Are these 3 glyphs really the best choice for MM spec ? How about Chimera shot//Kill shot ?

I find the Kill Shot glyph to be much better on fights with boss mobs that have a high health pool. i.e. Loatheb or Hodir. In a 45 second span, you will get an extra 2 kill shots with the glyph vs 3 without.

As for the Chimera Shot glyph, it will throw your rotation off slightly, but it is managable. You can replace the Serpent Sting with this one and not have to worry about the effect ever falling off if you are doing your rotation correctly.

Also does silence shot do that much damage

You should never ever replace the Serpent Sting glyph as MM, as it increases the damage of your Chimera Shot effect by 40%. The second and third glyph slot are much more up to preference (CS, TSA, Hawk, KS...).

Just read the tooltip? It does damage equal to 50% of your Auto Shot, which isn't that much, but as others have said, it's basically free damage if you have enough mana (and aren't in danger of interrupting something, which can really mess up the melees' interrupt rotations on fights like Vezax).

All of these will be relative to the MM max DPS profile I posted earlier and assuming 200ms lag, spreadsheet default.

Glyph of Serpent Sting: ~225 DPS, 20-60 higher with very low latency and Glyph of Chimera Shot
MM mandatory. Increases the damage of the Chimera Shot serpent effect by 40% and multiplies with both the 10% bonus from 2-piece T8 and 30% bonus from imp stings. ~225 DPS

Glyph of Steady Shot: ~100 DPS
The 10% boost on Steady Shot may seem small, but remember that even in a best rotation situation, you're still going to fire roughly three times the number of Steady Shots compared to the other individual shots (unless you've got a very high/low ping, you'll fire roughly 2400 Steadies versus 800ish out of 5000 GCDs with 200 for misc stuff like rapid fire and readiness). Combine that with a high crit chance and Piercing Shots and you get some pretty damn good DPS out of it for a filler shot.

Glyph of the Hawk: ~60 DPS, variable by about 20-40 DPS due to the RNG nature of IAotH
Two reasons why this glyph is important for the max theoretical DPS build I posted: First, Auto Shot does quite a bit of damage as MM, representing roughly 25-30% of your DPS between auto and wild quiver auto. More haste means more auto shots means higher uptime on Imp Hawk. Second, hardmode gear doesn't have all that much haste. 4.1% haste or 141 haste rating with the build I posted, to be exact. A build with Dreambinder won't boost that much, either. This glyph helps cover this deficit by improving IAotH, which in turn improves the uptime of IAotH a little bit. DPS gained will vary quite a bit in practice based on the RNG of IAotH procs.

Glyph of Kill Shot: ~50-70 DPS depending on latency, variable based on time spent sub-20%
This glyph works out to about a ~250 DPS boost during the sub-20% portion of a fight, less if you use it in conjunction with Chimera Shot. Assuming you spend 20% of the fight sub-20%, it works out to ~50 DPS. Latency also plays a factor. <125ms latency will result in a gain of 350 DPS sub-20, or ~70 DPS. Of course, you'll spend less than 20% of a fight sub-20%, unless you're DPSing something like Yogg phase 3, so these numbers are probably lower. Keep in mind this glyph pumps out much higher DPS for SV due to a 20%+ higher critrate on Kill Shot compared to MM.

Glyph of Trueshot Aura: ~35-60 DPS, depending on spec
If you're running TSA in your spec already, you'll gain about 60 DPS. If you drop 1 in Imp Barrage to get TSA like I would have to in that max profile, it's a ~35 DPS increase.

Glyph of Rapid Fire: ~20-25 DPS, slightly higher with Glyph of the Hawk
Even though you'll be pushing it every time it's up and then again with readiness, the uptime is too small to make it a big enough DPS increase. An IAotH proc will improve the DPS gain slightly, evenmoreso with Glyph of the Hawk.

Glyph of Hunter's Mark: ~20-30 DPS to all hunters, depending on 3/3 Imp Mark
Just like Imp Mark, if you're not running 3+ hunters in a 25-man raid, it's not worth it due to the personal DPS you'll sac to pick it up.

Glyph of Chimera Shot: Variable, 0-100+ depending on latency and presence of Kill/Aimed glyphs
You really need to have really low (<125ms) latency to take advantage of this glyph. If you can pull that, you can gain a good 100+ DPS. Otherwise, it does absolutely nothing for DPS. This is why I didn't use it in the max DPS spec, with the default latency of 200ms it does nothing for you because your GCD delay from latency will push it to 10 sec anyways. Kill and Aimed further mess with the shot rotation, the presence of either will reduce any of the DPS gains you get with this glyph due to delaying Chimera for either of those shots during the applicable situation.

Glyph of Aimed Shot: ~-(50) DPS (loss)
OK, it either gets delayed for Chimera or you delay Chimera for it. Either way, you lose. Not good for MM.

Edit: Glyph of Kill Shot
Edit 2: Glyph of Trueshot Aura and Hunter's Mark

Alright, let's try this again. Slightly tweaked some stuff, different spec.

Hunter DPS 6611.69
Pet DPS 1099.33
Total DPS 7711.02

Race: Orc
Professions: JC/LW
Spec: 7/57/7
Pet: Wolf
Flask: Endless Rage
Food: Blackened Dragonfin

Glyphs:
Glyph of Kill Shot
Glyph of Steady Shot
Glyph of Serpent Sting

Rotation Priority:
Rapid Fire
Serpent Sting
Kill Shot
Chimera Shot
Silencing Shot
Readiness
Aimed Shot
Arcane Shot
Steady Shot

Main Hand: Lotrafen, Spear of the Damned - Massacre (Two Hand)
Head: Conqueror's Scourgestalker Headpiece - Arcanum of Torment - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (21 Agi) - Delicate Stormjewel (20 Agility)
Neck: Pendulum of Infinity - Delicate Dragon's Eye (27 Agi)
Shoulders: Conqueror's Scourgestalker Spaulders - Greater Inscription of Vengeance - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Back: Drape of the Faceless General - Major Agility - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi) - Delicate Dragon's Eye (27 Agi)
Chest : Conqueror's Scourgestalker Tunic - Powerful Stats - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi) - Delicate Dragon's Eye (27 Agi)
Wrist: Frost-bound Chain Bracers - Fur Lining - Attack Power
Hands: Gloves of the Steady Hand - Major Agility - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi) - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Waist: Belt of the Betrayed - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Legs: Conqueror's Scourgestalker Legguards - Icescale Leg Armor - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi) - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Feet: Greaves of Swift Vengeance - Icewalker - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi) - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Ring: Brann's Signet Ring - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Ring: Brann's Sealing Ring - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Trinket: Darkmoon Card: Greatness
Trinket: Mjolnir Runestone
Ranged Weapon: Skyforge Crossbow - Heartseeker Scope
Ammo: Saronite Razorheads

Note: this spec assumes you have another hunter running imp/glyphed mark
Note2: You could go Alch instead of LW to get the exact same stats under Flask of Endless Rage through Mixology

BTW if you apply what I said above about Chimera by cranking the latency on the rotation tab down to 50ms and use Glyph of Chimera Shot instead of Kill, you get:

Hunter DPS 6901.02
Pet DPS 1099.42
Total DPS 8000.44

But that would be cheating!

If you take Varance's MM template and switch professions from LW to BS, you can replace the Fur Lining enchant on the bracers with Greater Assault (50 AP), and then utilize the Prismatic Sockets on the Wrists and Gloves for Delicate Scarlet Ruby in each socket.

This will bump the overall DPS to 7719.27

Edit: as an orc, he also seemed to have left Blood Fury out of his rotation, which would further enhance his DPS to 7741.32

Why not just have a BiS hard mode and non hard mode. Everything else stays the same, the only difference would be where the items drop.

I think that's where the split is. Not everyone is able to get hard mode items but still would like to achieve the best possible DPS they can.

Others could use the BiS non hard mode list as transition items or filler until their guild is able to do hard modes. I don't think most guilds are going from BiS Naxx to BiS Ulduar since most of the Bis Ulduar are from hard mode encounters. Adding in a tiered BiS could be very useful.

Wait so... MM has higher DPS now?

I did understand what you and the others were saying but this still means twice the amount of time and work invested for something I personally don´t really deem necessary. Hence my offer to include it in the OP if anyone else is willing to do the work.

Hey midnight

MM
Total DPS: 7741,32
Hunter DPS: 6636,55
Pet DPS: 1104,77

Surv
Total DPS: 7685,66
Hunter DPS: 6611,69
Pet DPS: 1172,98

6611.69+1172.98= 7784.67

Someone either added it wrong and you didn't catch that or you typod in the OP.
Just thought you should fix that.

I can't guarantee that I can keep it updated (if someone else can, feel free to), but I threw together a quick BIS no hard mode set for each spec: http://april-morning.net/estrela/spr...rdmode_88b.xls

I'll update it when others post up changes, but they may be delayed quite a bit (so if 'you' have more time, go ahead and take over!). The rules are the same as for the bar none BIS sheet, the only difference is no gear whatsoever can come from hard mode.

[e] Numbers for the curious:

BM Template:
Total DPS: 6646.68
Hunter DPS: 3667.11
Pet DPS: 2979.57
AP: 8063
Crit: 44.41%
Hit: 100.00%
ArP: 319
Shot Queue: KS/Sp/AS/MS/SS
Spec: 54/12/5
Race: Orc
Pet: Devilsaur

MM Template:
Total DPS: 7450.18
Hunter DPS: 6343.89
Pet DPS: 1106.29
AP: 8044
Crit: 53.08%
Hit: 100.00%
ArP: 369
Shot Queue: KS/Sp/CS/AS/AiS/SilS/SS
Spec: 7/57/7
Race: Orc
Pet: Wolf

SV Template:
Total DPS: 7389.00
Hunter DPS: 6200.46
Pet DPS: 1188.54
AP: 9319
Crit: 59.86%
Hit: 100.00%
ArP: 319
Shot Queue: KS/ES/BA/Sp/MS/SS
Spec: 6/14/51
Race: Orc
Pet: Wolf
Note for SV: With Belt of Dragons the DPS is at 7388.82, Belt of the Betrayed is 7389 even. Belt of Dragons might be preferable because it's crafted.

@Zigazaha
Thanks for pointing out. It was a typo indeed.

@Sunsmoon
Included your Spreadsheet and the values in the OP

I don't understand.. since when is MM suddenly top dps? And why - what has been changed?

If i play araund for best BM i get this:
Standard buffs:
Hunter DPS 3806,17
Pet Dps 3071,61
Total DPS 6877,77
Ranged Critical Hit Chance vs. Level 83 40,23%
Ranged Hit Chance vs. Level 83 100,14%
Orc
Devilsaur

Glyph of Kill Shot
Glyph of the Hawk
Glyph of Bestial Wrath

Rapid Fire
Bestial Wrath
Blood Fury
Kill Shot
Multi-Shot
Arcane Shot
Serpent Sting
Steady Shot


Dreambinder, Massacre (Two Hand), Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi), Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Conqueror's Scourgestalker Headpiece, Arcanum of Torment, Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (21 Agi), Delicate Stormjewel
Seed of Budding Carnage, Bright Scarlet Ruby (32 AP)
Iron-studded Mantle, Greater Inscription of the Axe
Drape of Icy Intent, Major Agility, Bright Scarlet Ruby (32 AP)
Conqueror's Scourgestalker Tunic, Powerful Stats, Bright Scarlet Ruby (32 AP), Bright Dragon's Eye (54 AP)
Frost-bound Chain Bracers, Greater Assault, Bright Scarlet Ruby (32 AP)
Valorous Cryptstalker Handguards, Precision, Bright Scarlet Ruby (32 AP), Bright Scarlet Ruby (32 AP)
Belt of the Betrayed, Bright Scarlet Ruby (32 AP)
Valorous Cryptstalker Legguards, Icescale Leg Armor, Bright Scarlet Ruby (32 AP), Bright Dragon's Eye (54 AP)
Boots of Living Scale, Icewalker, Bright Scarlet Ruby (32 AP), Bright Dragon's Eye (54 AP)
Brann's Sealing Ring, Bright Scarlet Ruby (32 AP)
Brann's Signet Ring, Bright Scarlet Ruby (32 AP)
Darkmoon Card: Greatness
Mjolnir Runestone
Skyforge Crossbow Mammoth Cutters


there is probably something better but the one that was on first page was outdated a lot.

I will wait until the socket bonuses are revealed before writing down the detail highest dps but MM is not top dps atm. I get around 7700 dps with SV at 88b. MM is not even close.

Hrm, I thought I went through and made sure there was none whatsoever. :X

Ah, apparently I uploaded the wrong save. Fixed!

@ sunsmoon
I downloaded your spreadsheet, but am not getting the stats you indicated in your post above. Maybe I'm missing something?

Or maybe I downloaded after you changed from hard mode ... >.>

*goes to look*

Edit: Nope, still getting Loop of the Agile (10 Man Iron Council Hard) and Mjolnir Runestone (10 man Thorim Hard Mode)

Just downloaded the non hardmode spreadsheet, too. It seems still to be the wrong one using hardmode items.

I was under the impression, and I could be wrong, please point it out if I am, that if your latency is constant, for example, for me is usually between 210 to 270, hovering around 245 or so 90% of the time, then the timing for the shots will be the same once you go thru your first rotation. In other words, that if you have the chimera shot glyph, it would fire after 9 seconds, unless you have a latency spike.

How are you getting these numbers?


Reports are showing the 2P T8 bonus does NOT factor into the chimera shot/serpent sting damage and the spreadsheet does not show a multiplicative property for stacking them. Also for the glyph of chimera shot, you are assuming anything above 125 latency will result in bursts of lag that null this glyph out (0-100+ ?) 200 ms is fine for client/server side updating of a shot rotation and wont cause bursts of lag that shave 1 second off your rotation every 10 seconds.

Also, you put killshot so low in your priority, even though mm doesn't have sniper training, the low mana cost/execute shot should have priorty over the other shots you listed.

As previously said, switching LW to BS would also net you a DPS gain.

Finding the max theoretical dps shouldnt factor in lag bursts and suboptimal latency.

Hopefully it's fixed now. I downloaded it twice after reuploading and it seems to be working. Verify? ^^'

http://april-morning.net/estrela/spr...rdmode_88b.xls