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Old 01/07/09, 4:03 PM   #31
TrevvyTrev
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Gilneas
Originally Posted by SilentSnake578 View Post
Big hint here.

Since I didn't see it (and it wasn't even MENTIONED, even as "this gem cut is shit never use it") I asked a question about it.

Stop trolling here and drop it.

Aren't forums a place for discussion and questions? If not it would be a guide (or at least locked to prevent questions and such).

Edit:
Spirit gems aren't mentioned here either, and that doesn't mean they are worth asking about. The first post says that it is a list of gems you should prioritize. It pretty clearly lays out what it is intended to do, and what was not considered at all (i.e., intellect gems). Anything that is not on the list adds less dps than something that is on the list, as per the spreadsheet, with the exception of INT gems and their variations. So even if you don't know how to use the spreadsheet, the first post summarizes what you would get from it if you did.

Obviously there are reasons to use armor pen gems (like if you literally had no other option available), but for a list that purports to give the best option for each slot, you won't see mention of things like that.

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Old 01/08/09, 1:27 PM   #32
RDarkfire
Glass Joe
 
Troll Hunter
 
Anub'arak
worth sacrificing AGI gems to get to haste softcap?

Originally Posted by Æthien View Post
at rougly 5% haste you'll be able to fit 5 steadies in between chimera shots, and until you are fully hastecapped that gives better dps than delaying chimera for an extra steadyshot.

(that is, if I'm not mistaken, I haven't been MM since well before 3.0)
Curious, I wonder if it is worth using quick/deft gems in order to reach the haste softcap of 523 haste rating, and/or eat haste-food instead of AGI food while you are still under that value?

From a sheer DPS perspective, in MM spec using Wild Quiver which would theoretically scale off of your autoshot speed, what wins?

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Old 01/08/09, 5:02 PM   #33
Æthien
Piston Honda
 
Æthien's Avatar
 
Orc Hunter
 
Kazzak (EU)
That you would have to check for yourself on the spreadsheet I'm afraid.
As I haven't been MM for a long time (or SV for that matter), I really have no hands on experience with not having steady shots at 1.5 seconds.

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Old 01/09/09, 6:59 AM   #34
King-Slide
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Aegwynn (EU)
That isn't easy atm. There are some problems with the calculation of the haste cap in the SS.

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Old 01/21/09, 12:27 PM   #35
Faerdael
Piston Honda
 
Faerdael's Avatar
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Gilneas
I've revised the original post to reflect 3.0.8 changes. Red priorities remain unchanged; in other words, AP for BM, Agility for Surv and varying results for MM (ie. use the spreadsheet!). Pretty much the only significant change is haste. Previously haste was showing probably the best yellow damage stat for MM/Surv until you had 1.5s steadies.

If you had to choose between haste and crit, what would you go with. I've been strictly viewing this specific issue at a spreadsheet level (no live testing), but it seems that crit always wins over equal values of haste now. The way I approached this was by using DPS results on paper via the "Use Rotation Test results instead of frequencies" option, which seems to be a more fair assesment of the "fit more steadies in-between chimera/ExS" pro-haste position.

Starting from 0 haste and 0 haste buffs and no IAoTH procs (Rotation Test doesn't include procs), Haste loses to Crit by a fairly wide margin now in a Standard rotation: ExS>Kill Shot>Serpent>Rapid Fire>Aimed>Steady (Surv) / Chimera>Kill Shot>Serpent>Rapid Fire>Readiness>Arcane >Aimed>Steady (MM).

The difference between crit and haste, of course, decreases as you decrease the number of instants. The breaking point for me seemed to be at flat Chimera>Steady (which no one should be limited to using now); at that point haste was ahead but as soon as you added Rapid Fire (or an IAoTH proc, presumably), Crit was back on top.

All in all, I was seeing an average of (very)roughly .4 dps increase per point of crit rating, vs .25 dps increase per point of haste rating in my existing gear (minus my haste rating) unbuffed. That was about as pro-haste a setup as I could get, and crit was the pretty clear winner. That being said, I've gone ahead and taken haste gems off of the original post. Anything I've looked at for haste right now has been stictly on paper, so if anyone comes up with any counter, by all means call me out.

As a couple of side notes, I've personally used this list several times as a reference when working with the spreadsheet and part of me wants to keep those there for reference (scrolling through a combo box for 10 minutes to find the gem I was looking for was my primary inspiration here), although some people may get the idea that they should actually use those gems. If you think we should leave those cuts on the list for reference, send me a pm or something, otherwise haste is out. Also, do we have a [Shifting Twilight Opal] in-game yet?

Last edited by Faerdael : 01/21/09 at 12:32 PM.

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Old 01/21/09, 1:08 PM   #36
lumadar
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Hunter
 
The Forgotten Coast
For a SV hunter under hit cap would [Glinting Monarch Topaz] be a better call than the [Rigid Autumn's Glow] ?

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Old 01/21/09, 1:30 PM   #37
Fierra
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Fenris
Originally Posted by lumadar View Post
For a SV hunter under hit cap would [Glinting Monarch Topaz] be a better call than the [Rigid Autumn's Glow] ?
That depends on your spec, how under the hit cap you are, your crit, and a variety of other factors. For best results, compare relative dps on the hunter spreadsheet available for download here in the hunter forums.

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Old 01/21/09, 2:33 PM   #38
Faerdael
Piston Honda
 
Faerdael's Avatar
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Gilneas
Originally Posted by lumadar View Post
For a SV hunter under hit cap would [Glinting Monarch Topaz] be a better call than the [Rigid Autumn's Glow] ?
Both are included here. The Glinting is listed under the orange gems. Like Fierra says, the spreadsheet will give you more detailed answers, but I'll say a couple of things.

Applicable hit rating will (always)give you better results than Agility. Otherwise we would say a Glinting is outright better than a Rigid, but then we would also have to say that a Delicate is outright better than a Glinting, and that all Survival hunters should carpet gem all Delicates (+enchanted tear for the meta), which isnt the case (at least not since raid wide expose weakness left town). This is in fact how I am gemmed at the moment, but only because I am hit capped

If you are 14-15 hit rating short, a Rigid will give you a better number on average than a glinting; its probably even better at 12-13 hit rating short due to the way pet hit % rounds down to the next lowest whole number (even as survival).

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Old 01/23/09, 4:34 PM   #39
Iroared
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Monk
 
Черный Шрам (EU)
I always wondered if its really a good idea to put +16 agi gems in all slots (after activating meta and reaching hit cap). Let's say you have a yellow slot, and instead of using +16 agi you put +8 agi/+8 crit there. The difference is small and by putting in a correct gem you get socket bonus, which easily covers the difference.
But what should I do with blue slots?

Also, stupid question, if meta requires a blue and a yellow gem, can I satisfy both requirements by using a single green gem?

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Old 01/23/09, 4:58 PM   #40
Zeel
Von Kaiser
 
Zeel's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Vek'nilash (EU)
Originally Posted by Iroared View Post

Also, stupid question, if meta requires a blue and a yellow gem, can I satisfy both requirements by using a single green gem?
yes you can

edit: I suppose you also noticed [Enchanted Tear] that might solve many problems with a single gem

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Old 01/30/09, 5:21 PM   #41
Asarra
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Silvermoon
Originally Posted by Faerdael View Post
(*if severely under hit cap.)
This comment implies that reaching the hit cap is a goal, when it is not. It depends on your gear and spec. The agility or AP gems may be a better choice than the hit gems.

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Old 01/31/09, 12:28 AM   #42
Vitaro
Von Kaiser
 
Vitaro's Avatar
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Stormrage (EU)
Originally Posted by Asarra View Post
This comment implies that reaching the hit cap is a goal, when it is not. It depends on your gear and spec. The agility or AP gems may be a better choice than the hit gems.
I don't understand. Reaching hit cap is probably the very first goal a raiding hunter should have when juggling stats. If you mean to say that there are better ways to reach said hit-cap (through gear and spec) then you are at only partially right. Your most true statement is that it depends on your gear - but gemming is the no. 1 way to compensate for lacking hit from it.

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Old 02/01/09, 6:08 PM   #43
zápdos
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Magtheridon (EU)
Actually if you use maxdps correctly you'll find that it gives all the correct choices. UNBUFFED the best choice of gem is ArP - however if you go to the 'buffs' tab (near your stats) you can enable them all and all the items there are correct for raids. You'll notice that ArP is less useful according to the spreadsheets there

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Old 02/02/09, 12:12 AM   #44
Garby
Von Kaiser
 
Garby's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mug'thol
Originally Posted by zápdos View Post
Actually if you use maxdps correctly you'll find that it gives all the correct choices. UNBUFFED the best choice of gem is ArP
Not according to Shandara's. I loaded my character, stripped all buffs, and then traded the [Bright Scarlet Ruby] in my shoulders for a [Fractured Scarlet Ruby], to the tune of a 4 dps loss.

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Old 02/10/09, 12:41 PM   #45
Asarra
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Silvermoon
Originally Posted by Vitaro View Post
I don't understand. Reaching hit cap is probably the very first goal a raiding hunter should have when juggling stats. If you mean to say that there are better ways to reach said hit-cap (through gear and spec) then you are at only partially right. Your most true statement is that it depends on your gear - but gemming is the no. 1 way to compensate for lacking hit from it.
In my situation, 1 Hit Rating is worth .417 dps, while 1 AP is worth .231 dps (according to Shandra's spreadsheet and assuming I'm not making a mistake). Therefore, Rigid Autumn's Glow is worth 6.7 dps and Bright Scarlet Ruby is worth 7.4 dps. I should choose the AP gem since my goal is to maximize dps.

Note: the dps values vary greatly depending on buffs, but in all cases the AP gem is better for me. Also note: the socket bonus sometimes makes a difference.


Edit: I played around with my hit rating and found that the value of additional hit rating becomes less as it approaches the cap. With my hit rating around 100 the two gems have about the same dps value, but at higher ratings the AP gem has a higher dps.

Last edited by Asarra : 02/10/09 at 4:00 PM.

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