Best Possible DPS in Shandaras WotLK Spreadsheet - Page 13

sihyunie · 04/23/09, 9:58 PM

It was never important to soft haste cap. Haste was always one of the worst stats for us, but we used them because they just came with gear.

I think until we find some other gear set with less hit, orc will have higher dps because dwarf can't get rid of 28 hit rating over the cap. I do think this is good outline for what gear to shoot for, but as far as spec is concerned, I think having Aimed shot for another instant and hawk eye for extra range has far more practical use due to ulduar encounter designs and the benefits are hard to quantify on spreadsheet or any other models.

I think once the spreadsheet implements all the items like [Drape of the Faceless General], we'll have easier time reconfiguring for 7% hit cap.

GoneHuntin · 04/23/09, 10:57 PM

Does anybody have an alternate download link for the spreadsheet? Rapidshare refuses to work with my IP. It always says I am "Already Downloading from this IP"

Beachwanderer · 04/24/09, 12:45 PM

I have been very active in the survival thread and the top dps we are seeing is from 0/18/53 and 3/15/53 dropping points from Trap Mastery to Hawk Eye and the 2 points in Hunting Party, 1 point in TotH to either Imp. Stings or Imp AotH. While I'm not asking the spreadsheets be modeled without Trap Mastery, I would like to see them modeled without Hunting Party/TotH. Not only will this settle a debate in the survival thread of Imp AotH vs Imp stings, but we may see higher max dps numbers in this thread.

thesmoosh · 04/24/09, 5:25 PM

Originally Posted by GoneHuntin

Does anybody have an alternate download link for the spreadsheet? Rapidshare refuses to work with my IP. It always says I am "Already Downloading from this IP"

I have the same issue, so any solution would be greatly appreciated.

alienangel · 04/24/09, 7:06 PM

Originally Posted by Beachwanderer

I have been very active in the survival thread and the top dps we are seeing is from 0/18/53 and 3/15/53 dropping points from Trap Mastery to Hawk Eye and the 2 points in Hunting Party, 1 point in TotH to either Imp. Stings or Imp AotH. While I'm not asking the spreadsheets be modeled without Trap Mastery, I would like to see them modeled without Hunting Party/TotH. Not only will this settle a debate in the survival thread of Imp AotH vs Imp stings, but we may see higher max dps numbers in this thread.

Not sure what you mean by "seeing the spreadsheets modeled". You can change the specs used in the spreadsheet yourself to see how much DPS changes for whatever gearset you're interested in. That's what the above posts are all doing, tweaking gear and specs to find the most DPS, if you have an idea to increase DPS further, just try it out on the spreadsheet.

Mr Tazza · 04/24/09, 7:11 PM

Originally Posted by Beachwanderer

I have been very active in the survival thread and the top dps we are seeing is from 0/18/53 and 3/15/53 dropping points from Trap Mastery to Hawk Eye and the 2 points in Hunting Party, 1 point in TotH to either Imp. Stings or Imp AotH. While I'm not asking the spreadsheets be modeled without Trap Mastery, I would like to see them modeled without Hunting Party/TotH. Not only will this settle a debate in the survival thread of Imp AotH vs Imp stings, but we may see higher max dps numbers in this thread.

Glyphs: ES/KS/SrS (they seemed to be the best with each spec)

0/14/57 - 7631 DPS
3/15/53 - 7649 DPS
0/18/53 - 7651 DPS

This does mean the loss of hunting party though, which is probably the only replenishment provider along with shadowpriests in raids, and the dps gain is too low to justify that in my opinion

Midnight · 04/25/09, 9:42 AM

Originally Posted by Amiyuy

The boss was defaulted to a PTR dummy on the download version. I switched it to WotLK Boss for the 13083 armor, but it dramatically lowers the DPS, which is why I'm mentioning it because from the download it looks like that's the armor they were using for the MM and SV best specs.

Good point, I wasn´t intentionally using a lower value - it was just an oversight on my behalf. Until now I thought the PTR Test Dummy value was equal to the WotLK Boss one. I changed it for all 3 specs now. I also included your BM template.

Regarding the rapidshare problems - I also uploaded it to Megaupload now, hope this resolves the issues.

Hellacious · 04/26/09, 1:48 AM

Just wondering now with the Exp. with all the armor pen on our gear, is it a big factor in our dps. If so, what percent should we look at being at.

Grimmarg · 04/26/09, 11:17 AM

Changing the ring to [Metallic Loop of the Sufferer], the boot enchant to Icewalker, and the gem in the cloak to [Glinting Monarch Topaz] increases Best MM DPS to 7012,06 while still hitcapped!

torii · 04/26/09, 6:55 PM

What kind of DPS do folks pull on the test dummy when compared to an unbuffed spreadsheet? Are folks able to attain the theoretical dps in the sheet?

sihyunie · 04/26/09, 10:53 PM

We should use 10645 for armor. So on PTR and on 3.0, the armor was thought to be 13083 after some testing and Beast Lore on Maexxana. But with 3.1, they changed sunder armor and faerie fire to % armor reduction instead of static amount, which was a nerf to physical dps, but blue post also added that they adjusted boss armors to be about the same damage reduction. So the number was calculated to be 10645 for the same damage reduction after 25% armor reduction from sunder armor and faerie fire. I don't think it's been thoroughly tested after 3.1, but if we trust blue post, it should be about right.

Midnight · 04/27/09, 5:48 AM

Originally Posted by sihyunie

We should use 10645 for armor. So on PTR and on 3.0, the armor was thought to be 13083 after some testing and Beast Lore on Maexxana. But with 3.1, they changed sunder armor and faerie fire to % armor reduction instead of static amount, which was a nerf to physical dps, but blue post also added that they adjusted boss armors to be about the same damage reduction. So the number was calculated to be 10645 for the same damage reduction after 25% armor reduction from sunder armor and faerie fire. I don't think it's been thoroughly tested after 3.1, but if we trust blue post, it should be about right.

Arghs, you´re right of course. I changed it back to the PTR 83 Dummy value and uploaded it again.

@Grimmarg
I couldn´t validate your upgrade. For me the combination came out roughly 2 dps below the current one even though it´s so far above the hit cap. Maybe it´s because of the yet again changed armor.

Grimmarg · 04/27/09, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Midnight

Arghs, you´re right of course. I changed it back to the PTR 83 Dummy value and uploaded it again.

@Grimmarg
I couldn´t validate your upgrade. For me the combination came out roughly 2 dps below the current one even though it´s so far above the hit cap. Maybe it´s because of the yet again changed armor.

Yeah - I just downloaded the spreadsheet from your first post and made those changes and it gave me the dps increase. I guess the armor change changes things again.

And I just confirmed your findings. It's no longer a DPS increase. So much for that, then!

Thalen · 04/27/09, 1:41 PM

Mr Tazza · 04/27/09, 1:53 PM

Toxicus · 04/27/09, 5:15 PM

Ok i have never been a blacksmith before on any of my toons, and really never require the services of a blacksmith. So i am wondering, if someone could please explain, Why are we taking BS over LW now for maximum DPS? What exactly does blacksmithing provide? Also, which vs of smithing, weapon, armor?

stickums · 04/27/09, 5:18 PM

Blacksmithing is useful if you need gem slots that don't need to be color-coded for socket bonuses. You can drop a prismatic in there and activate meta gems much easier. This isn't much of a problem if you take JC though, since you will have 3 prismatics covering all possible combinations.

The other major advantage is that you can gain 32 agility instead of 64 attack power that comes with enchanting, inscription or leatherworking. The gain is minimal in practice, but 32 agi does parse out just a bit above 64 ap for survival.

Is it necessary? debatable.. but if we are discussing the pinnacle of min/max then blacksmithing is 2nd only to JC as far as professions go.

Toxicus · 04/27/09, 5:37 PM

Thanks very much for your fast response Stickums, greatly appreciate it!

I'll start working on them shortly

zedklind · 04/27/09, 9:06 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Tazza

I thought armor pen didn't effect explosive shot. Why is there an armor pen trinket. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's just what I've been hearing.

sihyunie · 04/27/09, 9:15 PM

Yes, armor pen doesn't affect explosive shot and serpent sting. However, after 3.1 buff of armor pen, it has become much stronger stat. For pure physical classes, it is one of the strongest stat. For us, agi is the best stat, but armor pen ranks pretty high, even ahead of crit depending on the gear setup. Also, unlike grim toll which has hit, mjolnir runestone has 102 crit as the passive bonus.

sihyunie · 04/27/09, 9:54 PM

wakeboarder1 · 04/28/09, 2:25 AM

I am having a little trouble understanding the spreadsheet. I got all my information input into the spreadsheet for my newly dinged survival hunter. I am in mostly BoE and LW gear. On the overview tab it is showing Intellect as having the highest value of all the stats. How can Intellect be higher than, say, agility? Is it strictly because of Careful Aim and the extra mana? Also, on the overview tab, what does it mean where it says "per item budget?" Forgive my noob questions, but hopefully this will help others besides myself.

Iroared · 04/28/09, 2:40 AM

Perhaps you should post it in the spreadsheet topic instead.
It is strange that int has more effect than agi for you. Can you attach your spreadsheet? I don't think it is possible even if you're wearing a lot of leather gear.
I don't have spreadsheet in front of me right now, but per item budget might refer to the amount of stats an item with a given level can have. In general, the higher level (item level, e.g. 200 for heroics and 213 for naxx25) the item is the more stats it can have and different stats have different value - a point of agility costs more item budget than a point of attack power does. Perhaps int has low budget cost and that's why you get a high value of "dps increase per item budget" - though I fail to see why you would use that number when comparing gear.

sihyunie · 04/28/09, 3:25 AM

Int will show more dps if your mana pool is small and don't have mana regen (check raid buffs).
Basically, more int reduces viper uptime, thus indirectly increasing dps, so at small mana pool, it can indeed be better than agility. However, with some decent gear and raid buffs, it quickly loses value.

Haggypants · 04/28/09, 6:41 AM

I probably am missing something but I was wondering why RapidFire is first in the shot rotation of priority? Does haste effect global cooldowns and i'm just now learning about it?