Namarus

I'm a little confused with your math there. What you are saying is that 1 agi > 3.6 AP. I just do not see how agi is better in that case.

 

Eilleye

He is saying that losing the 22 Agi enchant to cloak and the bonus from a profession other than tailoring is an overall dps loss.

 

Argg0

(100 AP - 22 Agi) vs 80 AP

That's what I meant. You can choose to gain 100 average AP while losing 22 Agi by picking Tailoring or you can choose 80 AP (or 40 Agi/ArP/Hit) by picking any other non-engeniering/herbalism profession.

 

jokerfmj

What is the newest spreadsheet version? Someone somewhere said 91b but it's not linked here... Does anyone know if that's correct?

Thanks.

 

Argg0

91a is the newest available on Shandara's topic.

Are people still doing this anyway? I did a quick test and reached 9857.04 dps on the newest version...

Should I bother posting or not? Probably not since the sheet is not yet complete with Coliseum stuff...

 

Crydak

Would be nice though.Tried around a bit and got "only" to 9320 DPS in v91a.

Later you can edit your new Spreadsheet with the new gear

 

ron9

Can you please post it?

It looks like Midnight abandoned this thread, we need someone else willing to maintain it.

 

Midnight

I didn´t abandon this thread I´ve just been really, really busy lately. On the other hand there hasn´t been much in the way of postable specs to begin with anyway - a discussion about ArPen is very interesting but doesn´t really help me finding the best gear.

That beeing said I wouldn´t mind if someone else wanted to take it over. If not though, I guess I´ll create a new baseline sheet for all three specs when a new version with all the datamined colliseum stuff is beeing released.

FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
The optimism of action is better than the pessimism of thought.
- Greenpeace UK

 

Lilbitters

Trying to get an idea of what BiS gear sets will look like in 3.2, I added what I thought might be pretty close via custom gear. Spreadsheet is linked here: Hunter_DPS 91a BiS v1.0

As a troll the BiS setup for me came to this: (Used the same gear for MM, SV, and BM, with with different enchanting/gemming. Below is an example for MM which came out the highest of the 3 specs. However, this version of the spreadsheet doesn't reflect the possible higher Lock and Load proc chance)

Spreadsheet Version:
91a

Settings:
Default
150 ms
Max time to wait for CDs = 0.50s (0.00 for SV and BM)

Major Glyphs:
[Glyph of Serpent Sting]
[Glyph of Steady Shot]
[Glyph of the Hawk]

Minor Glyphs:
[Glyph of Feign Death]
[Glyph of Mend Pet]
[Glyph of Revive Pet]

Talent Spec:
07/57/07

Pet Family:
Wolf

Pet Talent Spec:
Ferocity

Pet Rotation:
Furious Howl
Bite

Buffs:
All except Heroic Presence
[Blackened Dragonfin]
[Flask of Endless Rage]
[Spiced Mammoth Treats]

Shot Rotation:
Serpent Sting
Silencing Shot
Rapid Fire
Chimera Shot
Kill Shot
Aimed Shot
Berserk
Readiness
Steady Shot

Gear:
Main Hand - Hellion Glaive (Heroic)
Yellow Socket 1 - Deadly Ametrine (10 Agi, 10 Crit)
Red Socket 2 - Delicate Dragon's Eye (34 Agi)
Enchant - Massacre (Two Hand)

Head - Windrunner's Headpiece of Triumph (Heroic)
Enchant - Arcanum of Torment
Meta Socket 1 - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (21 Agi)
Yellow Socket 2 - Deadly Ametrine (10 Agi, 10 Crit)

Neck - Charge of the Eredar (Heroic)
Red Socket 1 - Delicate Dragon's Eye (34 Agi)

Shoulders - Pauldrons of the Devourer
Enchant - Greater Inscription of the Axe
Yellow Socket 1 - Deadly Ametrine (10 Agi, 10 Crit)

Back - Sylvanas' Cunning
Enchant - Major Agility
Red Socket 1 - Delicate Dragon's Eye (34 Agi)

Chest - Windrunner's Tunic of Triumph (Heroic)
Enchant - Powerful Stats
Red Socket 1 - Delicate Cardinal Ruby (20 Agi)
Yellow Socket 2 - Deadly Ametrine (10 Agi, 10 Crit)

Wrist - Bracers of the Silent Massacre (Heroic)
Enchant - Greater Assault
Yellow Socket 1 - Deadly Ametrine (10 Agi, 10 Crit)
Prismatic Socket - Delicate Cardinal Ruby (20 Agi)

Hands - Windrunner's Handguards of Triumph (Heroic)
Enchant - Major Agility
Yellow Socket 1 - Deadly Ametrine (10 Agi, 10 Crit)
Prismatic Socket - Delicate Cardinal Ruby (20 Agi)

Waist - Waistguard of Deathly Dominion (Heroic)
Enchant - Eternal Belt Buckle
Yellow Socket 1 - Deadly Ametrine (10 Agi, 10 Crit)
Red Socket 2 - Delicate Cardinal Ruby (20 Agi)
Prismatic Socket - Delicate Cardinal Ruby (20 Agi)

Legs - Windrunner's Legguards of Triumph (Heroic)
Enchant - Icescale Leg Armor
Blue Socket 1 - Nightmare Tear (+10 to all stats)
Red Socket 2 - Delicate Cardinal Ruby (20 Agi)

Feet - Greaves of Ruthless Judgment (Heroic)
Enchant - Superior Agility
Yellow Socket 1 - Deadly Ametrine (10 Agi, 10 Crit)
Yellow Socket 2 - Deadly Ametrine (10 Agi, 10 Crit)

Ring 1 - Band of Callous Aggression (Heroic)
Blue Socket 1 - Delicate Cardinal Ruby (20 Agi)

Ring 2 - Planestalker Band (Heroic)
Yellow Socket 2 - Deadly Ametrine (10 Agi, 10 Crit)

Trinket 1 - Death's Choice (Heroic)

Trinket 2 - Mjolnir Runestone

Ranged Weapon - Fezzik's Autocannon
Enchant - Heartseeker Scope
Yellow Socket 1 - Deadly Ametrine (10 Agi, 10 Crit)

Ammo - Mammoth Cutters


Cumulative Stats:
Armor = 9508
Strength = 356
Agility = 2788
Stamina = 1888
Intellect = 884
Spirit = 186
+AP = 3494
Crit = 1341
Hit = 236
Mp5 = 109
Resil = 0
Pen = 573
Haste = 184

Spreadsheet DPS Values:
Hunter DPS = 9663.60
Pet Dps = 1228.50
Total DPS = 10892.10
Ranged Critical Hit Chance vs. Level 83 = 69.34%
Ranged Hit Chance vs. Level 83 = 100.20%

Recalculated DPS from fixing [Mjolnir Runestone] Proc:
No Proc = 10614.27
With Proc = 12327.82
Average = 10955.10

 

Alduin

I hope its legal if I post my "best DPS" not with the spreadsheet but Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer (online applet of the spreadsheet)

Some points:
-We will sure not need Mjolnir if I have seen it right cause we will break the ARP Cap by gear.
-We will reach around 10k DPS with BiS Gear.
-I had to adjust some gear settings and used the MMO-champion data insteed of Wowhead which leads to some handadjusting like Collar of Unending Torment and Silver Assassins Gloves.
-I used JC and Alchemy so with BS I guess it will become a lot more "easier" to get the Cap.
-It assumes 25HM and 10HM loot to reach the cap.

11069DPS ARP Cap by gear

Hand adjusts for
Silver Assasin Gloves (10HM) and
[ old version: Collar of Unending Torment (10HM) (mmo-champion version)]

WTB Classic WoW community.

Hand over your chocolate cookies and noone gets hurt!
- Cookie "Monster" Monster (Choco, Peru, 1845)

 

Crydak

Is it a typo at the hit rating?Or am I just plain stupid?

 

Alduin

The answer is 42 or 1 point in Focused Aim

WTB Classic WoW community.

Hand over your chocolate cookies and noone gets hurt!
- Cookie "Monster" Monster (Choco, Peru, 1845)

 

Crydak

Nvm then.

 

Lilbitters

One error I did catch was that you are using Death's Choice (Heroic) and Death's Choice.
Although not all website tooltips are listing it correctly, if you look at the Item level 245 Death's Choice it says:
"Unique: Death's Choice (1)"

Which a few other things like rings also have so that you can't have the 258 and 245 version (or 245 and 232) even though the items do not share the same Item ID. Kinda like Stormjewels.

However, I'll go ahead and try this in the spreadsheet as a troll and see what numbers I come up with.


Edit: Uploaded a new BiS Spreadsheet (v1.1)
Added a 4th profile for MM BiS ArP capped by gear (1224 passive). Changes from my normal MM build are:
-Small talent point change (-1 Point from Trueshot Aura, -1 Point from Rapid Recuperation, +2 Points to Focused Aim)
-Almost all gems to [Fractured Cardinal Ruby] (2 [Fractured Dragon's Eye] in Main Hand, 1 [Nightmare Tear] in helm, 1 [Delicate Dragon's Eye] in neck)
-[Hearty Rhino] instead of [Blackened Dragonfin]
-Gloves changed to Sunreaver Assassin's Gloves (Heroic)
-Chest changed to Crusader's Dragonscale Breastplate
-[Mjolnir Runestone] changed to [Dark Matter]

New average DPS: 11111.78 (156.68 higher than DPS avarage from soft capping ArP)

 

Alduin

I double used it cause the current "2nd" best used it (first best is also mine with a mistake after reaching the ARP cap). I don't know how this will work, we will see it if someone gets the possibility to use both.
But I doubt that the site is using an older spreadsheet version, also many items aren't neither listed at wowhead nor mmo or in different versions (like the 10HM neck).
But ARP Cap and around 11k DPS shows where we go. It was also a side-question if we use femaledwarf to open our "discussion" to not-microsoft user and for a better overview since dl-"playing"-ul kinda sucks and is not really funny. Most people just ask for the gear so...

Will play around with the spreadsheets tomorrow...

WTB Classic WoW community.

Hand over your chocolate cookies and noone gets hurt!
- Cookie "Monster" Monster (Choco, Peru, 1845)

 

Rezdan

We can't guarantee that the online applet and the actual spreadsheet are 100% identical, and even Rivkah suggests that they're not identical, so I would suggest sticking with the Spreadsheet as stated in the OP. It should just be a matter of time before Midnight lets us know the "official" decision on this.

 

Alduin

@lilbitters:

You forgot to add the 2Fractured DE. Add them and change 1 Fractured Cardinal to a Delicate Cardinal and you end up with 11175DPS as troll and around 11217DPS as orc.
-Edit: My mistake, I did't see the main hand..-
-Edit2: But you could change the ring from custom to band of Callous Aggression(h), is already in the spreadsheet.-

Another point: Anyone knows how the serpent sting crits influences chimera shot?

WTB Classic WoW community.

Hand over your chocolate cookies and noone gets hurt!
- Cookie "Monster" Monster (Choco, Peru, 1845)

 

Lilbitters

That's strange, my spreadsheet shows me using all 3 Dragon's Eyes (2 Fractured, 1 Delicate). I re-downloaded it from my rapidshare link and it has all 3 on the MM (ArP cap from gear) profile too.

When you did that change, what was your total ArP?

I show 1224 ArP

Red Gems 24
Yellow Gems 1
Blue Gems 1

 

Hond

I have been doing some reading here and although the spreadsheet confirms it - agility food being the best food for MM - im still curious as to how this is calculated. Since MM has Chimera shot in its rotation im wondering if it is taken into account that spell power buffs this very shot, which i doubt. It may not a be a big buff but for MM-hunters focussed on agility i strongly doubt the outcome.

Further more, for all I know, crit% has diminishing returns. In my case, being MM with 45% crit unbuffed i think it's better to eat the feast and get the full load of attack-power PLUS a small buff to spell-power.

Im saying this because the best possible dps-setup (exluding 3.2 / T9-gear for now) focussed on agility has roughly the same stats and thus should have likewise issues.

Please your replies on my findings.




!!This claim was not written for ArP-focussed setups!!

 

Korghal

What? You seem very outdated with your claims on spellpower. Back in vanilla Blizzard "fixed" magical shots, so that they do not scale with spell power, altough they do scale with buffs+debuffs that increase spell damage %.

Other than that, the only choice you have versus agility food would be AP, which is worth less. Check the spreadsheet for specific values.

Lastly, diminishing returns on crit? Do you have any facts to back this up?

As a note, don't pull stuff out of hats. If you wish to make a claim on a theory, back it up with findings or testing.

 

Hond

As for the spellpower, i apologize.
Concerning diminishing returns: Critical strike - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Not too many hats here, just doubts and my own findings.

 

Atlantya

This is already trumped by the best dps spec. I went to allot fo research to come to this from the boilers plate 53/11/7. It's not an improvement of the best it's my work before I discovered I could use this ;-) The assumptions are hypothetical and only give the picture of why.

why 53/12/6 is better

When trying to tweak the 3.1 BM spec for a few more dp I noted that taking 1 point from Survival Instincts and adding it to Go for the Throat netter be a nice dps gain in the spreadsheet. Here's my analysis of why.

Assumptions:
- Arcane shot every 10 seconds steady shot every 2 seconds (500 seconds) damage bonus from crit 1500
- 25 focus = 300 damage
- My Ranged crit is 25%

SI + 1 yeilds +2% crit to arcane. (500 seconds=1 crits) = +1500 Damage (+3dps)
SI + 1 yeilds +2% crit to Steady Shot (500 seconds=5 crits) = +7500 Damage (+15dps)

500 seconds Arcane shot(50) + steady shot(250) = 300 shots
300 * .25(crit) = 75crits
GftT Procs 75 x 300 = +22,500 (+45dps)

 

Korghal

The article on wowwiki seems a bit... confused by the different terms. There is no diminishing returns on crit or hit (if there was, it would be impossible to cap hit and/or crit, which is not the case).

By the hat I meant that we need more fact to work on your theories, such as WWS, math etc, instead of just statements.

Unless we can prove that your findings are correct, the spreadsheets tells the truth, or as close as one can come to it.

 

Lilbitters

I'd have to say that this isn't exactly true. The first point in GftT is clearly vital for pets to their abilities without being focus starved as natural pet focus regeneration isn't sufficient.

The second point in GftT may or may not be needed depending on the hunter's raid-buffed Critical Strike Rating, which changes the actual value of each point of the talent.

A quick modeling shows this:
(Disclaimer: The following assumes the hunter and pet are both attacking a single target for a 1 minute duration without moving)
Normal pet focus regeneration is 20 per 4 seconds.
For simplicity, we'll say the hunter shoots 1 shot per second (spreadsheet shows .97 for my current gear and 1.19 for BiS MM after factoring in haste effects).

Crit => Focus return per 4 seconds from points in GftT 1/2 (2/2)
25% => 25 (50)
50% => 50 (100)
75% => 75 (150)

The pet global cooldown for special abilities is 1.25.
Focus dump abilities such as Bite cost 25 Focus.

In 60 seconds, a pet can use it's focus dump up 48 times. (60 / 1.25 = 48)
48 focus dumps cost 1,200 focus. (48 x 25 = 1200)
Natural regeneration in 60 seconds would be 300. (20 x 60 / 4) = 300)
900 focus needs to be generated from GftT in 60 seconds. (1200 - 300 = 900)
15 focus needs to be generated per second from GftT. (900 /60 = 15)

Crit => Focus return per 1 second from points in GftT 1/2 (2/2)
25% => 06.25 (12.50)
50% => 12.50 (25.00)
75% => 18.75 (37.50)

At 25% Critical Strike Rating, the hunter's pet will be focus starved even with 2/2 Go for the Throat.
At 50% Critical Strike Rating, the hunter's pet will be -slightly- focus starved with 1/2 Go for the Throat (and waste 10 focus per second with 2/2).
At 75% Critical Strike Rating, the hunter's pet will be wasting 3.75 focus per second (and 22.5 focus per second at 2/2).

With 1/2 Go for the Throat =>Ideal stats for not wasting focus, nor being starved, would be 60% raid-buffed Critical Strike Rating.
With 2/2 Go for the Throat =>Ideal stats for not wasting focus, nor being starved, would be 30% raid-buffed Critical Strike Rating.

 

MacGruff of Hakkar

Theory crafting aside; nothing beats actual observation, and data dumping after fights (WWS, Recount)

At this level, re-talenting costs you, what? A few dailies? I bumped down from 2/2 and put that point back into Hunting Party, and lost no actual (total Hunter+Pet) DPS in raid.