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01/18/09, 11:39 AM
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#1
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Hunter
Ysera (EU)
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Best Possible DPS in Shandaras WotLK Spreadsheet
Seeing as the gearlist posts seem to pop up a lot in diffrent threads lately I guess it´s about time I started a new "Best Possible DPS"-thread here. As with the old thread the aim of this one is to find out which combination of gear/talents/pets/rotations etc. yields the highes theoretical DPS in the latest Spreadsheet. In order to keep the results comparable it´s required to agree on one set of frame conditions. I will try to set those initially to something I deem realistic for an - reasonably minmaxing - 25 ppl progress raid (which essentially means you get every buff available). I am open for suggestions though.
Fixed Values:
| Buffs: | | | | | | | | | | | | | Hunter Buffs | | | | Pet Buffs | | | | Target Debuffs | | | | | Greater Blessing of Kings | Yes | | | Greater Blessing of Kings | Yes | | | Judgement of Wisdom | Yes | | | | Greater Blessing of Might | Rank 5 | Improved 2/2 | | Commanding Shout | No | | | Heart of the Crusader | Yes | Improved 3/3 | | | Battle Shout | No | | | Greater Blessing of Might | Rank 5 | Improved 2/2 | | Curse of Elements | Rank 6 | | | | Commanding Shout | No | | | Battle Shout | No | | | Sunder Armor Stacks | Yes | 5 | | | Greater Blessing of Wisdom | Rank 5 | Improved 2/2 | | True Shot Aura (not you) | Yes | | | Curse of Recklessness | No | | | | True Shot Aura (not you) | Yes | | | Leader of the Pack/Rampage | Yes | | | Hunter's Mark (not you) | Yes | Both | | | Leader of the Pack/Rampage | Yes | | | Strength of Earth Totem | Rank 8 | Enhanced 3/3 | | Mangle/Trauma | Yes | 100% | | | Arcane Brilliance | Rank 3 | | | Horn of Winter | No | | | Blood Frenzy/Savage Combat | Yes | 100% | | | Fel Intelligence | No | | | Gift of the Wild | Rank 4 | Improved 2/2 | | Earth and Moon stacks | Yes | | | | Mana Spring Totem | No | | | Prayer of Fortitude | Rank 4 | Improved 2/2 | | Faerie Fire | Yes | | | | Horn of Winter | No | | | Blood Pact | No | | | | | | | | Strength of Earth | Rank 8 | Enhanced 3/3 | | Windfury Totem | Yes | Improved 2/2 | | | | | | | Gift of the Wild | Rank 4 | Improved 2/2 | | Abomination's Might/Unl Rage | No | | | | | | | | Prayer of Fortitude | Rank 4 | Improved 2/2 | | Swift Retribution | Yes | Rank 3/3 | | | | | | | Blood Pact | No | | | Ret. Aura & Feroc. Insp. | Yes | | | | | | | | Swift Retribution | Yes | Rank 3/3 | | Draenei Racial (not you) | Yes | | | | | | | | Ret. Aura & Feroc. Insp. | Yes | | | | | | | | | | | | Replenishment (Uptime) | Yes | 100% | | | | | | | | | | | Abomination's Might/Unl Rage | No | | | | | | | | | | | | Draenei Racial (not you) | Yes | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Latency: | | | | | | | | | | | | | 150ms | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Rotation Test | | | | | | | | | | | | | Fight Length 360 sec | | | | | | | | | | | |
(The above should be equal to turning everything on and to the highest rank and uptime)
Values to optimize:
| Glyphs | | Professions | | Gear | | Talents | | Buff consumables | | Shot rotations | | Max time to wait for CDs | | Pets/Pet talents/Pet rotations |
Everything not mentioned here should stay at default values as they are when downloaded (eg. Armor - 10645).
I will try to keep track of what currently is the best template for each spec according to the posts in this thread and post the numbers here if I can validate them with my own version of the spreadsheet.
Spreadsheet Version used: 92a
Best BM Template:
Total DPS: 9764,52
Hunter DPS: 5954,42
Pet DPS: 3810,10
AP: 9889
Crit: 60,03%
Hit: 100,00%
ArP: 566
Shot Queue: KS/Sp/MS/AS/SS
Wait Delay: 0,00s
Spec: 54/12/5
Race: Orc
Pet: Devilsaur
Best MM Template:
Total DPS: 10862,97
Hunter DPS: 9663,69
Pet DPS: 1199,29
AP: 8941
Crit: 61,25%
Hit: 100,00%
ArP: 1308
Shot Queue: Sp/SilS/AiS/CS/KS/SS
Wait Delay: 0,60s
Spec: 7/57/7
Race: Orc
Pet: Wolf
Best SV Template:
Total DPS: 10523,90
Hunter DPS: 9064,63
Pet DPS: 1459,26
AP: 11708
Crit: 76,11%
Hit: 100,00%
ArP: 611
Shot Queue: KS/ES/BA/Sp/AiS/SS
Wait Delay: 0,00s
Spec: 2/18/51
Race: Orc
Pet: Wolf
Download of the current Best-DPS Spreadsheet:
RapidShare: Easy Filehosting
Method of reporting better templates:
If you´ve found a template that yields more DPS than any of the above you can report it in any of the following ways
a) Give a full description of anything that´s not a fixed value as per this post (glyphs, gear, talents, used buff consumables etc.).
b) Download the spreadsheet linked above and explain precisely what you changed
c) Posting/sending me an exported gear string from the spreadsheet. This is also very helpful in addition to any of the above methods.
d) Download the spreadsheet, make the changes, upload it somewhere and give me the link to it
If the changes ain´t submitted in any of those ways or if important parts are omitted I can´t and won´t include it here.
--------------------------------
14.08.2009
- update to v91b
- new templates for all specs
16.08.2009
- replaced Dark Matter with Mjolnir in the best MM spec
19.08.2009
- update to v91c
- changes to all templates
20.08.2009
- update to v91d
- update to all templates
01.09.2009
- update to v91f
13.10.2009
- update to v92a
- update to all three specs (mostly MM though)
Last edited by Midnight : 10/13/09 at 10:26 AM.
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FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
The optimism of action is better than the pessimism of thought.
- Greenpeace UK
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01/18/09, 1:32 PM
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#2
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Hunter
Kil'Jaeden
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Great to see this thread starting again. A few comments:
- I would suggest simplifying the list of acceptable buffs to the following: all available buffs & debuffs at max rank. The spreadsheet already accounts for overlapping buffs (e.g. R5 Might vs R9 Battleshout, TSA vs Unleashed Rage) so it is much simpler to say "all possible buffs" than expect people to carefully transcribe your table to their spreadsheet, and deal with the errors that introduces
- Your suggested list of buffs omits important, easily available buffs such as mana spring totem - once again, for simplicity (& IMHO, accuracy/relevance) I would suggest turning them all on. Yes, this assumes some group composition - but this is a min-maxer setup, suitable for people willing to reroll professions (or maybe even race!), so should reflect the maximum possible.
- Why adjust target type to "Undead" from the default? It has no effect on reported DPS even with Improved Tracking (which is already factored in), so I'd suggest leaving all settings at default for simplicity.
- "Range to Target" doesn't need to be on the list of things to optimize - v82 of spreadsheet defaults to "30+ yards" which assumes Sniper Training is active if you have the talent.
- The Draenei racial should definitely be allowed, as long as you aren't using a Horde toon. That 1% hit is very significant in determining what gear combinations turn out to be truly best-in-slot.
- Race has to be on the list of parameters you can optimize. Just as with the TBC thread I expect a clear leader will emerge, but people should be able to see if there is anything that can beat Dwarf...
From the Marksman thread, here's the proposal I made on guidelines for what is allowed:
Originally Posted by Vaxum
- Assume the presence of all available raid buffs & boss debuffs - everything on, max rank, all the time.
- Allow any race, but if you choose Horde you must turn off Heroic Presence for both hunter & pet
- Allow any food/elixir/flask buff for hunter & pet, but require people to state what they used
- Allow any pair of professions, but require people to state what they used
- Allow any hunter talent spec, but require people to state what they used
- Allow any major & minor glyphs, but require people to state what they used
- Allow any shot rotation priority, but require people to state what they used
- Allow any pet choice & talent spec, but require people to state what they used
- Allow any pet ability priority, but require people to state what they used
- Assume default values for all properties on the Settings tab
- Allow any gear & enchants currently available in game
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Last edited by Vaxum : 01/18/09 at 2:05 PM.
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01/18/09, 1:49 PM
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#3
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Hunter
Kil'Jaeden
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SV Alliance max-possible-DPS setup
Last edited by Vaxum : 01/27/09 at 6:01 PM.
Reason: adjusted for 100% replenishment, 3/3 swift retribution
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01/18/09, 1:52 PM
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#4
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Hunter
Kil'Jaeden
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MM Alliance max-possible-DPS setup
Last edited by Vaxum : 01/25/09 at 10:24 PM.
Reason: updated buff profiles (Heroic Presence, MST, 100% Replenishment, 3/3 swift retribution)
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01/18/09, 2:07 PM
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#5
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Vaxum
- Why adjust target type to "Undead" from the default? It has no effect on reported DPS even with Improved Tracking (which is already factored in), so I'd suggest leaving all settings at default for simplicity.
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Because "Scourgebane" is the highest AP enchant available and it only works against undead. I'm assuming the spreadsheet models this, but if it doesn't it's probably a bug. Using "undead" catches it if the sheet does make that check, and if it doesn't check then it won't matter either way.
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01/18/09, 4:10 PM
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#6
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Glass Joe
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You can actually model blacksmithing with the spreadsheet, you just can't model putting JC gems in those slots. If you click where it says none where a socket would be, you can type in what gem you want, and it will add the stat. For some reason though, it won't let you add Delicate Dragon's Eye, you can however add Delicate Scarlet Ruby.
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01/18/09, 5:08 PM
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#7
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Hunter
Sargeras
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Also, aimed shot shares a cooldown with multishot, but the spreadsheet doesn't know that.
Vaxum needs to tweak shot rotation a bit. >.>
Last edited by Neruse : 01/18/09 at 5:32 PM.
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01/18/09, 5:51 PM
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#8
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Hunter
Sargeras
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Last edited by Neruse : 01/19/09 at 10:30 PM.
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01/18/09, 6:20 PM
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#9
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Piston Honda
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I'll be updating my post here with whatever I currently have in my BiS sheet at the time; I tinker with it a lot. I'll list only the highest DPS spec at the time, within reason. I will try to keep my settings as realistically as possible; using Aimed Shot in a Survival Rotation for example is a very minuscule DPS increase (less than 20dps in the current sheet) but a huge complication and potential mana drain. My talent selection will be reasonable as well, IE: not dropping FI for 4dps from Frenzy; not Dropping Hunting Party for 10dps, ect.
| Orc Hunter DPS - Survival - v.82 | | | | DPS: 6624.67 | | - Hunter: 5445.36 | | - Pet: 1179.31 | | | | Spec: 6/14/51 (Link) | | | | Race: Orc | | | | Glyphs: | | - Major: [Glyph of Steady Shot], [Glyph of Serpent Sting], | 21:11:51 called in wowhead_item::start:324 Item not found! | | - Minor: [Glyph of Feign Death], [Glyph of Mend Pet], [Glyph of Revive Pet] | | | | Professions: [Jewelcrafting], [Leatherworking] | | | | Consumables: [Blackened Dragonfin], [Elixir of Mighty Agility], [Elixir of Mighty Thoughts], [Spiced Mammoth Treats] | | | | Rotation: [Blood Fury] -> [Rapid Fire] -> [Serpent Sting] -> [Kill Shot] -> [Explosive Shot] -> [Steady Shot] | | | | Pet: Raptor | | - Pet Spec: Wowhead Link | | - Pet Rotation: [Savage Rend] -> [Claw] | | | | Gear: | | - Main Hand: [Journey's End] + [Massacre] | | - Off Hand: None | | - Head: [Blue Aspect Helm] + [Arcanum of Torment], [Relentless Earthsiege Diamond], [Rigid Autumn's Glow] | | - Neck: [Favor of the Dragon Queen] + [Delicate Dragon's Eye] | | - Shoulders: [Valorous Cryptstalker Spaulders] + [Greater Inscription of the Axe], [Delicate Scarlet Ruby] | | - Back: [Drape of the Deadly Foe] + [Major Agility] | | - Chest: [Valorous Cryptstalker Tunic] + [Powerful Stats], [Delicate Scarlet Ruby], [Delicate Dragon's Eye] | | - Wrist: [Slime Stream Bands] + [Fur Lining - Attack Power], [Delicate Scarlet Ruby] | | - Hands: [Frosted Adroit Handguards] + [Major Agility] | | - Waist: [Torn Web Wrapping] + [Eternal Belt Buckle], [Delicate Scarlet Ruby] | | - Legs: [Leggings of Failed Escape] + [Icescale Leg Armor], [Delicate Scarlet Ruby], [Delicate Dragon's Eye] | | - Feet: [Boots of the Renewed Flight] + [Icewalker] | | - Ring: [Surge Needle Ring] | | - Ring: [Strong-Handed Ring] | | - Trinket: [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] | | - Trinket: [Fury of the Five Flights] | | - Ranged Weapon: [Envoy of Mortality] + [Heartseeker Scope] | | - Quiver: [Nerubian Reinforced Quiver] | | - Ammo: [Mammoth Cutters] |
Last edited by Rokh : 01/18/09 at 9:36 PM.
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01/18/09, 6:24 PM
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#10
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Hunter
Sargeras
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Last edited by Neruse : 01/19/09 at 10:27 PM.
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01/18/09, 7:02 PM
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#11
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Hunter
Eredar (EU)
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Good thread, but strange buff profile, anyway...
(not very common)
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01/18/09, 7:29 PM
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#12
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Pootch
Good thread, but strange buff profile, anyway...
(not very common)
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The only two things in that buff profile that affect DPS is the lack of Mana Spring Totem, which Hunter's don't get often anyway (3+ Shaman would be needed), and the 50% uptime on Replenishment, which is the sheets default. The buff profile is fine.
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01/18/09, 7:36 PM
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#13
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Hunter
Ravencrest
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Been waiting for this thread, thanks a bunch for starting it... just a a quick question,
Is the Might Agility + Mighty thoughts combo better than Flask of RA simply because of the increased mana pool? From my "Pawn" values 45 Agi + 45 Atk power (from the Int) by itself isn't better than 180 Atk power.
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01/18/09, 8:16 PM
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#14
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Piston Honda
Blood Elf Hunter
Argent Dawn (EU)
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Originally Posted by Rokh
The only two things in that buff profile that affect DPS is the lack of Mana Spring Totem, which Hunter's don't get often anyway (3+ Shaman would be needed), and the 50% uptime on Replenishment, which is the sheets default. The buff profile is fine.
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Isn't MST raidwide now?
I might have to look at group composition a bit more tomorrow, but usually hunters have MST as we are quite blessed with shaman 
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01/18/09, 8:28 PM
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#15
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Hunter
Sargeras
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Originally Posted by DanluvsKelly
Been waiting for this thread, thanks a bunch for starting it... just a a quick question,
Is the Might Agility + Mighty thoughts combo better than Flask of RA simply because of the increased mana pool? From my "Pawn" values 45 Agi + 45 Atk power (from the Int) by itself isn't better than 180 Atk power.
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It's better by about 5-10 dps because it increases mana regen and time to OOM.
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01/18/09, 8:35 PM
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#16
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Hunter
Ravencrest
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Originally Posted by Neruse
It's better by about 5-10 dps because it increases mana regen and time to OOM.
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Hmm if that's the case, then being an Alchemist and having the Mixology benefits would only further increase the dps gain correct?
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01/18/09, 9:32 PM
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#17
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Nooska
Isn't MST raidwide now?
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Mana Spring Totem and Mana Tide Totem are party-wide only still unfortunately.
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01/18/09, 9:46 PM
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#18
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Don Flamenco
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It seems to me that most raids nowadays run with at least one Draenei and I'd like to put their buff, Draenei Presence, forward to be used by both the Hunter and the Pet for this exercise. To my understanding, the buff is Raid wide and should, therefore, be available.
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01/18/09, 10:01 PM
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#19
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Glass Joe
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It seems to me that most raids nowadays run with at least one Draenei and I'd like to put their buff, Draenei Presence, forward to be used by both the Hunter and the Pet for this exercise. To my understanding, the buff is Raid wide and should, therefore, be available.
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But you have to remember, some people do play Horde. Though the fact does really turn into an "are you Alliance, or are you Horde?" kind of thing. It'd be interesting to see if any of these items that are best in slot with hit would change. Don't have access to Excel right now so I can't tell myself.
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01/18/09, 10:10 PM
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#20
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Don Flamenco
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Ah right, totally forgot about Horde missing this buff. Better go get some coffee.
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01/18/09, 10:50 PM
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#21
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Hunter
Kil'Jaeden
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The point of this thread back in TBC was "what is the true theoretical maximum?". Even though not everyone could hit the maximum based on their current race, professions, raid composition or gear, it was still interesting as a (somewhat theoretical) exercise.
I think that saying "no, you can't look for a solution with Draenei aura" because not everyone is Alliance is akin to saying "no, you can't look for a solution that requires Orc/Dwarf/etc", "no, you can't look for a solution that require these 2 professions" or "no, you can't assume access to these raid buffs" because not everyone already has the right race, professions & raid makeup. People re-roll all the time, and knowing the theoretical limit can be useful.
Lots of folk have pointed out that the spreadsheet is not a 100% model of reality. It isn't. But it is enough of a controlled system that looking for a true "best" within it is interesting, and anything it models should be fair game.
Personally, I'll play the game in this thread, the way the majority decides - but I would prefer/recommend that we let people twiddle all the knobs & dials in the model and see what they come up with. We might even learn something.
Edit: IMO this thread should be about what it's title says: "Best possible DPS in Shandara's WotLK Spreadsheet", not "A list of good gear to get" - anyone active on these forums should be capable of making their own list. IMO this thread is for collectively finding the absolute theoretical maximum. Today, this is probably Dwarf b/c of 1% crit to guns + 1% hit from Draenei aura. In Ulduar, weapon itemization might change this to Troll for the 1% crit to bows & damage-to-beasts, or Orc for Blood Fury & the pet damage buff. I would prefer the thread use rules that give the freedom to determine the best setup today, and evolve that setup in the future without having to redefine all the baseline rules.
Last edited by Vaxum : 01/19/09 at 1:22 AM.
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01/19/09, 12:00 AM
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#22
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King Hippo
Orc Hunter
Tarren Mill (EU)
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Originally Posted by Vaxum
Personally, I'll play the game in this thread, the way the majority decides - but I would prefer/recommend that we let people twiddle all the knobs & dials in the model and see what they come up with. We might even learn something.
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The problem with accepting Draenei racial to be used is that it definitely rearranges the ranking of items. This thread would essentially become entirely useless if you give people permission to mess with too many things, it needs to be able to be relevant to as many people as possible. Would it be irrelevant for alliance players though if the draenei racial was excluded?
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01/19/09, 12:11 AM
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#23
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Whitemane
Would it be irrelevant for alliance players though if the draenei racial was excluded?
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Truthfully, I would answer Yes, it would be irrelevant for alliance players to exclude the buff. This buff has such a huge impact, as you noted, and it is so common in 25man raids Alliance side. I too believe that this buff should be grouped along with that of Dwarf Gun Specialization and Orc's Racial but that it should be available to all Alliance races.
That said, I'll stick to the buffs outlined in the OP.
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01/19/09, 2:10 AM
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#24
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Piston Honda
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Personally, I think alliance should be able to use heroic presence. It's an easy buff to get and you can't really say you've reached the theoretical maximum disregarding such a big buff. Also, if you are calculating dps with mana spring totem as an alliance, you have to have heroic presence, since you have a shaman in your party. Also, is replenishment uptime really only 50%? In 25man raid, you will probably have 5 ppl that don't use mana, which only requires 2 ppl to provide replenishment for 100% uptime for the entire raid. 2 ret/sp's seem pretty reasonable. This would also make taking hunting party unnecessary. Since we are looking for the theoretical maximum, these seem to be fair assumptions. For now, I'll stick to the buffs in OP and post my setup later. As for shot rotation, I don't think ppl should be using multi-shot. It's a 2 sec cast shot disguised as "instant." Because of its 0.5 sec cast time, it's a terrible shot to use and the spreadsheet doesn't account for it, thus giving dps increase when used, when it actually is doing less dps than steady shot. As for profession, if you want to take blacksmithing, you can just add 32 agility to hand adjust portion in the gear tab.
Another thing to add.
Neruse's setups (both Marks and SV ones) use 4 Dragon's Eyes in Neck, Chest, Wrist, and Legs. It should be ~15 dps lower.
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01/19/09, 2:38 AM
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#25
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Hunter
Stonemaul (EU)
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Survival Layout
v82 spreadsheet: 6809.29 dps (Hunter: 5632.03, Pet: 1177.26).
Race: Orc
Professions: Jewelcrafting + Leatherworking
Spec: 6/14/51
Pet Spec: Raptor
Glyphs: Serpent Sting, IAotH, Steady Shot
Buffs/debuffs: All except Draenei racial.
Consumables: Elixir of Mighty Agility, Elixir of Mighty Thoughts, Blacked Dragonfin, Kibler's Bits
Shot Priority: Rapid Fire > Blood Fury > Serpent Sting > Kill Shot > Explosive Shot > Multi Shot > Steady Shot
Pet Priority: Savage Rend > Claw
Gear:
Melee - [Black Ice][Scroll of Enchant 2H Weapon - Massacre]
Head - [Blue Aspect Helm][Relentless Earthsiege Diamond][Delicate Scarlet Ruby][Arcanum of Torment]
Neck - [Favor of the Dragon Queen][Delicate Dragon's Eye]
Shoulders - [Valorous Cryptstalker Spaulders][Delicate Scarlet Ruby][Greater Inscription of the Axe]
Back - [Drape of the Deadly Foe][Scroll of Enchant Cloak - Major Agility]
Chest - [Chestguard of Flagrant Prowess][Delicate Scarlet Ruby][Delicate Dragon's Eye][Scroll of Enchant Chest - Super Stats]
Wrists - [Slime Stream Bands][Delicate Scarlet Ruby]Fur Lining - Attack Power
Hands - [Valorous Cryptstalker Handguards][Delicate Scarlet Ruby][Scroll of Enchant Gloves - Major Agility]
Waist - [Torn Web Wrapping][Eternal Belt Buckle][Delicate Scarlet Ruby]
Legs - [Leggins of Failed Escape][Delicate Scarlet Ruby][Delicate Dragon's Eye][Icescale Leg Armor]
Feet - [Boots of the Renewed Flight][Scroll of Enchant Boots - Icewalker]
Rings - [Surge Needle Ring][Strong-Handed Ring]
Trinkets - [Fury of the Five Flights]Darkmoon Card: Greatness
Ranged - [Envoy of Mortality][Heartseeker Scope]
Other - [Dragonscale Ammo Pouch][Mammoth Cutters]
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