Danzou

You can put any gem anywhere. But if u want the socketbonus then ull have to put blue purple or green gem...

 

Shibam

Could someone please tell me the proper way to use the spreadsheet (if anyone even knows) and what is more accurate.

I have all my gear preloaded with a 2 hander, when I switch it out for 2x1handed weapons i get a dps of 4766 (raid buffed survival). When I load gear then from armory (exact same gear just reloading it) I get 4801. Then if i reset gear, reset talents, reset buffs and reload each one, reading from armory, I get 5377. I believe it has something to do with how the spreadsheet calculates talents and buffs, probably the ones based on percentages of stats.

EDIT: What I mean is, what is the most accurate order to load information.

Just some additional info the hopefully helpds, with the 5377dps load, I can clear raid buffs and it shows my accurate agility total. In the first instance I explained of swapping the 2h for 2 1handers it doesnt give me a correct total agility unbuffed, its lower. Perhaps everytime im in a raid i need to not only swap the gear but reset buffs and talents too? It seems their bonuses don't get applied.

 

Rezdan

Shibam, questions about use of the spreadsheet should be in the WotLK Spreadsheet thread, not here.

 

Schanaha

It's not so much of a DPS-increase, as we're talking about just 2 DPS, but this BM-spec is quite a little bit better as the one in your actual version of the spreadsheet:
53/12/6

Won't make the big difference, but poor BM's as me are running for any DPS-Point they can get. *sniff*

The Glyph of Bestial Wrath brings another 8-DPS-increase.

 

Apulu

I am not sure if you tried my setup with LW instead of BS but it gives higher dps then Vaxum. It is also a better way to gear up for horde players since they wont get dranei aura and the gear setup for alliance (Vaxum's post) will always be worse then the one I gave without aura (for trolls and belfs as well).

v82 spreadsheet: 6807.84 dps (Hunter: 5627.55, Pet: 1180.29).
This is with LW and JC. All I did ws download the excel from first page and change the chest and legpiece, change race to orc and add Blood Fury to rotation under Rapid Fire.

 

Sore82

I noticed that people are using Elixirs of Agi/Int over a Flask in their max DPS spreadsheets, however when I compare the two on my spreadsheet, the Flask is coming out ahead by around 8-10 DPS. I have tried to mimic all the buffs/debuffs that the OP put up, however I still get the same result. Is their something I might be missing?

 

Rezdan

When you say on your spreadsheet, do u mean with your gear setup? Because of course the value of agi/int over AP would be directly related to your spreadsheet setup...

 

Sore82

Well, I was using "my" spreadsheet that I had downloaded from the original spreadsheet thread (using my gear). I tried to mimic the buffs/debuffs listed on the front of this thread but for whatever reason, using a Flask was still giving me more benefit than the elixirs. However, after downloading the spreadsheet from this thread (the one provided on the front page), and loading all my gear and everything, it switched - so now elixirs give more than the flask. So, im somewhat confused but ill try and go line by line and see where the issue was in my original spreadsheet compared to the one I downloaded from this thread.

Ill tell ya though, messing with the spreadsheet can get addicting...ive been sitting here for like 3 hours changing out gear pieces, gems and enchants to try and find what the max DPS I can get from all the different gear pieces/combos I have currently available to me. Its like some sick game.

 

Rezdan

The value of agi/int/ap will reflect your current gearing. It is not a spreadsheet bug thats resulting in Flask > Agi/Int but the reality.

The spreadsheet on this thread fixes some of the variables that can swing the value of these stats one way or another. For example reducing Replenishment uptime, speccing out of thrill of the hunt, and increasing fight length to values over 5min can significantly increase the value of int because of the need to use Aspect of the Viper.

 

Sore82

Well, on my original spreadsheet, I had my gear/talents and all that jazz loaded just the same as the one from this thread. My current build is 6/14/51, so I already do not have Hunting Party (did you mean this as opposed to Thrill of the Hunt?). So, I know my gearing/geming was not what was causing the issues...I would have to assume it was some setting for something like Viper (which, I cant say I really every use as SV spec...especially if we have a Ret in the raid). So, not sure if thats what might be skewing the numbers (giving more value to Int than might be necessary if you are not needing it due to things like a Retadin in the raid).

But its always fun when you get 1 good upgrade during the week, and because of that, you have to go through all your gear and swap pieces in and out until you find the perfect combo that works. Thats pretty much what I have been doing. Im still waiting on about 3 best in slot pieces, and ill be done, thank god.

 

Rezdan

No, I do mean Thrill of the Hunt. Take a look at the talent and you should be able to see how it affects your DPS. Anyway, this was just an *example* and may not be the real reason why the elixirs were valued over/under the flask.

If you have your gear loaded and your talents, it will of course be different than the gear on this OP and the talents on this OP and therefore it will result in different Stat Values. That is why for you the flask may have been better than the elixirs.

I think you may be mis-understanding how this class works if you don't realize that gear differences can result in different optimal gear as stated by the spreadsheet.

 

Sore82

I guess, I dont really see where else you would be putting points besides Thrill of the Hunt. I see how it can affect my DPS, but I dont really see how using that as an example here would mean anything. I have 3/3 Thrill of the Hunt, the OP has 3/3 Thrill of the Hunt...what exactly am I missing here?

My gear is all but 3 pieces different than what the OP has loaded as "best in slot" for max DPS. Were not talking like my max DPS now is somewhere like 3k DPS difference...were talking less than 200 DPS difference with my current gear. Im not loading my gear onto the OPs talents or vice-versa, im loading MY gear, with MY talents onto both "versions" of the spreadsheet (the one on the front of this thread, and the original one on the original thread).

Were talking about a buff or something I missed - not talents or gear. If you load all of the exact same "best in slot" gear/talents into the original spreadsheet (the spreadsheet found here WotLK DPS spreadsheet ), and do nothing to the buffs, a Flask will come out as higher DPS than elixirs. As I said in my first post - obviously its some setting regarding buffs that I missed somewhere when I was trying to mimic the spreadsheet found in this thread while using the original, "normal" spreadsheet.

I think you may have misunderstood what I was talking about...at least I hope so. Stating something like that to me is pretty uncalled for. Ive been around the block plenty of times in regards to the Hunter class - more than you I will guess. Just because I may not 100% fully understand every detail and piece of code the went into making the spreadsheet, that should hold no value as my knowledge towards playing a Hunter.

 

Rezdan

You stated that you loaded the spreadsheet with your gear and attempted to mimic the buffs/debuffs in the BIS post. You then stated that for you the flask was coming out better.

My point is that those three different pieces of gear coupled with different settings (not just buffs but all settings) could very well have been the reason the flask was valued over/under the elixirs. I gave an example of how settings OUTSIDE of buffs/debuffs can drastically change the value of certain stats just as an example, not as the reason why it was different in your specific case.

Edit: 2nd half

From this thread OP:
Values to optimize:

Glyphs

Professions

Range to Target

Gear

Talents

Buff consumables

Shot rotations

Pets/Pet talents/Pet rotations

Now, we've already established that the Gear was different but that Buffs were the same. Assuming everything else mentioned here was the same, those three pieces of different gear could very well have been the reason the flask was valued over/under the elixirs.

 

Sore82

The flask was coming out better when I used the original spreadsheet, when I tried to mimic the general settings laid out by the OP (such as consumables, target range and other things that one could easily change). When I use the spreadsheet found on this thread, using my same gear/talents and such, the Elixirs come out higher. Obviously, it is not a gear or talent that is making the Elixirs come out above Flasks - at least not for me. Its a specific buff or, something else that is different.


I think you are still not understanding what I am saying. Here, just do this...load up the original spreadsheet (WotLK DPS spreadsheet) and enter in all of this threads OPs best in slot gear and talents. Then go and swap between using elixirs and using a flask - a flask comes out ahead. So, in the original spreadsheet, a flask is coming out ahead, however in the spreadsheet linked in this thread, elixirs are coming out ahead. The leaves the only possible solution to be a buff or some setting that is causing the difference. Again, I tried to mimic the setting laid out in this thread on the original spreadsheet, however I cant produce the same results as just using the one provided in this thread.

 

Midnight

Just wanted to drop in and say that I´ve not forgotten this thread. I´m curently kind of busy preparing for some exams next week. I´ll try to get the start post back up-to-date next weekend.

FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
The optimism of action is better than the pessimism of thought.
- Greenpeace UK

 

Rezdan

Remember, the BIS in THIS thread is using v82 of the spreadsheet. v83b is the Latest version.

 

dssurge

Shouldn't we be updating to the newest version of the spreadsheets for more accurate numbers?

Assuming Hunters are ever fundamentally changed, using an old spreadsheet to purpose a gear set seems silly. May as well nip it in the bud early and simply assume the previous BiS set is still best, run the numbers in the new sheet, and go from there.

 

TrevvyTrev

Particularly when there is a bug in the sheet that affects at least one template: http://elitistjerks.com/1083582-post1500.html

The BM template (post #33) is affected by this (and to be fair, this was suspected as a bug by the poster).

 

Vaxum

Give it time, Midnight already said the plan is to update the OP this weekend.

I expect/hope this includes a move to the latest spreadsheet, but I'll point out that when Shandara releases a new "major" version of the spreadsheet it usually goes through a week or two of rapid updates as bugs get found & fixed. Case in point, v83 was released a week ago and we're now up to v83c - so letting a new version "bake" a bit before moving to it actually makes sense.

The BM template was clearly a little hinky, since it left obvious DPS on the table. I suspect if BM had been a more interesting DPS spec, someone would have bothered to find an optimal gear/spec setup for it already. As it happens, I was working up a better BM template when I hit & investigated the Arcanum of Ferocity bug. Since the BM template is bugged in v82 and Midnight hasn't blessed a new version, I just shelved the work.

 

Rickjizzle2

Double check the fight length and the assumed AotV up time in completing your shot rotation in your spreadsheet. If your time to oom is less then 300s then you would need to switch aspects. The more int, the less you're in viper and the more you regen while in viper.

In practice, there are not really any fights that warrant AotV, so the value of the added Intellect is diminished. I'm sure with the potential of longer Ulduar fights, we'll also have some class changes as well to remodel. For min/maxing in game 3.0.8, I'm confident the flask would win out. For the 5 minute fight of the spreadsheet, the double elixir wins.

 

Midnight

The OP is up-to-date again. As there have been quite a few changes to it all of the DPS numbers changed a bit so I couldn´t use them to validate the transfer to the new sheet. I hope I didn´t introduce any errors in the process. If you find any or got an idea for improvemet - let me know.
I also used the opportunity to switch the MM and SV templates to BS instead of LW as this functionality has been implemented into the latest version of the spreadsheet.

FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
The optimism of action is better than the pessimism of thought.
- Greenpeace UK

 

Esoth

Minor update to Vaxum's SV and MM entries: they are both using 8 stats to chest instead of 10.

 

Midnight

Yeah well, I figured he wouldn´t actually want to use the second best chest enchant and used the powerful stats enchantment instead already. It might be best if you just downloaded the spreadsheet I linked in the OP and check it for flaws directly.

FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
The optimism of action is better than the pessimism of thought.
- Greenpeace UK

 

Vec

Very small upgrade for survival, but if you change the gem in Blue Aspect Helm from 8agi/8hit to 16agi, change the chest to valorous chest, change the legs to Leggings of Failed Escape, and boot enchant from icewalker to 16agi, you increase the expected dps from 6576.57 to 6576.95.

 

Midnight

Updated the spreadsheet accordingly and verfied that it does indeed yield an incredible 0.38 DPS upgrade even though it´s 9 hit rating over the cap. :P
I also removed the "based on X template" line for SV, because quite honestly I don´t really know who to attribute it to anymore. Vaxxum created the baseline template but it has changed quite a bit since then.
On a sidenote - I guess in real world performance it´s just a matter of personal preference or availability if you pick [Valorous Cryptstalker Tunic] + [Leggings of Failed Escape] or [Chestguard of Flagrant Prowess] + [Valorous Cryptstalker Legguards]. Both combinations seem to be close enough to not really make a significant difference when playing.

FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
The optimism of action is better than the pessimism of thought.
- Greenpeace UK