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05/25/09, 11:29 AM
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#526
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No love for BM?
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Keep in mind that you will no longer be able to use Dragon's Eyes to fill blue/yellow sockets and still get the set bonus. Stick these in red sockets to properly simulate the change on the spreadsheet (for now). Finally managed to cook up an 8000+ DPS MM build, I'll post it later tonight after some more testing.
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05/25/09, 11:55 AM
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#527
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Hunter
Gilneas (EU)
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found a little update for MM nonhardmode:
Change Race to Dwarf, turn Draenei Racial on.
Change Weapn to Giant's Bane and Cloak to Drape of the Deadly Foe.
New DPS: 7461,58
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05/25/09, 7:47 PM
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#528
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Von Kaiser
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Having trouble vizualizing the SS glyph under the posted MM build.
Correct my logic if its wrong, but here goes:
CS glyph makes it 9 seconds instead of 10, that's a 10% decrease in cooldown which equates to a 10% increase in number of CS shot, and roughly a 10% damage increase for CS as a result.
SS glyph increases damage of SS by 10%, simply.
They both give ~10% to their respective shots (assuming your rotation is perfectly fluid and hit capped/etc), so why not use CS glyph since CS will end up doing more damage than SS over the course of a fight?
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05/25/09, 8:22 PM
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#529
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by IceyDevil
Having trouble vizualizing the SS glyph under the posted MM build.
Correct my logic if its wrong, but here goes:
CS glyph makes it 9 seconds instead of 10, that's a 10% decrease in cooldown which equates to a 10% increase in number of CS shot, and roughly a 10% damage increase for CS as a result.
SS glyph increases damage of SS by 10%, simply.
They both give ~10% to their respective shots (assuming your rotation is perfectly fluid and hit capped/etc), so why not use CS glyph since CS will end up doing more damage than SS over the course of a fight?
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Because the spreadsheet applies latency to every gcd. So with the default setting of 200ms latency, it effectively makes every gcd 1.7 sec, which makes chimera shot glyph useless. However, I believe this is not the case as cast bars on client side and server side are unhinged since 2.3 and if you spam the button, they will fire on time even without /stopcasting macro. I've seen chimera shot glyph actually have effect in real life. I believe many players actually do use chimera shot glyph. But for this thread, you'd need to reduce latency to 0 to see the effect of chimera shot glyph.
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05/25/09, 11:01 PM
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#530
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Von Kaiser
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Hmm, I suppose it seems to me that a longer GCD from lag would simply change up your rotation, and using a different rotation would merely reduce the number of extra SS's, leaving your CSes untarnished if you prioritize them (which we are anyway?).
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05/25/09, 11:21 PM
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#531
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Ranzman
found a little update for MM nonhardmode:
Change Race to Dwarf, turn Draenei Racial on.
Change Weapn to Giant's Bane and Cloak to Drape of the Deadly Foe.
New DPS: 7461,58
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Changing from Orc to Dwarf means you'd also have to remove the Orc Racial from the Shot Rotations tab.
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05/25/09, 11:23 PM
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#532
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Ranzman
found a little update for MM nonhardmode:
Change Race to Dwarf, turn Draenei Racial on.
Change Weapn to Giant's Bane and Cloak to Drape of the Deadly Foe.
New DPS: 7461,58
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How does Draenei racial work while being a Dwarf?
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05/25/09, 11:30 PM
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#533
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by DMCASHEW04
How does Draenei racial work while being a Dwarf?
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It's a raid buff. It works the same way as Blessing of Might works while being a hunter.
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05/26/09, 4:00 AM
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#534
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by sihyunie
But for this thread, you'd need to reduce latency to 0 to see the effect of chimera shot glyph.
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That's untrue - you only need to reduce the latency to 150ms from the default 200ms to see an effect on the spreadsheet. It's a pretty big effect too - even at 150ms it easily becomes the best glyph to use in combination with the Serpent Sting glyph. 150ms is also a more reasonable setting and should probably be the default rather than 200ms. 200ms is rather high.
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05/26/09, 1:15 PM
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#536
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Hunter
Gilneas (EU)
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Originally Posted by Rezdan
Changing from Orc to Dwarf means you'd also have to remove the Orc Racial from the Shot Rotations tab.
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is there an option to change the shot rotation or do i have to change all manual?
Originally Posted by Rezdan
Changing from Orc to Dwarf means you'd also have to remove the Orc Racial from the Shot Rotations tab.
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hm... i removed the Blood Fury from position 9 and took none, and the DPS is still 7461,58. Do is miss something?
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05/26/09, 1:55 PM
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#537
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Grummy
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The hit on it is considered 'wasted' by the spreadsheet if you're otherwise hit capped, so the 10man gun gets ranked down. Drop some hit from other places in your gear, and you'll probably see it ranked higher.
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05/26/09, 2:38 PM
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#538
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by lucilebluth
The hit on it is considered 'wasted' by the spreadsheet if you're otherwise hit capped, so the 10man gun gets ranked down. Drop some hit from other places in your gear, and you'll probably see it ranked higher.
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Yes, I factored this in. Disregard my original post, looks like the weapon was fixed in v89. As I had expected, [Magnetized Projectile Emitter] is 2nd BiS for my current gear, behind the much superior [Skyforge Crossbow]. Thanks for the help.
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05/27/09, 12:35 AM
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#539
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Hunter
Cenarius
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Some upcoming changes announced today:
Hunter (3.1 Skills List / 3.1 Talent + Glyph Calc.)
Hunter's Mark: The ranged attack power bonus from this ability has been increased from 300 to 500.
Master Marksman: This talent now also decreases the cost of Aimed Shot and Chimera Shot by 5/10/15/20/25%.
Think I'm going to switch to Marks now and start getting used to the play style.
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05/27/09, 7:31 PM
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#540
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Glass Joe
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BiS Trinkets
So the two BiS trinkets for survival including hard modes are what? I passed Mjolnir Runestone to a rogue last night....
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05/27/09, 7:43 PM
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#541
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Kuf
So the two BiS trinkets for survival including hard modes are what? I passed Mjolnir Runestone to a rogue last night....
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You can download the spreadsheet and check this kind of information out yourself.
However, to quickly help you, the two current best trinkets for a Survival Hunter are Darkmoon Card: Greatness and Dark Matter.
Best in slot for Marksmen are Dark Matter and Mjolnir Runestone, however Mjolnir Runestone only beats out Darkmoon Card: Greatness by "1 DPS" supposedly, according to the spreadsheet.
And I believe third best for Survival is Mjolnir Runestone. So, I wouldn't have passed if I were you. However you didn't pass up a best in slot.
Also, between the two trinkets out of Ulduar listed, if you could only have one, you'd probably want to get Dark Matter.
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05/27/09, 7:49 PM
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#542
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Hunter
Blackrock
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It looks like I'm going to try go MM this week and I was wondering if there is a consensus on the 3rd Glyph for MM...
I see the Aspect of the Hawk in some top builds but also the Kill Shot glyph... is it pretty even between the two?
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05/27/09, 8:45 PM
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#543
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by nosferatu808
It looks like I'm going to try go MM this week and I was wondering if there is a consensus on the 3rd Glyph for MM...
I see the Aspect of the Hawk in some top builds but also the Kill Shot glyph... is it pretty even between the two?
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Spreadsheet v89a is showing CS/Srp/Aimed for my gear with Steady Shot next highest and Kill Shot after that.
I'm trying out MM this week too so would also like to know if I'm doing something completely stupid.
Last edited by Kharthus : 05/27/09 at 8:57 PM.
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05/28/09, 5:07 AM
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#544
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Piston Honda
Orc Hunter
Destromath (EU)
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The 'best' 3rd glyph slot depends largely on the fight in question... on Mimiron or Yogg-Saron, I'd take Kill Shot over everything else, while on the more static fights without too much adds, Steady Shot should be better. Either way, the DPS gain/loss is rather small.
By the way, I think question like that (as well as other gear related questions) should be asked in the spec-threads, this thread is cluttered enough already with discussion about "non-hardmode-BiS".
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05/29/09, 3:46 AM
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#545
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Piston Honda
Worgen Hunter
Doomhammer (EU)
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05/29/09, 5:00 AM
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#546
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Don Flamenco
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Grimmarg's setup would see a DPS increase from changing the race to Dwarf (1% crit from guns) since the Draenei buff is one of those that are taken into account for all alliance races.
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05/29/09, 5:42 PM
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#547
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Von Kaiser
Troll Hunter
Vek'nilash (EU)
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Also we should assume that another hunter would be providing Trueshot Aura in Grimmargs build so that point
can be invested in i.e. Improved Steady Shot for higher dps.
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05/30/09, 7:27 AM
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#548
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Hunter
Ysera (EU)
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First of all, sorry I didn´t get to update faster - I´ve been kind of busy working at my AddOn in my spare time lately.
Now what´s new:
- Most importantly I updated to v89a.
- As proposed by Sean I changed from 200ms to 150ms as default latency so all the dps values will be somewhat higher than the old ones. You´ll have to be careful to set it to 150ms if you work with the default sheet from Shandaras thread where it´s still set to 200ms.
- I also used Argg0s BM templat, followed a few other hints since my last post here and switched the KS glyph with the CS glyph which is superior at 150ms latency.
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FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
The optimism of action is better than the pessimism of thought.
- Greenpeace UK
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05/31/09, 5:35 AM
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#549
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Von Kaiser
Dwarf Hunter
Sylvanas (EU)
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My MM dps is actually going down changing latency from 200 to 150, I guess it might have something to do with the rotation (SilS RF SrS CS KS AiS AS SS Readiness, no chimera glyph).
200ms -> 8051.88 DPS
190ms -> 8083.71 DPS
180ms -> 8115.36 DPS
170ms -> 8145.28 DPS
160ms -> 7969.77 DPS
150ms -> 7996.17 DPS
140ms -> 8025.89 DPS
130ms -> 8058.21 DPS
120ms -> 8088.78 DPS
110ms -> 8098.15 DPS
100ms -> 8131.49 DPS
090ms -> 8163.39 DPS
Just checked and doesn't happen with SV, guess I'll look into the rotation.
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05/31/09, 6:18 AM
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#550
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Hunter
Ysera (EU)
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That´s something that should never ever happen in game. Even if the cooldowns don´t line up as good with a lower latency dps you´ll always have the option of using the same rotation you´ve been using with more latency. Obviously the reverse is not true.
In my opinion this only further proves the lack of actual research in the area of shot priorities. As far as I know the latest state of the art in shot priorities is to just use whatever is available and does most damage per GCD with a possible delay for our high damage shots KS, ES and CS. Maybe it´s time to start a thread specifically devoted to shot rotations. 
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FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
The optimism of action is better than the pessimism of thought.
- Greenpeace UK
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