Best Possible DPS in Shandaras WotLK Spreadsheet - Page 39

♦ Tobin · 10/07/09, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Flouyd

I change 3 gems and got 10826.55

Change the rotation to Sp/SilS/AiS/CS/KS/SS and you get 10854.78 DPS.

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Seles · 10/07/09, 2:21 PM

Originally Posted by Tobin

Yes, this is a bit of tangent, but it's worth mentioning to people who might consider using glyphs that aren't optimal for their gear. A couple of issues steer me away from using those glyphs outside of the intentions of this thread.

1) Right now the spreadsheet favors Aimed-Chimera-4xSteady for just about any MM hunter in Ulduar/ToC gear. Using both glyphs to maintain a Chimera priority would be counter-intuitive.

2) Using just the Aimed glyph reduces the stable MM rotation to a priority system. I'm currently using the TSA glyph with the Aimed first rotation, which couples nicely with ISS procs and Piercing Shots in terms of synergy. Not only is a priority system just one more thing to think about, but you will end up splitting ISS procs between Aimed and Chimera this way.

3) The existing rotation works nicely in terms of cooldown alignment, especially if you have Kill Shot down to 9s. Your rotation under 20% will look like this after a couple of reps: Aimed-Chimera-Kill Shot-3xSteady. You do push back Kill Shot by a second, but that is inevitable. It's more practical than trying to weave Steady and Kill Shot around Chimera and Aimed.

I consider the Kill Shot and Serpent Sting glyphs no-brainers for encounters that matter. That leaves one major glyph slot for Aimed, Hawk, TSA, or whatever. Because I subscribe heavily to the basic KISS principle, I elected to keep the rotation over a priority system and went with TSA. If I wanted to use a priority system, I would main spec SV... At my level of gear progression, using the combination of Chimera/Aimed glyphs is a DPS loss.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems from this post you are implying that using imp steady shot procs on aimed shot is superior than using them on chimera shot? I do not see how this could be true.

Aimed shot is 112% weapon damage + 457 physical damage with an extra 10% crit chance (added in barrage modification). Chimera shot is a straight up 125% weapon nature damage. It'd take nearly 80%+ armor penetration for aimed to outdamage chimera shot with the current gear I have (which, while not best possible dps level, is still decent enough to pull 9300 on the spreadsheet.) And since Chimera has a better damage mod, it scales better as well.

Taking a look at my damage yesterday on heroic beasts, I was doing cs > ais, which resulted in:
Chimera - 4028 hit, 10400 crit
Aimed - 2870 hit, 7662 crit

Even assuming imp ss procced for every chimera shot, cs would still be outdamaging ais.

So ... why would the spreadsheet suggest that aimed is superior to use that proc on?

Balkaz · 10/07/09, 2:32 PM

Aimed Shot is superior to use the proc on because it has a higher chance to critically hit, which means the Improved Steady Shot boost is more likely to contribute to your Piercing Shots bleed.

Seles · 10/07/09, 2:49 PM

Originally Posted by Balkaz

Aimed Shot is superior to use the proc on because it has a higher chance to critically hit, which means the Improved Steady Shot boost is more likely to contribute to your Piercing Shots bleed.

I went through my parse again, found that I had 16 imp steady shot procs the entire fight and 51 chimera shots total, so modified (un-imp ss'ed) chimera damage: ( World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis is the parse if you're interested)
3847 noncrit, 9933 crit.

I recognize that aimed crits more, lets say that your base crit rate is 70%.

So aimed shot damage -
20% chance of 2870, 80% chance of 7662 + PS ticks (2299+30% mangle = 2989)
Chimera shot damage -
30% chance of 3847, 70% chance of 9933 + PS ticks (2980+30% mangle = 3874)

Ais = 574 + 8520 = 9094 expected damage
Cs = 1151 + 9646 = 10797 expected damage

----

So unless my gear is -way- off the mark, the expected damage of aimed shot, even including the 10% higher crit rate, is slightly less than 20% lower than chimera shot's expected damage, at least for me.

Balkaz · 10/07/09, 3:08 PM

The gap between your Aimed Shot crit chance and your Chimera crit chance is 22% with 3/3 Improved Barrage and the TSA glyph. Redoing the weighted average for your Aimed Shots with the 22% gap rather than a 10% gives a final Aimed Shot value of 10,027.

I tried swapping their order in the spreadsheet based on my current gear and got a gain of 254 damage for the Aimed and CS pair by firing the Aimed first.

Without the TSA glyph, the difference isn't going to be wide enough to justify the switch, but with it, Aimed comes out ahead.

Edit: Added more detail and corrected 2 transposed digits.

Seles · 10/07/09, 3:28 PM

Originally Posted by Balkaz

The gap between your Aimed Shot crit chance and your Chimera crit chance is 22% with 3/3 Improved Barrage and the TSA glyph. Redoing the weighted average for your Aimed Shots with the 22% gap rather than a 10% gives a final Aimed Shot value of 12,094.

Assuming for the moment that I'll use a TSA glyph -

Aimed - 8% chance of 2870 + 92% chance of 7662 + PS (2989) = 230+ 9799 = 10029 - still falls a bit short of chimera shot.

Also, due to the spell queuing system, even with 100+ ms ping and crappy frame rates, I'm seeing significantly more damage boost from using the cs/ais glyphs - even *if* TSA were to make aimed shot slightly superior, I probably wouldn't use it anyway, but this is just starting to mix in opinions in a factual thread so I'll stop.

silversword · 10/07/09, 3:31 PM

The AiS/CS ISS gain difference is quite small, so is it worth loosing ISS buff in order to keep them for AiS only? wouldn't we gain dps by firing a AiS-StS*2-CS-StS*2 rotation in order to reduce the ISS overwriting loss and thus improving long-run dps?

Balkaz · 10/07/09, 3:49 PM

Originally Posted by Seles

Assuming for the moment that I'll use a TSA glyph -

Aimed - 8% chance of 2870 + 92% chance of 7662 + PS (2989) = 230+ 9799 = 10029 - still falls a bit short of chimera shot.

Also, due to the spell queuing system, even with 100+ ms ping and crappy frame rates, I'm seeing significantly more damage boost from using the cs/ais glyphs - even *if* TSA were to make aimed shot slightly superior, I probably wouldn't use it anyway, but this is just starting to mix in opinions in a factual thread so I'll stop.

The other big thing I'm noting is that you have a little over 500 Armor Pen, and two trinkets that are boosts to attack power rather than armor pen, which skews your personal results in favor of Chimera Shot. My investigation into swapping to Aimed first involved a little more Armor Pen and now that the soft cap is higher, using both ArP trinkets, which skews my results in favor of Aimed Shot.

Tragos · 10/07/09, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by silversword

The AiS/CS ISS gain difference is quite small, so is it worth loosing ISS buff in order to keep them for AiS only? wouldn't we gain dps by firing a AiS-StS*2-CS-StS*2 rotation in order to reduce the ISS overwriting loss and thus improving long-run dps?

Hmmm, you may be onto something. If ISS procs twice during the steadyx4 portion of the rotation, the 2nd proc is wasted. Given AiS and CS as roughly as valuable to use the proc on, I think that the rotation you suggested may actually be a dps gain.

Am I missing something?

alienangel · 10/07/09, 3:56 PM

You're not missing anything, but you're discussing something the spreadsheet can't really model on its default mode of not randomizing ISS procs. If you want to randomize ISS (and other) procs you need to average the results of a large number of iterations of the shot rotation simulation. It also varies a lot based on whether you're going for one of the stable Nx steady, 1xChim/Aimed rotations with a non-zero wait time specified or a more dynamic priority rotation with 0 wait and either aimed or chimera at higher priority than the other (currently for me, glyphing both and firing aimed at higher priority with no waiting for anything is highest DPS).

At the end of the day this is better suited to simcraft rules than the Best DPS Spreadsheet.

Also, none of this argument about what various people are getting for their personal mean aimed/chimera damage has anything to do with this thread.

sihyunie · 10/09/09, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Flouyd

I change 3 gems and got 10826.55

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(H)</Wrist #1><Wrist #2>None</Wrist #2><Wrist #3>Bracers of the Silent Massacre (H)</Wrist #3><Wrist #4>Bracers of the Silent Massacre</Wrist #4><Wrist #5>Crusader's Dragonscale Bracers</Wrist #5><WristEnchant>Greater Assault</WristEnchant><Melee #1>Edge of Agony (H)</Melee #1><Melee #2>None</Melee #2><Melee #3>Hellion Glaive (H)</Melee #3><Melee #4>Edge of Agony (H)</Melee #4><Melee #5>Twin's Pact (H)</Melee #5><MeleeEnchant>None</MeleeEnchant><OffHand #1>None</OffHand #1><OffHand #2>None</OffHand #2><OffHand #3>None</OffHand #3><OffHand #4>None</OffHand #4><OffHand #5>None</OffHand #5><OffHandEnchant>None</OffHandEnchant><Gloves #1>Gloves of the Steady Hand</Gloves #1><Gloves #2>None</Gloves #2><Gloves #3>Sunreaver Assassin's Gloves (H)</Gloves #3><Gloves #4>Gloves of the Steady Hand</Gloves #4><Gloves #5>Windrunner's Handguards of Triumph (H)</Gloves #5><GlovesEnchant>Major Agility</GlovesEnchant><Waist #1>Waistguard of Deathly Dominion</Waist #1><Waist #2>None</Waist #2><Waist #3>Waistguard of Deathly Dominion (H)</Waist #3><Waist #4>Waistguard of Deathly Dominion</Waist #4><Waist #5>Belt of the Pitiless Killer (H)</Waist #5><Legs #1>Windrunner's Legguards of Triumph</Legs #1><Legs #2>None</Legs #2><Legs #3>Windrunner's Legguards of Triumph (H)</Legs #3><Legs #4>Windrunner's Legguards of Triumph</Legs #4><Legs #5>Windrunner's Legguards of Conquest</Legs #5><LegsEnchant>Icescale Leg Armor</LegsEnchant><Feet #1>Boots of Living Scale</Feet #1><Feet #2>None</Feet #2><Feet #3>Greaves of Ruthless Judgment (H)</Feet #3><Feet #4>Icewalker Treads (H)</Feet #4><Feet #5>Boots of Living Scale</Feet #5><FeetEnchant>Icewalker</FeetEnchant><Rings #1>Dexterous Brightstone Ring</Rings #1><Rings #2>Planestalker Band</Rings #2><Rings #3>Dexterous Brightstone Ring</Rings #3><Rings #4>Planestalker Band (H)</Rings #4><Rings #5>Band of Callous Aggression (H)</Rings #5><RingsEnchant>None</RingsEnchant><Trinkets #1>Banner of Victory</Trinkets #1><Trinkets #2>Darkmoon Card: Greatness</Trinkets #2><Trinkets #3>Death's Choice (H)</Trinkets #3><Trinkets #4>Death's Choice</Trinkets #4><Trinkets #5>Banner of Victory</Trinkets #5><Ranged #1>Death's Head Crossbow (H)</Ranged #1><Ranged #2>None</Ranged #2><Ranged #3>Death's Head Crossbow (H)</Ranged #3><Ranged #4>Fezzik's Autocannon</Ranged #4><Ranged #5>Widebarrel Flintlock (H)</Ranged #5><RangedEnchant>Heartseeker Scope</RangedEnchant></Optimizer>

Head: 10 Agi & 10 Crit
Neck: 20 ArP
Chest: 10 Agi & 10 Crit
Waist: 10 to all stats

I got 10831.45 dps by moving the Nightmare Tear in the waist to legs and putting in deadly ametrine in the waist yellow socket. I'm not sure how to post a gear string, but if someone tell me how, I'll edit the post later.

Kevybevy · 10/09/09, 5:28 PM

Originally Posted by sihyunie

I got 10831.45 dps by moving the Nightmare Tear in the waist to legs and putting in deadly ametrine in the waist yellow socket. I'm not sure how to post a gear string, but if someone tell me how, I'll edit the post later.

I'm just curious, how do you even use "gear strings"? I've seen them posted around, but could never find how to use them.

Jagobah · 10/09/09, 6:51 PM

Originally Posted by Kevybevy

I'm just curious, how do you even use "gear strings"? I've seen them posted around, but could never find how to use them.

Open up the Spreadsheet, go to the Overview tab, scroll down all the way to the bottom. Copy and paste the gear strings into the box you see there, and then click Import. The information is loaded into the Gear, Talents, Buffs, etc... so if you want to save all that into a profile, switch over to the Gear tab to save it.

Whalehunt · 10/11/09, 8:35 AM

Originally Posted by Tobin

Change the rotation to Sp/SilS/AiS/CS/KS/SS and you get 10854.78 DPS.

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Attack>0</Shark Attack><Wild Hunt>1</Wild Hunt></Ferocity><Tenacity><Cobra Reflexes>0</Cobra Reflexes><Charge>0</Charge><Great Stamina>0</Great Stamina><Natural Armor>0</Natural Armor><Spiked Collar>0</Spiked Collar><Boar's Speed>0</Boar's Speed><Blood of the Rhino>0</Blood of the Rhino><Pet Barding>0</Pet Barding><Avoidance>0</Avoidance><Guard Dog>0</Guard Dog><Lionhearted>0</Lionhearted><Thunderstomp>0</Thunderstomp><Grace of the Mantis>0</Grace of the Mantis><Great Resistance>0</Great Resistance><Last Stand>0</Last Stand><Taunt>0</Taunt><Roar of Sacrifice>0</Roar of Sacrifice><Intervene>0</Intervene><Silverback>0</Silverback><Wild Hunt>0</Wild Hunt></Tenacity></Talents></Pet><Buffs><Hunter><Greater Blessing of Kings><Value>Yes</Value><Modifier></Modifier></Greater Blessing of Kings><Greater Blessing of Might><Value>Rank 5</Value><Modifier>Improved 2/2</Modifier></Greater Blessing of Might><Battle Shout><Value>Rank 9</Value><Modifier>Com. 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Insp.><Value>Yes</Value><Modifier></Modifier></Ret Aura & Feroc. Insp.><Replenishment (Uptime)><Value>Yes</Value><Modifier>1</Modifier></Replenishment (Uptime)><Abo. Might & Unl. Rage><Value>Yes</Value><Modifier>1</Modifier></Abo. Might & Unl. Rage><Draenei racial (not you)><Value>No</Value><Modifier></Modifier></Draenei racial (not you)><Scroll><Value>No</Value><Modifier>None</Modifier></Scroll></Hunter><Personal><1>Hearty Rhino</1><2>Elixir of Armor Piercing</2><3>Elixir of Mighty Thoughts</3><4>None</4><5>None</5><6>None</6></Personal><Pet><Greater Blessing of Kings><Value>Yes</Value><Modifier></Modifier></Greater Blessing of Kings><Commanding Shout><Value>Yes</Value><Modifier>Com. Pres. 5/5</Modifier></Commanding Shout><Greater Blessing of Might><Value>Rank 5</Value><Modifier>Improved 2/2</Modifier></Greater Blessing of Might><Battle Shout><Value>Rank 9</Value><Modifier>Com. 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Insp.><Draenei racial (not you)><Value>No</Value><Modifier></Modifier></Draenei racial (not you)><Scroll of Strength><Value>No</Value><Modifier>None</Modifier></Scroll of Strength><PetFood>Spiced Mammoth Treats</PetFood></Pet><Target><Judgment of Wisdom><Value>Yes</Value><Modifier></Modifier></Judgment of Wisdom><Heart of the Crusader><Value>Yes</Value><Modifier>Improved 3/3</Modifier></Heart of the Crusader><Curse of Elements><Value>Rank 6</Value><Modifier></Modifier></Curse of Elements><Sunder Armor Stacks><Value>Yes</Value><Modifier>5</Modifier></Sunder Armor Stacks><Curse of Weakness><Value>Yes</Value><Modifier></Modifier></Curse of Weakness><Hunter's Mark (not you)><Value>Yes</Value><Modifier>Both</Modifier></Hunter's Mark (not you)><Mangle & Trauma><Value>Yes</Value><Modifier>1</Modifier></Mangle & Trauma><Blood Frenzy & Savage Combat><Value>Yes</Value><Modifier>1</Modifier></Blood Frenzy & Savage Combat><Earth and Moon stacks><Value>Yes</Value><Modifier></Modifier></Earth and Moon stacks><Faerie Fire><Value>Yes</Value><Modifier></Modifier></Faerie Fire></Target></Buffs><Rotation><Aspect>Dragonhawk</Aspect><Latency>150</Latency><Hunter Rotation><1>Serpent Sting</1><2>Silencing Shot</2><3>Blood Fury</3><4>Rapid Fire</4><5>Aimed Shot</5><6>Chimera Shot</6><7>Kill Shot</7><8>Readiness</8><9>Steady Shot</9></Hunter Rotation><Pet Rotation><1>Furious Howl</1><2>Bite</2></Pet Rotation></Rotation><Settings><Red DPS gem>Fractured Cardinal Ruby (20 ArP)</Red DPS gem><Use Dragon's Eyes>Yes</Use Dragon's Eyes><Preferred Dragon Eye>Fractured Dragon's Eye (34 ArP)</Preferred Dragon Eye></Settings><Optimizer><Helm #1>Windrunner's Headpiece of Triumph</Helm #1><Helm #2>None</Helm #2><Helm #3>Windrunner's Headpiece of Triumph (H)</Helm #3><Helm #4>Windrunner's Headpiece of Triumph</Helm #4><Helm #5>Windrunner's Headpiece of Conquest</Helm #5><HelmEnchant>Arcanum of Torment</HelmEnchant><Neck #1>Collar of Unending Torment (H)</Neck #1><Neck #2>None</Neck #2><Neck #3>Collar of Unending Torment (H)</Neck #3><Neck #4>Charge of the Eredar (H)</Neck #4><Neck #5>Collar of Unending Torment</Neck #5><Shoulders #1>Pauldrons of the Devourer</Shoulders #1><Shoulders #2>None</Shoulders #2><Shoulders #3>Pauldrons of the Devourer</Shoulders #3><Shoulders #4>Windrunner's Spaulders of Triumph (H)</Shoulders #4><Shoulders #5>Pauldrons of the Shadow Hunter (H)</Shoulders #5><ShouldersEnchant>Greater Inscription of the Axe</ShouldersEnchant><Back #1>Cloak of the Untamed Predator</Back #1><Back #2>None</Back #2><Back #3>Sylvanas' Cunning</Back #3><Back #4>Cloak of Serrated Blades</Back #4><Back #5>Cloak of the Untamed Predator</Back #5><BackEnchant>Major Agility</BackEnchant><Chest #1>Cuirass of Cruel Intent (H)</Chest #1><Chest #2>None</Chest #2><Chest #3>Cuirass of Cruel Intent (H)</Chest #3><Chest #4>Vest of Shifting Shadows (H)</Chest #4><Chest #5>Windrunner's Tunic of Triumph (H)</Chest #5><ChestEnchant>Powerful Stats</ChestEnchant><Wrist #1>Bracers of the Silent Massacre (H)</Wrist #1><Wrist #2>None</Wrist #2><Wrist #3>Bracers of the Silent Massacre (H)</Wrist #3><Wrist #4>Bracers of the Silent Massacre</Wrist #4><Wrist #5>Crusader's Dragonscale Bracers</Wrist #5><WristEnchant>Greater Assault</WristEnchant><Melee #1>Edge of Agony (H)</Melee #1><Melee #2>None</Melee #2><Melee #3>Hellion Glaive (H)</Melee #3><Melee #4>Edge of Agony (H)</Melee #4><Melee #5>Twin's Pact (H)</Melee #5><MeleeEnchant>None</MeleeEnchant><OffHand #1>None</OffHand #1><OffHand #2>None</OffHand #2><OffHand #3>None</OffHand #3><OffHand #4>None</OffHand #4><OffHand #5>None</OffHand #5><OffHandEnchant>None</OffHandEnchant><Gloves #1>Gloves of the Steady Hand</Gloves #1><Gloves #2>None</Gloves #2><Gloves #3>Sunreaver Assassin's Gloves (H)</Gloves #3><Gloves #4>Gloves of the Steady Hand</Gloves #4><Gloves #5>Windrunner's Handguards of Triumph (H)</Gloves #5><GlovesEnchant>Major Agility</GlovesEnchant><Waist #1>Waistguard of Deathly Dominion</Waist #1><Waist #2>None</Waist #2><Waist #3>Waistguard of Deathly Dominion (H)</Waist #3><Waist #4>Waistguard of Deathly Dominion</Waist #4><Waist #5>Belt of the Pitiless Killer (H)</Waist #5><Legs #1>Windrunner's Legguards of Triumph</Legs #1><Legs #2>None</Legs #2><Legs #3>Windrunner's Legguards of Triumph (H)</Legs #3><Legs #4>Windrunner's Legguards of Triumph</Legs #4><Legs #5>Windrunner's Legguards of Conquest</Legs #5><LegsEnchant>Icescale Leg Armor</LegsEnchant><Feet #1>Boots of Living Scale</Feet #1><Feet #2>None</Feet #2><Feet #3>Greaves of Ruthless Judgment (H)</Feet #3><Feet #4>Icewalker Treads (H)</Feet #4><Feet #5>Boots of Living Scale</Feet #5><FeetEnchant>Icewalker</FeetEnchant><Rings #1>Dexterous Brightstone Ring</Rings #1><Rings #2>Planestalker Band</Rings #2><Rings #3>Dexterous Brightstone Ring</Rings #3><Rings #4>Planestalker Band (H)</Rings #4><Rings #5>Band of Callous Aggression (H)</Rings #5><RingsEnchant>None</RingsEnchant><Trinkets #1>Banner of Victory</Trinkets #1><Trinkets #2>Darkmoon Card: Greatness</Trinkets #2><Trinkets #3>Death's Choice (H)</Trinkets #3><Trinkets #4>Death's Choice</Trinkets #4><Trinkets #5>Banner of Victory</Trinkets #5><Ranged #1>Death's Head Crossbow (H)</Ranged #1><Ranged #2>None</Ranged #2><Ranged #3>Death's Head Crossbow (H)</Ranged #3><Ranged #4>Fezzik's Autocannon</Ranged #4><Ranged #5>Widebarrel Flintlock (H)</Ranged #5><RangedEnchant>Heartseeker Scope</RangedEnchant></Optimizer>

Changing the enchant of feet from Icewalker to Superior Agility, DPS increases to 10862.07.

Kluian · 10/12/09, 8:18 PM

How is the steady shot glyph bugged? I just tested it on a target dummy (hunter marked) and I'm getting the 10% increase in damage as expected.

arlen · 10/12/09, 8:21 PM

The glyph is not bugged, the Marksmen talent Marked for Death is what's bugged. It gives you the +10% even if you don't have the glyph.

Kluian · 10/12/09, 8:31 PM

So its only bugged on crits? The glyph gives 10% increased dmg on hit, but on crit you receive the 10% from the talent, and not the glyph?

Ninaev · 10/12/09, 9:27 PM

Originally Posted by Kluian

So its only bugged on crits? The glyph gives 10% increased dmg on hit, but on crit you receive the 10% from the talent, and not the glyph?

If you have Marked for Death talent it's like you already have the glyph, you can freely use something else.

Kluian · 10/12/09, 9:53 PM

Originally Posted by Ninaev

If you have Marked for Death talent it's like you already have the glyph, you can freely use something else.

Yeah I just re-tested it guess it is still bugged. Surprising you still see some hunters in top PvE guilds still using this glyph.

Midnight · 10/13/09, 10:31 AM

I guess it´s about time I updated this thread once again. It´s featuring the latest version 92a now. I also tried to get the best possible set from all those posts since my last one here. Unfortunatly nobody posted anything about BM and SV so I did just some minor updates like including the non-heroic Death's Choice and some regemming for those. As always feel free to report any more improvements you can find within the rules set in the OP.

Ranzman · 10/14/09, 3:27 PM

i get 10794,55 dps when im loading best MM profile. whats the mistake?

Midnight · 10/14/09, 10:37 PM

The spreadsheet doesn´t save the Max time to wait for CDs per profile. Try setting it to 0,60s and run the rotation again.

Bluesfear · 10/22/09, 5:45 PM

I get 10545.98 for Best DPS SV when I went 1/3 EW and 3/3 resourcefulness.

Bovii · 10/22/09, 6:35 PM

I get 10552.83 for best dps SV when I go 1/3 EW and 3/3 Resourcefulness while switching out the +20 hit gem in the BRK-1000/Fezzik's Autocannon with a +10 AGI/+10 HIT gem.

Gutchewa · 10/23/09, 8:52 AM

Inaccurate information, delete.