Best Possible DPS in Shandaras WotLK Spreadsheet - Page 2

DanluvsKelly · 01/18/09, 7:35 PM

Originally Posted by Neruse

It's better by about 5-10 dps because it increases mana regen and time to OOM.

Hmm if that's the case, then being an Alchemist and having the Mixology benefits would only further increase the dps gain correct?

Rokh · 01/18/09, 8:32 PM

Originally Posted by Nooska

Isn't MST raidwide now?

Mana Spring Totem and Mana Tide Totem are party-wide only still unfortunately.

Rezdan · 01/18/09, 8:46 PM

It seems to me that most raids nowadays run with at least one Draenei and I'd like to put their buff, Draenei Presence, forward to be used by both the Hunter and the Pet for this exercise. To my understanding, the buff is Raid wide and should, therefore, be available.

Etchy · 01/18/09, 9:01 PM

It seems to me that most raids nowadays run with at least one Draenei and I'd like to put their buff, Draenei Presence, forward to be used by both the Hunter and the Pet for this exercise. To my understanding, the buff is Raid wide and should, therefore, be available.

But you have to remember, some people do play Horde. Though the fact does really turn into an "are you Alliance, or are you Horde?" kind of thing. It'd be interesting to see if any of these items that are best in slot with hit would change. Don't have access to Excel right now so I can't tell myself.

Rezdan · 01/18/09, 9:10 PM

Ah right, totally forgot about Horde missing this buff. Better go get some coffee.

Vaxum · 01/18/09, 9:50 PM

The point of this thread back in TBC was "what is the true theoretical maximum?". Even though not everyone could hit the maximum based on their current race, professions, raid composition or gear, it was still interesting as a (somewhat theoretical) exercise.

I think that saying "no, you can't look for a solution with Draenei aura" because not everyone is Alliance is akin to saying "no, you can't look for a solution that requires Orc/Dwarf/etc", "no, you can't look for a solution that require these 2 professions" or "no, you can't assume access to these raid buffs" because not everyone already has the right race, professions & raid makeup. People re-roll all the time, and knowing the theoretical limit can be useful.

Lots of folk have pointed out that the spreadsheet is not a 100% model of reality. It isn't. But it is enough of a controlled system that looking for a true "best" within it is interesting, and anything it models should be fair game.

Personally, I'll play the game in this thread, the way the majority decides - but I would prefer/recommend that we let people twiddle all the knobs & dials in the model and see what they come up with. We might even learn something.

Edit: IMO this thread should be about what it's title says: "Best possible DPS in Shandara's WotLK Spreadsheet", not "A list of good gear to get" - anyone active on these forums should be capable of making their own list. IMO this thread is for collectively finding the absolute theoretical maximum. Today, this is probably Dwarf b/c of 1% crit to guns + 1% hit from Draenei aura. In Ulduar, weapon itemization might change this to Troll for the 1% crit to bows & damage-to-beasts, or Orc for Blood Fury & the pet damage buff. I would prefer the thread use rules that give the freedom to determine the best setup today, and evolve that setup in the future without having to redefine all the baseline rules.

Whitemane · 01/18/09, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Vaxum

Personally, I'll play the game in this thread, the way the majority decides - but I would prefer/recommend that we let people twiddle all the knobs & dials in the model and see what they come up with. We might even learn something.

The problem with accepting Draenei racial to be used is that it definitely rearranges the ranking of items. This thread would essentially become entirely useless if you give people permission to mess with too many things, it needs to be able to be relevant to as many people as possible. Would it be irrelevant for alliance players though if the draenei racial was excluded?

Rezdan · 01/18/09, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Whitemane

Would it be irrelevant for alliance players though if the draenei racial was excluded?

Truthfully, I would answer Yes, it would be irrelevant for alliance players to exclude the buff. This buff has such a huge impact, as you noted, and it is so common in 25man raids Alliance side. I too believe that this buff should be grouped along with that of Dwarf Gun Specialization and Orc's Racial but that it should be available to all Alliance races.

That said, I'll stick to the buffs outlined in the OP.

sihyunie · 01/19/09, 1:10 AM

Personally, I think alliance should be able to use heroic presence. It's an easy buff to get and you can't really say you've reached the theoretical maximum disregarding such a big buff. Also, if you are calculating dps with mana spring totem as an alliance, you have to have heroic presence, since you have a shaman in your party. Also, is replenishment uptime really only 50%? In 25man raid, you will probably have 5 ppl that don't use mana, which only requires 2 ppl to provide replenishment for 100% uptime for the entire raid. 2 ret/sp's seem pretty reasonable. This would also make taking hunting party unnecessary. Since we are looking for the theoretical maximum, these seem to be fair assumptions. For now, I'll stick to the buffs in OP and post my setup later. As for shot rotation, I don't think ppl should be using multi-shot. It's a 2 sec cast shot disguised as "instant." Because of its 0.5 sec cast time, it's a terrible shot to use and the spreadsheet doesn't account for it, thus giving dps increase when used, when it actually is doing less dps than steady shot. As for profession, if you want to take blacksmithing, you can just add 32 agility to hand adjust portion in the gear tab.

Another thing to add.
Neruse's setups (both Marks and SV ones) use 4 Dragon's Eyes in Neck, Chest, Wrist, and Legs. It should be ~15 dps lower.

bashwolf · 01/19/09, 1:38 AM

Survival Layout

v82 spreadsheet: 6809.29 dps (Hunter: 5632.03, Pet: 1177.26).

Race: Orc
Professions: Jewelcrafting + Leatherworking
Spec: 6/14/51
Pet Spec: Raptor
Glyphs: Serpent Sting, IAotH, Steady Shot
Buffs/debuffs: All except Draenei racial.
Consumables: Elixir of Mighty Agility, Elixir of Mighty Thoughts, Blacked Dragonfin, Kibler's Bits
Shot Priority: Rapid Fire > Blood Fury > Serpent Sting > Kill Shot > Explosive Shot > Multi Shot > Steady Shot
Pet Priority: Savage Rend > Claw

Gear:
Melee - [Black Ice][Scroll of Enchant 2H Weapon - Massacre]
Head - [Blue Aspect Helm][Relentless Earthsiege Diamond][Delicate Scarlet Ruby][Arcanum of Torment]
Neck - [Favor of the Dragon Queen][Delicate Dragon's Eye]
Shoulders - [Valorous Cryptstalker Spaulders][Delicate Scarlet Ruby][Greater Inscription of the Axe]
Back - [Drape of the Deadly Foe][Scroll of Enchant Cloak - Major Agility]
Chest - [Chestguard of Flagrant Prowess][Delicate Scarlet Ruby][Delicate Dragon's Eye][Scroll of Enchant Chest - Super Stats]
Wrists - [Slime Stream Bands][Delicate Scarlet Ruby]Fur Lining - Attack Power
Hands - [Valorous Cryptstalker Handguards][Delicate Scarlet Ruby][Scroll of Enchant Gloves - Major Agility]
Waist - [Torn Web Wrapping][Eternal Belt Buckle][Delicate Scarlet Ruby]
Legs - [Leggins of Failed Escape][Delicate Scarlet Ruby][Delicate Dragon's Eye][Icescale Leg Armor]
Feet - [Boots of the Renewed Flight][Scroll of Enchant Boots - Icewalker]
Rings - [Surge Needle Ring][Strong-Handed Ring]
Trinkets - [Fury of the Five Flights]Darkmoon Card: Greatness
Ranged - [Envoy of Mortality][Heartseeker Scope]
Other - [Dragonscale Ammo Pouch][Mammoth Cutters]

Mikari · 01/19/09, 2:39 AM

Originally Posted by Neruse

Marksman Layout

v82 spreadsheet: 5887.76 dps (Hunter: 4736.66, Pet: 1151.10).
Without Mana Spring: 5837.12 dps (Hunter: 4687.81, Pet: 1149.31)

Race: Dwarf (Gun Specialization)
Professions: Jewelcrafting + Leatherworking
Spec: 15/51/5
Pet Spec: Raptor
Glyphs: Serpent Sting, IAotH, Steady Shot
Buffs/debuffs: Exactly as OP, but with Mana Spring added.
Consumables: Elixir of Mighty Agility, Elixir of Mighty Thoughts, Blacked Dragonfin, Kibler's Bits
Shot Priority: Rapid Fire > Readiness > Serpent Sting > Chimera Shot > Kill Shot > Aimed Shot > Arcane Shot > Steady Shot
Pet Priority: Savage Rend > Claw

Gear:
Melee - [Journey's End] + [Scroll of Enchant 2H Weapon - Massacre]
Head - [Blue Aspect Helm] + [Arcanum of Ferocity] + [Relentless Earthsiege Diamond] + [Glinting Monarch Topaz]
Neck - [Favor of the Dragon Queen] + [Delicate Dragon's Eye]
Shoulders - [Valorous Cryptstalker Spaulders] + [Greater Inscription of the Axe] + [Delicate Scarlet Ruby]
Back - [Drape of the Deadly Foe] + [Scroll of Enchant Cloak - Superior Agility]
Chest - [Valorous Cryptstalker Tunic] + [Formula: Enchant Chest - Powerful Stats] + [Delicate Scarlet Ruby] + [Delicate Dragon's Eye]
Wrists - [Slime Stream Bands] + Fur Lining - Attack Power + [Delicate Dragon's Eye]
Hands - [Frosted Adroit Handguards] + [Scroll of Enchant Gloves - Crusher]
Waist - [Torn Web Wrapping] + [Eternal Belt Buckle] + [Delicate Scarlet Ruby]
Legs - [Leggings of Failed Escape] + [Icescale Leg Armor] + [Delicate Scarlet Ruby] + [Delicate Dragon's Eye]
Feet - [Boots of the Renewed Flight] + [Scroll of Enchant Boots - Superior Agility]
Rings - [Surge Needle Ring] + [Strong-Handed Ring]
Trinkets - [Fury of the Five Flights] + [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
Ranged - [Envoy of Mortality] + [Heartseeker Scope]
Other - [Dragonscale Ammo Pouch] + [Mammoth Cutters]

I noticed you have 4 jewelers gems in your set ups, you can only have 3 at a time equipped.

elandriel · 01/19/09, 4:32 AM

What I would love to see with each gear/specc post is the combined stats (Hit, Crit and Haste percentages. Stamina, Agility, Attack Power, ArP) that the gear/talent setup gives. Especially the haste rating one, considering that BIS gear doesn't always cap it. This, I believe, will also help us identify what makes the difference between each gear setup.

Also I see almost every post has Raptor as its pet of choice. So my question is: can it be modeled in the spreadsheet to have Savage Rend and Kill Command combined (they both have 1 min. cooldown). Since, according to patch notes, all pet abilities with cds longer than 30 secs are off the GCD after 3.0.8.

Balle · 01/19/09, 4:38 AM

how do you put Savage Rend > Claw? Do you put Savage Rend in your SS macro?

Rokh · 01/19/09, 5:49 AM

Originally Posted by Vaxum

Personally, I'll play the game in this thread, the way the majority decides - but I would prefer/recommend that we let people twiddle all the knobs & dials in the model and see what they come up with. We might even learn something.

The problem with this is that the sheet has FAR to many options these days; fight length, boss armor will greatly decide what spec/pet/gear is best. Adjusting these settings have to be limited to some extent; otherwise a Moth as BM and Readiness will win every 30 second fight we model.

But that's far from reality.

Whitemane · 01/19/09, 8:24 AM

I would suggest though that specific spreadsheet is uploaded for this exercise, with every buff and so on set - so that people would only need to tinker with gear and just leave everything else alone. Talents, you have the spec specific threads for that.