You are not using rotation test results instead of frequencies.

I have some questions about gems. In the spreadsheet i keep getting different results wether or not to use 10ag/10crit or 20ag in yellow sockets where the socket bonus gives 4agility. Its the Shoulder, Gloves and Ring, that has theese sockets, and im currently running 20agility gems in those. When i do swap the gems i get the following results:
10ag/crit @ ring: 2 total-dps increase (2 up)
10ag/crit @ shoulders: 1,7 total-dps increase (0,3 down)
10ag/crit @ gloves: 4,7 total-dps increase. (3 up)
Even though the socket bonuses are the same. How come the 2nd 10ag/crit dont give an increase too?

No mather what order i swap them in, the 2nd armor with that gem always decrease my dps gain, while the 1st and 3rd give an increase. Im gonna swap my gems, because this is obviously a slight increase if i swap all 3, but still, im confused about this.

(Im using the usual meta-gem, plus nightmare tear and a 10ag/crit in the head sockets to activate the meta-gem. And its always activated during my tests on the other gems here.)

<scratch this post, been corrected>

I believe it's 4% per talent points. So 4x3=12%. If you put 15%, then it' 45%.

That just means you're at the theoretical break point where AGI and Crit are giving you the same benefit either way. If a 5 dps up on the spreadsheet is worth the gems for you, go for it. Honestly, real play won't really reflect just a minor variation, but knock yourself out.

With aforementioned Expose Weakness change to 1/3 and Resourcefulness to 3/3
Glyph of Aimed Shot changed to Glyph of Kill Shot
Aforementiond Food+Flask Changes Blackened Dragonfin
Flask of Endless Rage
Aforementioned Gun gem change to Glinting Ametrine
Any Deadly Ametrine changed to Glinting Ametrine


Survival DPS @10688.03


Also the Survival test as mentioned is set to use frequencies instead of rotation test results. Is this the way we want to be doing this or should Survival also use the rotation test result like MM?

I see. I was expecting a constant increase/decrease in dps due to the same socket bonuses etc. But that explains it, thanks for clearing that up.

NEW Survival Best DPS at 10704.70 with the following changes summarize:

- Expose Weakness change to 1/3 and Resourcefulness to 3/3
- glyph of Aimed Shot changed to Glyph of Kill Shot
- Food+Flask Changes to Blackened Dragonfin and Flask of Endless Rage
- Gun gem change to glinting ametrine
- and one of deadly amertrine is changed to glinting amertrine
- 2h enchant massacre


EDIT: fixed after Tobin's comment

Did you switch the hunter to an Alliance race in your profile? All the previous highest DPS profiles have used the Orc racial, and they have no access to Heroic Presence.

Also in the BM template the enchant for Hellion Glaive is set to Greater Savagery - Massacre would make the DPS go up to 9779,29.

An "awesome" DPS increase for BiS BM: Use 2x Deadly instead of Wicked. Increase: 0,28DPS
Another increase by spending 1 point into Mortal Shots 4/5 instead Invigoration: DPS is 9826,72
And last but not least: Change the legs to Lurking Threat with Nightmare Tear, Deadly Ametrine and Delicate Cardinal Ruby. (9832.86 DPS).

PS: The change to Massacre results in 9848.02 DPS
PPS: Change the neck to Charge of the Eredar + 34AGI Gem. DPS: 9855.79.

For whatever reason the spreadsheet that is included in the main post of this thread doesn't >seem< to be modeling the BM gear and talents correct. i.e. inexplainable pet value changes when adjusting gems and things of the like.

I would suggest trying to implement your things in the latest up to date spreadsheet and/or post your gear strings if you are trying to get anywhere.

Just a short question: Black Arrow implementation?
I wanted to toy with my spec a bit and used the femaledwarf version of the spreadsheet for once. Switching between points in Resourcefulness and points into Improved Stings, with no concern for mana regeneration, gives what I see as odd results though. After starting at 3/3 Resourcefulness and 0/3 Improved Stings, going for 2/3 Res. + 1/3 IS gives a 50 DPS increase or so (best raid buffs and debuffs enabled); going onward, 1/3 Res. + 2/3 IS further increases that by 30 DPS. 0/3 Res. + 3/3 IS decreases DPS by 50+.

I cannot see any variable that would have an exponential effect in all this, it's just a 2 seconds shaved off Black Arrow cooldown for a 10% Serpent Sting damage increase each time; if anything, Serpent Stings critical strikes (tier 9 2 parts set bonus) should hit harder and harder. Black Arrow is prioritized over everything but Kill Shot and Explosive Shot of course.
Thought perhaps it is tied to a specific fight length, but anything from 2 minutes to 12 gives the exact same results. Hunting Party was at 2/3.

Now, same conditions, but having Rotation test enabled, gives small DPS decreases (-20, -15) when going from 3/3 Res. + 0/3 IS to 2/3 Res. + 1/3 IS and 1/3 Res/ + 2/3 IS respectively, and a large +50 DPS when reaching 0/3 Res. + 3/3 IS. Which makes more sense. But the surge in DPS seems a bit too big.

The best result is obtained at 2/3 IS + 0/3 Res. + placing the extra point into Hunting Party for 3/3 by the way. A 40+ DPS increase over 3/3 IS + 0/3 BA (Rotation test enabled). Or at 1/3 IS + 1/3 Res. + 3/3 HP (Rotation test disabled).

Could someone explain me why I get much more dps when I remove Lock and Load from the talents?

My dps goes all over the place. It can sometimes be as low as 1800 but it seems to stay right around the 2200 - 2600 range. I know some of this is probably due to when I have sniper training and when i dont.

Here is the armory link for me: The World of Warcraft Armory

Can you look me over and make suggestions on what i need to change to get my dps higher? I see other hunters getting up over 3k and would like to get mine up also.

My pet is a wolf from down in Crystalsong Forest.

Shot rotations is: hunters mark, black arrow, explosive shot, serpent sting, steady shot, aimed, arcane/multi, and kill shot when ready.

I'm running H ToC everyday trying to get the True-aim Long rifle.

I use saronite arrows with my crossbow and I have the heartseeker scope on it.

Let me know if there is more info needed.

Please make suggestions on anything that needs changing, glyphs, shot rotations whatever.

Thank you guys for any help you can give me.

Well looking at your gemming its clear you dont realise agility is king when it comes to SV, you also only need 263hit so replace every gem u can with +20agility or +34agility gems apart from the +10agility and +10crit gem due to the socket bonus its worth leaving this.

As for shot rotation id have a priority as follows, kill shot if possible then exp shot then black arrow then aimed shot then serpent sting and then steady shot, whenever a higher prority shot comes of cooldown shoot that, SV is all about prioritising shots.
Ony other thing id suggest is if u get lock and load wait until its finished ticking on ur target before firing another.
Oh and swap glyph of mending with kill shot glyph, as SV ur pets pretty squidgy anyway so ur better of using a dmg increasing glyph.

Any plans on updating the spreadsheet? at least with all of the items attainable from toc

Why exactly would you fire Aimed before Serpent Sting ? SS is more damage per execute, applies a 3% damage debuff and with 2x t9 its superior to Aimed. A proper prio order should look like KS-ES-BA-SS-AimS-Steady. You can check SampleOutputT9Hunter - simulationcraft for a rough comparison in dpe values.

Zod's Repeating Longbow has the potential to be cool, but my napkin math shows it being a bit disappointing. To be fair, this is early, early napkin math based on what we have and it may change.

My current estimated DPS in spreadsheet (ilvl 258 Death's Head Crossbow): 9683.26 (obviously your mileage will vary, I'm just trying to look for a general degree as to how good this will be for "typical" gear).

With Zod's stats (before proc): 9642.78
And now for the proc, pulling shot frequency from the spreadsheet:
1.18 shots per second
frequency: .847
average time to proc: .847*(1/.04)=21.175 seconds
50% weapon: 2242
Proc DPS: 2242/21.175=105.88

Total DPS upgrade going from 258 Death's Head/Talonstrike to 264 Zod's: 65.4

An upgrade, but a weak one. Looking back, the difference between Skyforge and Talonstrike (245) was a much bigger percentile increase (in fact even the additive gain was larger). It's a shame because the proc had a lot of potential for this weapon; the best "stat" you can get isn't agi or arp but weapon damage. This proc was kind of a way of adding additional weapon damage in the form of a proc in place of other stats.

What I think really harms this weapon is that it's so fast. They obviously normalized the speed because of the proc. If it were a 3 second weapon it would be a 133.69 DPS increase for me (which is still a smaller percent upgrade than skyforge-talonstrike was for me).

Something which will need consideration for its total upgrade DPS is the synergy with 2-set Tier 10 bonus:
Which lends towards having a faster weapon speed if I am not mistaken.

A faster speed does not have a tremendous impact on uptime for the 2pc (nor does the relative value of haste increase by much). For Marks at least, a slower weapon for harder hitting aimed and chimera shots will still be more desirable.

Which got me thinking whether this (the set-bonus) could be an attempt to improve the value of haste. Not using the actual spreadsheet, tbh (religious OpenOffice user), so pulled Ensidia's Hunax into the online approximator, changed all Arpen to JC haste gems and assumed ((20 * autoshotspeed - 10) * 1 + 10 * 1.15)/(20 * ass) as multiplier. With full buffs/debuffs enabled, this leads to

10239.92 for Arpen
10225.29 for Haste

My math might be funny and ofc this doesn't include future stats but I don't see that haste becomes more than competitive.