Best Possible DPS in Shandaras WotLK Spreadsheet - Page 24

DMCASHEW04 · 06/05/09, 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by Shibam

I cant tell, but this may not be better when the JC nerf comes out. Its much easier to achieve the socket bonus with saronite legs then Conqueror's which boosts Saronite legs value. I suppose we should be trying post JC nerf spreadsheets as well, since many socket bonuses will change altering hit and other stats.

The JC nerf is in the next major content patch. We got awhile to not include it here

Eurytos · 06/06/09, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Beachwanderer

Spreadsheet V89b

Hunter DPS 6925.36
Pet DPS 1207.41
Total DPS 8132.77

Race: Orc
Professions: JC/BS
Spec: 6/14/51
Pet: Wolf
Battle Elixir: Elixir of Mighty Agility
Guardian Elixir: Elixir of Mighty Thoughts
Food: Blackened Dragonfin

Glyphs:
Glyph of Explosive Shot
Glyph of Serpent Sting
Glyph of Kill Shot

Rotation Priority:
Kill Shot
Explosive Shot
Black Arrow
Serpent Sting
Multi-Shot
Rapid Fire
Blood Fury
Steady Shot

Main Hand: [Dreambinder] - Massacre (Two Hand) - Glinting Monarch Topaz (8 Agi 8 Hit) - Delicate Dragon's Eye (27 Agi)
Head: [Conqueror's Scourgestalker Headpiece] - Arcanum of Torment - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (21 Agi) - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Neck: [Pendulum of Infinity] - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Shoulders: [Conqueror's Scourgestalker Spaulders] - Greater Inscription of the Axe - Delicate Stormjewel (20 Agi)
Back: [Drape of the Faceless General] - Major Agility - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi) - Glinting Monarch Topaz (8 Agi 8 Hit)
Chest : [Conqueror's Scourgestalker Tunic] - Powerful Stats - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi) - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Wrist: [Frost-bound Chain Bracers] - Greater Assault - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Hands: [Gloves of the Steady Hand] - Major Agility - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi) - Delicate Dragon's Eye (27 Agi) - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Waist: [Belt of the Betrayed] - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Legs: [Conqueror's Scourgestalker Legguards] - Icescale Leg Armor - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi) - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Feet: [Greaves of Swift Vengeance] - Superior Agility - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi) - Delicate Dragon's Eye (27 Agi)
Ring: [Brann's Sealing Ring] - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Ring: Brann's Signet Ring - Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Trinket: [Dark Matter]
Trinket: [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
Ranged Weapon: [Skyforge Crossbow] - Heartseeker Scope
Ammo: [Saronite Razorheads]

Edit: Fixed Typo

Same info but mine came out as 8132.82. Not sure why the slight difference.

brokenarrow · 06/07/09, 10:41 AM

Delete please.

Scotch · 06/07/09, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by brokenarrow

I noticed in the best DPS for MM. If you take out a point in Improved Barrage and place it in Aspect Mastery you get a dps increase.

If you're starting from 7/57/7 then moving one point from MM to BM will not get you Aspect Mastery.

farmcraft · 06/07/09, 11:49 AM

From best SV Template: 8078,24dps (89b)
I have removed Glyph of Explosive Shot. Use Glyph of Steady Shot instead.
New dps is 8086,40.

Eurytos · 06/07/09, 3:00 PM

Originally Posted by farmcraft

From best SV Template: 8078,24dps (89b)
I have removed Glyph of Explosive Shot. Use Glyph of Steady Shot instead.
New dps is 8086,40.

Oddly enough... he is correct.

I'm up to 8141.48 with the previously mentioned setup w/ Glyph of Steady Shot instead of Explosive Shot.

CrowneVict · 06/07/09, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by Eurytos

Oddly enough... he is correct.

I'm up to 8141.48 with the previously mentioned setup w/ Glyph of Steady Shot instead of Explosive Shot.

I had talked about this in the Survival thread a little while ago - It's pretty depressing to have to glyph your worst shot because it's a DPS increase =( I think at a certain crit rating, the ES glyph is just a splash in the bucket.

Scotch · 06/07/09, 3:54 PM

The spreadsheet is making that calculation on the basis of a stand and shoot situation for a default of, what, 5 minutes? Most boss fights are not the stand and shoot situations for 5 minutes - or whatever the default is in the spreadsheet. There is a lot of movement and repositioning involved that increases the value of instant casts and devalues steady shot.

I recommend taking that data with a grain of salt.

Eurytos · 06/07/09, 4:08 PM

Originally Posted by Scotch

The spreadsheet is making that calculation on the basis of a stand and shoot situation for a default of, what, 5 minutes? Most boss fights are not the stand and shoot situations for 5 minutes - or whatever the default is in the spreadsheet. There is a lot of movement and repositioning involved that increases the value of instant casts and devalues steady shot.

I recommend taking that data with a grain of salt.

I completely agree. I'm not switching out my Explosive Shot glyph anytime soon. This is why my spreadsheet is based on how much of my damage comes from what shot and calculates from that instead of a stand-and-shoot rotation simulation. But, it is interesting that in perfect conditions, the Explosive Shot glyph falls behind.

dvorjak · 06/07/09, 5:18 PM

Originally Posted by arlen

Well Efficiency is crap, and this is the Best possible DPS thread which assumes someone else has IHM. No need for two hunters in a raid to have it.

And why exactly do you say that efficiency is crap?

alienangel · 06/07/09, 5:33 PM

Because it brings nothing other than mana cost reduction on shots, and there are better ways to keep your mana flowing - see the multiple analyses of the question already present in threads on this forum.

Drakbak · 06/08/09, 12:04 PM

Marksmanship Build: Spreadsheet version 89e

Hunter DPS 7422.3
Pet DPS 1060.03
Total DPS 8482.33

Race: Orc
Professions: JC/BS
Spec: 7/57/7
Pet: Wolf
Battle Elixir: Elixir of Armor Piercing
Guardian Elixir: Elixir of Mighty Thoughts
Food: Hearty Rhino
NOTE: The spreadsheet is currently bugged and will not count the ArP rating from Hearty Rhino nor Elixir of Armor Piercing. In order to receive the effect, you need to Hand Adjust these on the gear tab for a combined 85 ArP rating.

Glyphs:
Glyph of Serpent Sting
Glyph of Steady Shot
Glyph of the Hawk

Rotation Priority:
Serpent Sting
Silencing Shot
Kill Shot
Chimera Shot
Aimed Shot
Blood Fury
Rapid Fire
Readiness
Steady Shot

Main Hand: [Lotrafen, Spear of the Damned] - Massacre (Two Hand)
Head: [Conqueror's Scourgestalker Headpiece] - Arcanum of Torment - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (21 Agi) - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Neck: [Broach of the Wailing Night]
Shoulders: [Iron-studded Mantle] - Greater Inscription of the Axe
Back: [Drape of the Faceless General] - Major Agility - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP) - Fractured Dragon's Eye (27 ArP)
Chest : [Conqueror's Scourgestalker Tunic] - Powerful Stats - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP) - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Wrist: [Fluxing Energy Coils] - Greater Assault - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP) - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Hands: [Gloves of the Fiery Behemoth] - Major Agility - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Waist: [Belt of the Betrayed] - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Legs: [Legguards of Cunning Deception] - Icescale Leg Armor - Fractured Dragon's Eye (27 ArP) - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP) - Fractured Dragon's Eye (27 ArP)
Feet: [Boots of the Renewed Flight] - Superior Agility
Ring: [Brann's Sealing Ring] - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Ring: [Brann's Signet Ring] - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Trinket: [Dark Matter]
Trinket: [Mjolnir Runestone]
Ranged Weapon: [Skyforge Crossbow] - Heartseeker Scope
Ammo: [Saronite Razorheads]

El Gizmo · 06/08/09, 12:33 PM

DMCASHEW04 · 06/08/09, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by Drakbak

Marksmanship Build: Spreadsheet version 89e

Hunter DPS 7422.3
Pet DPS 1060.03
Total DPS 8482.33

Race: Orc
Professions: JC/BS
Spec: 7/57/7
Pet: Wolf
Battle Elixir: Elixir of Armor Piercing
Guardian Elixir: Elixir of Mighty Thoughts
Food: Hearty Rhino
NOTE: The spreadsheet is currently bugged and will not count the ArP rating from Hearty Rhino nor Elixir of Armor Piercing. In order to receive the effect, you need to Hand Adjust these on the gear tab for a combined 85 ArP rating.

Glyphs:
Glyph of Serpent Sting
Glyph of Steady Shot
Glyph of the Hawk

Rotation Priority:
Serpent Sting
Silencing Shot
Kill Shot
Chimera Shot
Aimed Shot
Blood Fury
Rapid Fire
Readiness
Steady Shot

Main Hand: [Lotrafen, Spear of the Damned] - Massacre (Two Hand)
Head: [Conqueror's Scourgestalker Headpiece] - Arcanum of Torment - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (21 Agi) - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Neck: [Broach of the Wailing Night]
Shoulders: [Iron-studded Mantle] - Greater Inscription of the Axe
Back: [Drape of the Faceless General] - Major Agility - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP) - Fractured Dragon's Eye (27 ArP)
Chest : [Conqueror's Scourgestalker Tunic] - Powerful Stats - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP) - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Wrist: [Fluxing Energy Coils] - Greater Assault - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP) - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Hands: [Gloves of the Fiery Behemoth] - Major Agility - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Waist: [Belt of the Betrayed] - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Legs: [Legguards of Cunning Deception] - Icescale Leg Armor - Fractured Dragon's Eye (27 ArP) - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP) - Fractured Dragon's Eye (27 ArP)
Feet: [Boots of the Renewed Flight] - Superior Agility
Ring: [Brann's Sealing Ring] - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Ring: [Brann's Signet Ring] - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Trinket: [Dark Matter]
Trinket: [Mjolnir Runestone]
Ranged Weapon: [Skyforge Crossbow] - Heartseeker Scope
Ammo: [Saronite Razorheads]

Can we confirm this? All the armor pen is getting me excited

EDIT: First, I noticed you weren't spec'ed into arcane shot then I noticed you don't even include it in the rotation. Even with my, not yet bis, gear I notice arcane being overrun by all my other shots. This makes since seeing how your gemmed all armor pen and this does not buff arcane shot one bit

ajthebest · 06/08/09, 2:16 PM

Originally Posted by Drakbak

Marksmanship Build: Spreadsheet version 89e

Hunter DPS 7422.3
Pet DPS 1060.03
Total DPS 8482.33

Race: Orc
Professions: JC/BS
Spec: 7/57/7
Pet: Wolf
Battle Elixir: Elixir of Armor Piercing
Guardian Elixir: Elixir of Mighty Thoughts
Food: Hearty Rhino
NOTE: The spreadsheet is currently bugged and will not count the ArP rating from Hearty Rhino nor Elixir of Armor Piercing. In order to receive the effect, you need to Hand Adjust these on the gear tab for a combined 85 ArP rating.

Glyphs:
Glyph of Serpent Sting
Glyph of Steady Shot
Glyph of the Hawk

Rotation Priority:
Serpent Sting
Silencing Shot
Kill Shot
Chimera Shot
Aimed Shot
Blood Fury
Rapid Fire
Readiness
Steady Shot

Main Hand: [Lotrafen, Spear of the Damned] - Massacre (Two Hand)
Head: [Conqueror's Scourgestalker Headpiece] - Arcanum of Torment - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (21 Agi) - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Neck: [Broach of the Wailing Night]
Shoulders: [Iron-studded Mantle] - Greater Inscription of the Axe
Back: [Drape of the Faceless General] - Major Agility - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP) - Fractured Dragon's Eye (27 ArP)
Chest : [Conqueror's Scourgestalker Tunic] - Powerful Stats - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP) - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Wrist: [Fluxing Energy Coils] - Greater Assault - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP) - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Hands: [Gloves of the Fiery Behemoth] - Major Agility - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Waist: [Belt of the Betrayed] - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Legs: [Legguards of Cunning Deception] - Icescale Leg Armor - Fractured Dragon's Eye (27 ArP) - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP) - Fractured Dragon's Eye (27 ArP)
Feet: [Boots of the Renewed Flight] - Superior Agility
Ring: [Brann's Sealing Ring] - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Ring: [Brann's Signet Ring] - Fractured Scarlet Ruby (16 ArP)
Trinket: [Dark Matter]
Trinket: [Mjolnir Runestone]
Ranged Weapon: [Skyforge Crossbow] - Heartseeker Scope
Ammo: [Saronite Razorheads]

I, too, would love to know if this is actually possible or is there a bug in the sheet. I also noticed that removing arcane shot increased my personal dps (move 3 points from imp AC to imp Barrage and 1 into ISS).

Drakbak · 06/08/09, 2:18 PM

Originally Posted by DMCASHEW04

Can we confirm this? All the armor pen is getting me excited

I think it would be worth rechecking current builds using the recent update to the spreadsheet as well. I put this build together last week with 89d (or c), and had about 8300. Putting it into 89e seemed to have increased the dps, I'm assuming due to some of the shot rotation calculation that are being added.

My theory on this build to see how good ArP would get if we removed Arcane Shot from the rotation in favor of another steady shot. Steady Shot might have poor tooltip scaling compared to other shots, but the scaling it has with several of the talents/ArP eventually allows it to overcome Arcane Shot (even while talented).

Edit: I also double checked the Armor Penetration calculation, and it appears to be using the correct calculation. I disagree with the way Mjolnir Runestone's effect is calculated, and I believe that it would result in 109.3 less DPS than the spreadsheet shows according to my own calculations.

Alduin · 06/08/09, 5:43 PM

Originally Posted by Drakbak

Marksmanship Build: Spreadsheet version 89e

Hunter DPS 7422.3
Pet DPS 1060.03
Total DPS 8482.33

Race: Orc
Professions: JC/BS
Spec: 7/57/7
Pet: Wolf
Battle Elixir: Elixir of Armor Piercing
Guardian Elixir: Elixir of Mighty Thoughts
Food: Hearty Rhino
NOTE: The spreadsheet is currently bugged and will not count the ArP rating from Hearty Rhino nor Elixir of Armor Piercing. In order to receive the effect, you need to Hand Adjust these on the gear tab for a combined 85 ArP rating.

You stack TOO much ArP (552ArP via gear). Around 426 is the "cap" (36% ArP + Trinket + Sunder Armor + FairyFire). I don't know if the spreadsheet still shows an increase by stacking more ArP but I suggest (from reading warrior and dk forums) that we could also take ArP til 36% and then stack Agility.

Drakbak · 06/08/09, 6:03 PM

Originally Posted by Alduin

You stack TOO much ArP (552ArP via gear). Around 426 is the "cap" (36% ArP + Trinket + Sunder Armor + FairyFire). I don't know if the spreadsheet still shows an increase by stacking more ArP but I suggest (from reading warrior and dk forums) that we could also take ArP til 36% and then stack Agility.

Sunder Armor and Faerie Fire have no bearing on the % of armor penetration you have. I could see the argument that a player would only want to stack enough ArP so that the trinket proc would cap you at 1232 rating (that would be 620 passive rating). At that point though, you need to figure out whether 50% passive ArP @ ~80% uptime, and 100% ArP for about 20% uptime is better than having 75-80% ArP for 100% uptime and trading the trinket out for another DPS trinket.

I went back, and if my personal calculations are correct on how to handle the trinket procs, with the ArP i stacked on my build, Darkmoon Card: Greatness would actually be better than Mjolnir. Alternatively, you could keep Mjolnir and probably reduce some of the ArP rating.

CrowneVict · 06/08/09, 10:19 PM

Well, with this talk of ArPen, I decided what the heck and gave it a go. I dug out old gear out of the bank, whatever I could find with ArPen. Gem'd out my reds. Left the Delicate Dragon's Eyes since I don't have the recipe I need yet.

I even left out Arcane Shot:
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

Which I guess (as of this post) puts me in the top 20 worldwide for hunters on WMO for my quick Archavon test =) It's worth playing with if you have the gear to pull it off - Mine isn't even that great, and I still got 6500 dps.

EDIT: I don't even think we got a BL off since it was on CD.

dangerbird · 06/09/09, 3:22 AM

Originally Posted by CrowneVict

Well, with this talk of ArPen, I decided what the heck and gave it a go. I dug out old gear out of the bank, whatever I could find with ArPen. Gem'd out my reds. Left the Delicate Dragon's Eyes since I don't have the recipe I need yet.

I even left out Arcane Shot:
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

Which I guess (as of this post) puts me in the top 20 worldwide for hunters on WMO for my quick Archavon test =) It's worth playing with if you have the gear to pull it off - Mine isn't even that great, and I still got 6500 dps.

EDIT: I don't even think we got a BL off since it was on CD.

Did you find that the spreadsheet reflected your increased dps with stacking arp?

CrowneVict · 06/09/09, 3:43 AM

Originally Posted by dangerbird

Did you find that the spreadsheet reflected your increased dps with stacking arp?

Unfortunately, I don't have an Office install here at home - I just tried it on a whim. I'll plug the numbers in tomorrow when I get a chance at work.

The key thing to note is that, using the gear in my armory (while the link lasts - server transferring tomorrow) I put up a respectable amount of dps and never fired an Arcane Shot. No blood lust. A couple ArPen BiS pieces there, but the rest just thrown together. That was a pretty big surprise. If this works out as an MM DPS trend, looks like we're back to the good old BC days of needing on leather BiS pieces

Alduin · 06/09/09, 4:00 AM

Originally Posted by Drakbak

Sunder Armor and Faerie Fire have no bearing on the % of armor penetration you have. I could see the argument that a player would only want to stack enough ArP so that the trinket proc would cap you at 1232 rating (that would be 620 passive rating). At that point though, you need to figure out whether 50% passive ArP @ ~80% uptime, and 100% ArP for about 20% uptime is better than having 75-80% ArP for 100% uptime and trading the trinket out for another DPS trinket.

I went back, and if my personal calculations are correct on how to handle the trinket procs, with the ArP i stacked on my build, Darkmoon Card: Greatness would actually be better than Mjolnir. Alternatively, you could keep Mjolnir and probably reduce some of the ArP rating.

I don't know if the runestone has either an internal CD (wowhead doesn't show one) or if it's procced by special shots. If it has no CD and isn't procced by specials its uptime is ~48% (0.85^4 = chance to not procc in 10s, 4autoshots in 10s). Which means that with 620ArP and trinket I have 50% arp over 52% of the time and 100% arp over 48% = 74% in mean.
With your gear you have 894Arp = 72,6% arp over 100% of the time.

I will try to remodel the gear and try out agility food and gems and also the kill shot glyph instead of hawk/ss when I am back home.

dangerbird · 06/09/09, 4:19 AM

Originally Posted by CrowneVict

Unfortunately, I don't have an Office install here at home - I just tried it on a whim. I'll plug the numbers in tomorrow when I get a chance at work.

The key thing to note is that, using the gear in my armory (while the link lasts - server transferring tomorrow) I put up a respectable amount of dps and never fired an Arcane Shot. No blood lust. A couple ArPen BiS pieces there, but the rest just thrown together. That was a pretty big surprise. If this works out as an MM DPS trend, looks like we're back to the good old BC days of needing on leather BiS pieces

I modeled it with my current gear on the spreadsheet - probably nothing bis for arp, just a mishmash of uld/nax25 gear and after switching all gems and removing arcane, and reallocating those points i dropped about 25 dps - from around 7650 to 7625. thats without adjusting any of my current gear. This is probably well within the margin for error for spreadsheet calculations.

However, arp was still showing as less than agi on the value scale, So I reset all the gems to agi, and tried just removing arcane shot and reallocating those points. That brought me to 7669 - the top dps i have seen for myself in current gear.

So, removing arcane is a dps increase, and simplifies rotation, BUT I lose an instant cast, which I appreciate having in uld. Either way, these are interesting developments in refining our specs, gemming, and rotations.

Anindor · 06/09/09, 5:54 AM

Originally Posted by dangerbird

I modeled it with my current gear on the spreadsheet - probably nothing bis for arp, just a mishmash of uld/nax25 gear and after switching all gems and removing arcane, and reallocating those points i dropped about 25 dps - from around 7650 to 7625. thats without adjusting any of my current gear. This is probably well within the margin for error for spreadsheet calculations.

However, arp was still showing as less than agi on the value scale, So I reset all the gems to agi, and tried just removing arcane shot and reallocating those points. That brought me to 7669 - the top dps i have seen for myself in current gear.

So, removing arcane is a dps increase, and simplifies rotation, BUT I lose an instant cast, which I appreciate having in uld. Either way, these are interesting developments in refining our specs, gemming, and rotations.

On the bright side, you can always keep Arcane on your bars and use it when you have to move. The real question I think is that if, on fights with lots of movement, how a spec without Arcane stacking ArP holds against a spec using more traditional stat balance. The more a rotation relies on Steady Shot\Auto-Shot for its DPS, the more it will break down when you have to move a lot.

The difference between the stand-and-shoot(spreadsheet) DPS would have to be high enough to counteract this movement issue.

Drakbak · 06/09/09, 8:49 AM

Originally Posted by Alduin

I don't know if the runestone has either an internal CD (wowhead doesn't show one) or if it's procced by special shots. If it has no CD and isn't procced by specials its uptime is ~48% (0.85^4 = chance to not procc in 10s, 4autoshots in 10s). Which means that with 620ArP and trinket I have 50% arp over 52% of the time and 100% arp over 48% = 74% in mean.
With your gear you have 894Arp = 72,6% arp over 100% of the time.

I will try to remodel the gear and try out agility food and gems and also the kill shot glyph instead of hawk/ss when I am back home.

i don't know how it works, i was relying on the spreadsheet to tell me the approximate uptime, which shows something around a 40sec ICD (maybe 45, i don't remember offhand). It approximated ~50sec between procs which worked out to be close to 20% uptime.

Also, you can't just average out ArP%. It's a gross simplification that while it would be appropriate for static stats like AP and Crit, ArP is much more dynamic and any averaging you do with ArP will result in a poor estimate. If you're going to average out the effect, you need to calculate DPS without the proc, then DPS with the proc and average out your DPS based on the uptime. Since ArP has increasing gains with every point, averaging it out diminishes the overall effect. It is in this respect that I disagree with the way the spreadsheet handles this estimate.