raid environment, so roar of recovery was able to keep it at 100% hawk uptime.

My total dps did favor the wind serpent over the cat, but by only 3 dps, for only 1080 total damage during that same time span. The difference is a tad greater if you do not have a minor debuffer in the raid, and use a spore bat(i changed the viper settings from OOM to always on to figure out the difference - if I did this incorrectly, some one please point it out, so I can change it around), now the sheet does not calculate the damage from the actual cloud, so I would the total difference around 50dps when using a spore bat over a cat and no minor debuffer present in the raid.

While the dps difference between them is minimal, the spore bat would bring more benefit for the whole raid as well (it would be a very good pet for 10 mans, since its rare to have a minor debuff up at all times). With that being said, I can not determine the benefit of having a ferocity pet for attack power stacking with Call of the Wild for serpent sting/chimera, but my feeling is that it would be much greater than 50dps.

In conclusion, for me at least, Cunning pets became a bit more attractive, but only under the right circumstances. Roar of recovery still feels underwhelming, and its certainly not enough to close the current gap between MM and SV (my very brief SV test yielded similar results, a difference of about 8% in favor of SV, with a cat)

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Old 01/12/09, 12:13 PM   #345
Fierra
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Fenris
Originally Posted by Jaffi View Post
Well, there is still a gap of ~100 dps between those pets (Spirit Beast and Devilsaur). I hope this won't be the case once the patch hits live, however I am afraid it will. Would be disappointing somehow, since a lot of us spend much time in finding and taming this pet.
Keep in mind, however, that with the Devilsaur's increased hitbox size comes a more limited life-span during some boss fights, where the small spirit beast might be able to put out its dps for longer periods on those more pet-tough fights. In such an instance, a Spirit Beast could well outperform a Devilsaur that gets hit by AOEs early on.

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