Would it be possible to include the glyphs in the initial details about a best dps setup on the first page? Pretty annoying having to download the sheet just to check that every now and then.

That doesn't make sense, so if an item drops that currently is a DPS downgrade but in the BiS collection it is the superior item you will not loot it? That situation does happen and have happened a few times before Ulduar. You also seem to be implying that a decision made about loot can't be a composite of several ideas and considerations, but instead is just the result of a single line of thought.

I suggest that the idea you proposed for picking items are too unrealistic, nobody follows that kind of logic. Currently I loot items that are an upgrade to me as the spreadsheet suggests, which most do. However, with the introduction of a BiS list, items are introduced to you that you would perhaps not have picked up unless they had featured on a BiS list. Thus the gear progression for most people pre-Ulduar was that they started out with whatever gear they had and started improving on it one piece at a time, keeping the results from this thread in mind making sure to pick up those items as well even if they weren't dps upgrades at the time. This progression path had two end points, one was the BiS list provided in this thread and the other was the natural progression that the spreadsheet would path out for each player. Given enough of the key items in the BiS list, it would eventually be possible to jump from the natural progression to a path that would eventually lead to the BiS list.

You're just not reading, or comprehending, what it is I am writing. You're implying I said the gear planner is not adequate for planning my next move, when what I said was that it is not a great tool for optimizing the optimal gear layout. Hence the existence of this thread. It is perfectly adequate to plug single items into and then figuring out if they are personal upgrades to you in this moment or not.

However the process of finding the BiS set is significantly more complex than trying to optimize your own gear setup one piece at a time. The way the spreadsheet is usually used is that you start out with your own gear layout, then start improving the set with one new item at a time usually taking the item that is the best upgrade for you at that moment. Eventually you will arrive at a setup that is very good, but not necessarily BiS because you started out with some assumptions. The only true way to find the BiS is to try every single combination of gearing. You can perhaps get lucky with finding the BiS set by identifying key items and then try to gear around those. That's pretty much what happened pre-Ulduar, some items were just really good and people started building sets around them and figured out that the original assumption of what to build your set around was wrong and that it was better to build them around another set of items. Anyways, that's how I see the process as it happened pre-Ulduar.

However, the only true way of really finding the BiS setup would be to try every single combination ala the Rawr Optimizer. The other way is much too complex to reasonably suggest that a single person will be successful in that attempt or even accomplish it in such a time that could be considered feasible. Thus, you have threads like these - our very own humanized distributed computing.

Start a new thread then for best possible DPS spreadsheets with easily accessible gear.

Should this thread include best possible dps for all greens you can buy off the AH? Or maybe only quest reward items? Lets not even go there.

Seriously what Midnight said is on point...

Dont think it would be that bad, with 1 hardmode best dps. And 1 none hardmode.

They are, click on the links to the specs. The WoWHead talent calculator includes them.

I use a mac and therefore can't use the SS readily, but has anyone tried plugging in Furious Gladiator's Shotgun? No AGI and only has crit instead of haste and ArP, but it's 3.0 seconds and higher item level than giants bane or Siren's Cry.

Figured the high stam for SV or the slow speed for MM, combined with the higher DPS (170.0) might allow it to edge out the others.

Spreadsheet version 88a.

Hunter dps: 6415.10
Pet dps: 1174.31
Total dps: 7589.41

Spec: 6/14/51
Race: Orc
Pet: Wolf
Shot Queue: KS/ES/BA/Sp/MS/SS

Head: Conqueror's Scourgestalker Headpiece - Arcanum of Torment - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond - Delicate Scarlet Ruby
Neck: Pendulum of Infinity - Delicate Dragon's Eye
Shoulders: Conqueror's Scourgestalker Spaulders - Greater Inscription of the Axe - Delicate Scarlet Ruby
Back: Drape of the Faceless General - Major Agility - Delicate Scarlet Ruby - Rigid Stormjewel
Chest: Conqueror's Scourgestalker Tunic - Powerful Stats - Delicate Scarlet Ruby - Delicate Dragon's Eye
Wrist: Frost-bound Chain Bracers - Greater Assault - Delicate Scarlet Ruby
Hands: Gloves of the Steady Hand - Major Agility - Delicate Scarlet Rubyx3
Waist: Belt of Dragons - Delicate Scarlet Rubyx2 - Delicate Dragon's Eye
Legs: Conqueror's Scourgestalker Legguards - Icescale Leg Armor - Delicate Scarlet Rubyx2
Feet: Greaves of Swift Vengeance - Icewalker - Delicate Scarlet Rubyx2
Ring: Brann's Signet Ring - Delicate Scarlet Ruby
Ring: Brann's Sealing Ring - Delicate Scarlet Ruby
Trinket: Darkmoon Card: Greatness
Trinket: Mjolnir Runestone
Main Hand: Lotrafen, Spear of the Damned - Massacre
Ranged: Giant's Bane - Heartseeker Scope
Ammo: Mammoth Cutters

This post is a response to Dravous' question about the Furious weapon.

Btw, not sure if this is the same Dravous that used to be on Whisperwind, if so, long time no see, hope all is well.

I plugged the Furious weapon in vs Giant's Bane, and on my SS and gear set it still shows Giant's bane ahead by around 10 dps...pretty minimal but still ahead..

Also I show the Furious gun ahead of Siren's Cry, assuming this is because we are both Dwarfs and we get the 1% crit from guns.

Anyways, this was a realquick look at it for me...could post some numbers if you really wanted, hope this helps...


Ginbar

Edit:

These are some actual numbers I came up with using SS version 88a and my current gear and build---http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Whisperwind&n=Ginbar...apparently Armory still is bugged for some, it doesnt appear to be showing all stats correctly, but it does have my current gear so atleast that will help..


Envoy of Mortality: 6615
Furious Gladiator's Shotgun: 6600
Furious Gladiator's Rifle: 6633
Giant's Bane: 6640
Siren's Cry: 6604

Anyhow, hope this helps..

Can anyone tell me what is wrong with my spreadsheet? It is trying to tell me that my T7.5 shoulders are WAY better than T8.5.

This list is a little biased because your a Dwarf.

For Survival, Siren's and Giant's should be roughly on par above the rest.

For Marks, Furious Gladiator's Shotgun should be a long way ahead of the rest (please note the Shotgun is listed as the Rifle in the spreadsheet and vise versa).

If your a dwarf/troll this will obviously swing the balance towards the racial type of weapon.

As a slight tangent to this, Shandara mentioned that the T7 2/5 bonus on Live didn't reflect the behaviour on the PTR which the spreadsheet was modelling where it gave the pet around +5% AP. This has been fixed in 88a so you may notice that the T7 2piece bonus has lost value compared to version 87. Regardless, this is a bit moot since the BIS currently options for the 4pc T8.

If you would read the previous post, you would see that I stated "dwarf" gets advantage cause of racial, of which I and the asker---Dravous are both...

The list was specific to our race and class; just a quick ref is all...

Edit: ugh I was actually planning to post this in the normal spreadsheet topic. Thats what you get for reading multiple threads at once. Sorry.

Sorry if someone has already answered this. I skimmed over a few pages and didn't find any answer though... When I look in the spreadsheet, it shows Siren's being about 15 dps better than Giant's. However, most the posts here use Giant's over Siren's. I'm wondering which is better? I am a night elf with no racial bonus to weapons.

Yes Ginbar, it is me. Good to see you.

Thanks for the info, and yes it was with dwarf's in mind. However, I assume thats based on a SV build, and as Kom suggested, I believe it still may be ahead for MM. This is due to CS using weapon damage, and that gun is higher item level and slower, making CS hit that much harder.

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I believe that it's slower speed will also increase the value of any haste. 15% haste will have greater total impact on a 3.0 speed weapon that a 2.9 speed weapon, although granted it would be very small increase.

Edit: Just to clarify, MM use a greater % of auto-shots, which would definitely benefit more from the higher DPS weapon and is what would allow haste to increase in value.

The World of Warcraft Armory

My hunter is in the above link. The spreadsheet shows that 2 points in GFTT is giving me more dps than Hunting party, or other options for that 1 point. Considering I am at a medium-high gear level, shouldnt it be different? If it is not, does this dps increase actually apply to actual raiding circumstances?

I get this as slightly better than other layouts for SV, going for 8% hit cap. Is it me, or can others confirm?

Hands: T8.25
Belt: Death-warmed
Legs: Legguards of Cunning Deception

Switch gems around if necessary.

2 new items for us:

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...reambinder.jpg (Staff - Phys.DPS) dropped from Freya in Hard Mode.

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...gecrossbow.jpg (Crossbow - Phys.DPS) dropped from Thorim in Hard Mode

Best in slots, aye?

I'm not seeing that staff nearly as BiS. Lot's of crit loss for a SV. I could see it being up there for BM maaaybe...

The staff is indeed the best in slot according to the spreadsheet. I just put in 2 scarlet rubies to make gemming simple. It's most likely thanks to the absurdly high ArP on that weap.
As for the xbow, it is the best in slot unless you are a dwarf. For dwarves, you need to be able to use the hit to make it BiS. It remains to be seen if we can swap other gears around to make a set of gears using the xbow to get better dps (ie is the hit gained more efficiently with the weap or some other slot).