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Old 05/25/09, 11:29 AM   #526
 Varance
No love for BM?
 
Varance's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Cho'gall
Keep in mind that you will no longer be able to use Dragon's Eyes to fill blue/yellow sockets and still get the set bonus. Stick these in red sockets to properly simulate the change on the spreadsheet (for now). Finally managed to cook up an 8000+ DPS MM build, I'll post it later tonight after some more testing.

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Old 05/25/09, 11:55 AM   #527
Ranzman
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Gilneas (EU)
found a little update for MM nonhardmode:

Change Race to Dwarf, turn Draenei Racial on.

Change Weapn to Giant's Bane and Cloak to Drape of the Deadly Foe.

New DPS: 7461,58

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Old 05/25/09, 7:47 PM   #528
IceyDevil
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Druid
 
Zul'Jin
Having trouble vizualizing the SS glyph under the posted MM build.
Correct my logic if its wrong, but here goes:
CS glyph makes it 9 seconds instead of 10, that's a 10% decrease in cooldown which equates to a 10% increase in number of CS shot, and roughly a 10% damage increase for CS as a result.
SS glyph increases damage of SS by 10%, simply.

They both give ~10% to their respective shots (assuming your rotation is perfectly fluid and hit capped/etc), so why not use CS glyph since CS will end up doing more damage than SS over the course of a fight?

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Old 05/25/09, 8:22 PM   #529
sihyunie
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by IceyDevil View Post
Having trouble vizualizing the SS glyph under the posted MM build.
Correct my logic if its wrong, but here goes:
CS glyph makes it 9 seconds instead of 10, that's a 10% decrease in cooldown which equates to a 10% increase in number of CS shot, and roughly a 10% damage increase for CS as a result.
SS glyph increases damage of SS by 10%, simply.

They both give ~10% to their respective shots (assuming your rotation is perfectly fluid and hit capped/etc), so why not use CS glyph since CS will end up doing more damage than SS over the course of a fight?
Because the spreadsheet applies latency to every gcd. So with the default setting of 200ms latency, it effectively makes every gcd 1.7 sec, which makes chimera shot glyph useless. However, I believe this is not the case as cast bars on client side and server side are unhinged since 2.3 and if you spam the button, they will fire on time even without /stopcasting macro. I've seen chimera shot glyph actually have effect in real life. I believe many players actually do use chimera shot glyph. But for this thread, you'd need to reduce latency to 0 to see the effect of chimera shot glyph.

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Old 05/25/09, 11:01 PM   #530
IceyDevil
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Druid
 
Zul'Jin
Hmm, I suppose it seems to me that a longer GCD from lag would simply change up your rotation, and using a different rotation would merely reduce the number of extra SS's, leaving your CSes untarnished if you prioritize them (which we are anyway?).

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Old 05/25/09, 11:21 PM   #531
Rezdan
Don Flamenco
 
Rezdan's Avatar
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Nagrand
Originally Posted by Ranzman View Post
found a little update for MM nonhardmode:

Change Race to Dwarf, turn Draenei Racial on.

Change Weapn to Giant's Bane and Cloak to Drape of the Deadly Foe.

New DPS: 7461,58
Changing from Orc to Dwarf means you'd also have to remove the Orc Racial from the Shot Rotations tab.

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Old 05/25/09, 11:23 PM   #532
DMCASHEW04
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by Ranzman View Post
found a little update for MM nonhardmode:

Change Race to Dwarf, turn Draenei Racial on.

Change Weapn to Giant's Bane and Cloak to Drape of the Deadly Foe.

New DPS: 7461,58
How does Draenei racial work while being a Dwarf?

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Old 05/25/09, 11:30 PM   #533
Skybluesky
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Bladefist
Originally Posted by DMCASHEW04 View Post
How does Draenei racial work while being a Dwarf?
It's a raid buff. It works the same way as Blessing of Might works while being a hunter.

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Old 05/26/09, 4:00 AM   #534
Sean
Piston Honda
 
Orc Hunter
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by sihyunie View Post
But for this thread, you'd need to reduce latency to 0 to see the effect of chimera shot glyph.
That's untrue - you only need to reduce the latency to 150ms from the default 200ms to see an effect on the spreadsheet. It's a pretty big effect too - even at 150ms it easily becomes the best glyph to use in combination with the Serpent Sting glyph. 150ms is also a more reasonable setting and should probably be the default rather than 200ms. 200ms is rather high.

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Old 05/26/09, 12:18 PM   #535
Grummy
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Thunderlord
Maybe this isn't the best place to ask, but can someone enlighten me as to why [Magnetized Projectile Emitter] ranks so poorly versus [Siren's Cry], [Giant's Bane], and even [Envoy of Mortality]? It has the same DPS, good stats, and a red socket that provides an extra 8 AP socket bonus.

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Old 05/26/09, 1:15 PM   #536
Ranzman
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Gilneas (EU)
Originally Posted by Rezdan View Post
Changing from Orc to Dwarf means you'd also have to remove the Orc Racial from the Shot Rotations tab.
is there an option to change the shot rotation or do i have to change all manual?

Originally Posted by Rezdan View Post
Changing from Orc to Dwarf means you'd also have to remove the Orc Racial from the Shot Rotations tab.
hm... i removed the Blood Fury from position 9 and took none, and the DPS is still 7461,58. Do is miss something?

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Old 05/26/09, 1:55 PM   #537
lucilebluth
Glass Joe
 
Human Priest
 
Cenarius
Originally Posted by Grummy View Post
Maybe this isn't the best place to ask, but can someone enlighten me as to why [Magnetized Projectile Emitter] ranks so poorly versus [Siren's Cry], [Giant's Bane], and even [Envoy of Mortality]? It has the same DPS, good stats, and a red socket that provides an extra 8 AP socket bonus.
The hit on it is considered 'wasted' by the spreadsheet if you're otherwise hit capped, so the 10man gun gets ranked down. Drop some hit from other places in your gear, and you'll probably see it ranked higher.

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Old 05/26/09, 2:38 PM   #538
Grummy
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Thunderlord
Originally Posted by lucilebluth View Post
The hit on it is considered 'wasted' by the spreadsheet if you're otherwise hit capped, so the 10man gun gets ranked down. Drop some hit from other places in your gear, and you'll probably see it ranked higher.
Yes, I factored this in. Disregard my original post, looks like the weapon was fixed in v89. As I had expected, [Magnetized Projectile Emitter] is 2nd BiS for my current gear, behind the much superior [Skyforge Crossbow]. Thanks for the help.

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Old 05/27/09, 12:35 AM   #539
Grappas
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Cenarius
Some upcoming changes announced today:

Hunter (3.1 Skills List / 3.1 Talent + Glyph Calc.)
Hunter's Mark: The ranged attack power bonus from this ability has been increased from 300 to 500.
Master Marksman: This talent now also decreases the cost of Aimed Shot and Chimera Shot by 5/10/15/20/25%.

Think I'm going to switch to Marks now and start getting used to the play style.

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Old 05/27/09, 7:31 PM   #540
Kuf
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Ysondre
BiS Trinkets

So the two BiS trinkets for survival including hard modes are what? I passed Mjolnir Runestone to a rogue last night....

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Old 05/27/09, 7:43 PM   #541
Sherbet
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Scilla
Originally Posted by Kuf View Post
So the two BiS trinkets for survival including hard modes are what? I passed Mjolnir Runestone to a rogue last night....
You can download the spreadsheet and check this kind of information out yourself.

However, to quickly help you, the two current best trinkets for a Survival Hunter are Darkmoon Card: Greatness and Dark Matter.

Best in slot for Marksmen are Dark Matter and Mjolnir Runestone, however Mjolnir Runestone only beats out Darkmoon Card: Greatness by "1 DPS" supposedly, according to the spreadsheet.

And I believe third best for Survival is Mjolnir Runestone. So, I wouldn't have passed if I were you. However you didn't pass up a best in slot.

Also, between the two trinkets out of Ulduar listed, if you could only have one, you'd probably want to get Dark Matter.

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Old 05/27/09, 7:49 PM   #542
nosferatu808
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Blackrock
It looks like I'm going to try go MM this week and I was wondering if there is a consensus on the 3rd Glyph for MM...

I see the Aspect of the Hawk in some top builds but also the Kill Shot glyph... is it pretty even between the two?

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Old 05/27/09, 8:45 PM   #543
Kharthus
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Deathwing
Originally Posted by nosferatu808 View Post
It looks like I'm going to try go MM this week and I was wondering if there is a consensus on the 3rd Glyph for MM...

I see the Aspect of the Hawk in some top builds but also the Kill Shot glyph... is it pretty even between the two?
Spreadsheet v89a is showing CS/Srp/Aimed for my gear with Steady Shot next highest and Kill Shot after that.

I'm trying out MM this week too so would also like to know if I'm doing something completely stupid.

Last edited by Kharthus : 05/27/09 at 8:57 PM.

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Old 05/28/09, 5:07 AM   #544
Nakari
Piston Honda
 
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Orc Hunter
 
Destromath (EU)
The 'best' 3rd glyph slot depends largely on the fight in question... on Mimiron or Yogg-Saron, I'd take Kill Shot over everything else, while on the more static fights without too much adds, Steady Shot should be better. Either way, the DPS gain/loss is rather small.

By the way, I think question like that (as well as other gear related questions) should be asked in the spec-threads, this thread is cluttered enough already with discussion about "non-hardmode-BiS".

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Old 05/29/09, 3:46 AM   #545
Grimmarg
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Hunter
 
Doomhammer (EU)
Best non-hardmode MM DPS: 7567.13

Hunter DPS: 6517.52
Pet DPS: 1049.61
RAP: 8388
Crit: 51.93%
Hit: 100.04%
ArP: 244
Glyphs: [Glyph of Chimera Shot], [Glyph of Serpent Sting], [Glyph of Kill Shot]
Shot Queue: RF/SrS/KS/CS/AiS/AS/SiS/Readiness/SS
Spec: 7/57/7
Race: Draenei
Pet: Wolf
Profs: Mining/JC

[Lotrafen, Spear of the Damned]+[Formula: Enchant 2H Weapon - Massacre]
[Conqueror's Scourgestalker Headpiece]+[Arcanum of Torment]+[Relentless Earthsiege Diamond]+[Delicate Stormjewel]
[Broach of the Wailing Night]
[Iron-studded Mantle]+[Greater Inscription of the Axe]
[Drape of the Deadly Foe]+[Enchant Cloak - Major Agility]
[Conqueror's Scourgestalker Tunic]+[Formula: Enchant Chest - Powerful Stats]+[Delicate Scarlet Ruby]+[Delicate Dragon's Eye]
[Frost-Bound Chain Bracers]+[Item not found!]
[Conqueror's Scourgestalker Handguards]+[Enchant Gloves - Major Agility]+[Delicate Scarlet Ruby]
[Belt of the Betrayed]+[Eternal Belt Buckle]+[Delicate Scarlet Ruby]
[Conqueror's Scourgestalker Legguards]+[Icescale Leg Armor]+[Deadly Monarch Topaz]+[Delicate Dragon's Eye]
[Boots of Living Scale]+[Formula: Enchant Boots - Superior Agility]+[Delicate Scarlet Ruby]+[Delicate Dragon's Eye]
[Metallic Loop of the Sufferer]
[Cindershard Ring]
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
[Wrathstone]
[Giant's Bane]+[Heartseeker Scope]
Ammo: [Mammoth Cutters]

Surprisingly not too far off from the Best in Slot Hardmode template that was posted earlier, and I didn't include Blacksmithing since I was just working this out for myself. Adding Blacksmithing would bump the DPS even further.

Also I added the Chimera Shot glyph even though it has no effect with the standard spreadsheet MS, but it is highly preferable to me anyway. Adding a different glyph would further bump the DPS.

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Old 05/29/09, 5:00 AM   #546
Rezdan
Don Flamenco
 
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Nagrand
Grimmarg's setup would see a DPS increase from changing the race to Dwarf (1% crit from guns) since the Draenei buff is one of those that are taken into account for all alliance races.

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Old 05/29/09, 5:42 PM   #547
Zeel
Von Kaiser
 
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Troll Hunter
 
Vek'nilash (EU)
Also we should assume that another hunter would be providing Trueshot Aura in Grimmargs build so that point
can be invested in i.e. Improved Steady Shot for higher dps.

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Old 05/30/09, 7:27 AM   #548
Midnight
Don Flamenco
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Ysera (EU)
First of all, sorry I didn´t get to update faster - I´ve been kind of busy working at my AddOn in my spare time lately.

Now what´s new:
- Most importantly I updated to v89a.
- As proposed by Sean I changed from 200ms to 150ms as default latency so all the dps values will be somewhat higher than the old ones. You´ll have to be careful to set it to 150ms if you work with the default sheet from Shandaras thread where it´s still set to 200ms.
- I also used Argg0s BM templat, followed a few other hints since my last post here and switched the KS glyph with the CS glyph which is superior at 150ms latency.

FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
The optimism of action is better than the pessimism of thought.
- Greenpeace UK

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Old 05/31/09, 5:35 AM   #549
Mr Tazza
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Sylvanas (EU)
My MM dps is actually going down changing latency from 200 to 150, I guess it might have something to do with the rotation (SilS RF SrS CS KS AiS AS SS Readiness, no chimera glyph).

200ms -> 8051.88 DPS
190ms -> 8083.71 DPS
180ms -> 8115.36 DPS
170ms -> 8145.28 DPS
160ms -> 7969.77 DPS
150ms -> 7996.17 DPS
140ms -> 8025.89 DPS
130ms -> 8058.21 DPS
120ms -> 8088.78 DPS
110ms -> 8098.15 DPS
100ms -> 8131.49 DPS
090ms -> 8163.39 DPS

Just checked and doesn't happen with SV, guess I'll look into the rotation.

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Old 05/31/09, 6:18 AM   #550
Midnight
Don Flamenco
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Ysera (EU)
That´s something that should never ever happen in game. Even if the cooldowns don´t line up as good with a lower latency dps you´ll always have the option of using the same rotation you´ve been using with more latency. Obviously the reverse is not true.

In my opinion this only further proves the lack of actual research in the area of shot priorities. As far as I know the latest state of the art in shot priorities is to just use whatever is available and does most damage per GCD with a possible delay for our high damage shots KS, ES and CS. Maybe it´s time to start a thread specifically devoted to shot rotations.

FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
The optimism of action is better than the pessimism of thought.
- Greenpeace UK

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