SimulationCraft for Hunters - Page 10

chinoquezada · 02/19/11, 4:42 PM

Originally Posted by Gavinas

I've updated Simcraft svn trunk to include the 160% weapon damage nerf also affecting the RAP coefficient to be 1.6*0.724. Including the AoTH buff this does nerf AiS damage from ~48.8k avg to ~45.5k avg in the BiS 372 gear set. Despite this it is still a net buff to the spec, and the AiS rotation is still simming higher than the Arcane Shot rotation by ~2k dps.

Could you please update the info at this link with the changes detailed in the quote? Also, please put a link to it at Welcome to SimulationCraft main page.
I'm unsure if you are the one who handles this though.

Althor · 02/20/11, 1:00 AM

Originally Posted by chinoquezada

Could you please update the info at this link with the changes detailed in the quote? Also, please put a link to it at Welcome to SimulationCraft main page.
I'm unsure if you are the one who handles this though.

I was the one who created that report and uploaded it. I didn't provide a link to it from the front page as the numbers hadn't been tested in game yet. I am still trying to determine exactly what the changes will entail.
When we are more confident on exactly how the changes are modeled I'll update the report and provide a link to it.

Althor · 02/21/11, 12:43 AM

After testing mechanics in game (on a level 12 hunter alt) I think we now have Aimed Shot modeling correct in SimulationCraft (for level 85's anyway, other levels will have to wait until the next patch).

I re-ran the Hunter profiles and they can still be found at Simulationcraft Results

Carlaena · 02/22/11, 5:59 AM

Amazing work going on here.

Having spent quite some time trying to get up to speed with simcraft, am I seeing what appears to be some odd usage of lock and load?

I've ran multiple tests, and they all seem to match with the result parses in this thread.

Sometimes Explosive Shots get launched in pairs, back-to-back (green circles)
at other times they get launched with pairs inbetween them (red circles)
I cant see any usage that matches the commonly used ES-CoS-ES-XS-ES pattern

Perhaps I am analysing this in the wrong manner,

dedmonwakeen · 02/22/11, 7:20 AM

We probably need to check the flight-time of ES. At high haste values the sim thinks it is still in-flight at the time of the next "what-am-i-going-to-do-now" check. A simple "if=!ticking" is insufficient. We probably need to change it to: "if=!ticking&!in_flight"

EDIT: Adding the "in_flight" checked net me about 120dps

Lilyana · 02/23/11, 1:46 AM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

We probably need to check the flight-time of ES. At high haste values the sim thinks it is still in-flight at the time of the next "what-am-i-going-to-do-now" check. A simple "if=!ticking" is insufficient. We probably need to change it to: "if=!ticking&!in_flight"

EDIT: Adding the "in_flight" checked net me about 120dps

It is not currently possible to overwite a tick providing there is an instant between explosive casts, for example you could have theoretically zero "travel time" (adds on pillars at nefarian strike me as a good example), but providing you cast an arcane you wouldn't be able to overwrite it.

Would it be instead more accurate to just put a minimum delay for it rather than travel time since travel time may be less than a second?

chinoquezada · 02/27/11, 12:36 AM

In accordance to Whytefist's analysis on the top MM rotation, I'm trying to come up with the action sequence that simulates this in SimCraft.
What needs to be simulated, as stated in the MM thread, is the following:

CA Phase: AI hardcast is the focus dump always - the 60% crit bonus makes it too good to pass up especially since hasted during a lot of this phase.

Standard, Termination, and KS Phase:
- AS as the focus dump when not under large dynamic haste effects (RF or BL)
- AI hardcast when under large dynamic haste effects (the faster cast times make AI higher DPS and closes the gap some on Sic'Em procs)

So far, this is what I've come up with:

actions=flask,type=winds
actions+=/food,type=seafood_magnifique_feast
actions+=/hunters_mark
actions+=/summon_pet
actions+=/tolvir_potion,if=!in_combat|buff.rapid_fire.react|target.time_to_die<=60
actions+=/auto_shot
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/aspect_of_the_hawk,moving=0
actions+=/aspect_of_the_fox,moving=1
actions+=/use_item,name=bloodthirsty_gladiators_chain_gauntlets
actions+=/serpent_sting,if=!ticking&target.health_pct<=80
actions+=/rapid_fire,if=!buff.bloodlust.up|target.time_to_die<=30
actions+=/chimera_shot,if=target.health_pct<=80&(!buff.rapid_fire.up|!buff.bloodlust.up)
actions+=/steady_shot,if=buff.improved_steady_shot.remains<5
actions+=/kill_shot
actions+=/readiness,wait_for_rapid_fire=1
actions+=/aimed_shot,if=buff.master_marksman_fire.react
actions+=/aimed_shot,if=focus>=80&(target.health_pct>80|buff.rapid_fire.up|buff.bloodlust.up)
actions+=/arcane_shot,if=focus>=66&cooldown.chimera_shot.remains>0&target.health_pct<=80&(!buff.rapid_fire.up|!buff.bloodlust.up)
actions+=/arcane_shot,if=cooldown.chimera_shot.remains>=5&(!buff.rapid_fire.up|!buff.bloodlust.up)
actions+=/steady_shot

Getting the following simcraft results (prio also shown):

After an initial look, it all seems fine to me but I would appreciate the input if anything seems missing. (I'm pretty new at simcraft)
Take note that this sim is done with my current gear and not a 372 bis chardev profile.

Edit: After running with the BiS 372 profile, I noticed less DPS than hardcasting which led me to believe I had made a mistake in the code. And, indeed I had: my code isn't stopping CS or AS from being cast during rapid_fire/bloodlust, it does stop AI from hardcasting when not in rapid_fire/bloodlust.

alienangel · 02/27/11, 1:04 AM

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding Whytefist's post, is the intention that we only hardcast AI sub 80% when BOTH RF and Bloodlust are up? I was thinking we should hardcast even when either one of those two are up. If the former ignore the rest of my post, but if the latter:

Shouldn't:

actions+=/chimera_shot,if=target.health_pct<=80&(!buff.rapid_fire.up|!buff.bloodlust.up)

instead be:

actions+=/chimera_shot,if=target.health_pct<=80&(!buff.rapid_fire.up&!buff.bloodlust.up)

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the syntax, but the former says "if health <= 80% AND (either RF isn't up OR bloodlust isn't up)", which would be true if health is below 80% and only RF is up, or only BL is up. So any time we pop RF without BL also being up, we'd chimera shot, which isn't what we want.

The latter condition instead says "if health <= 80% AND neither RF nor bloodlust is up)" - so we'd only chimera below 80% if not under major haste.

The same applies to the AS conditional later.

Additionally, is it better to do it this way and let SrS fall off when we go into a high-haste no-more-CS phase, then reapply SrS after, or to use CS just before the SrS falls off even during the high-haste non-CA phase (Simcraft can ideally answer that in your case if you add a condition to do that refresh)?

chinoquezada · 02/27/11, 2:47 AM

I've got it to work as expected with the following code (thx alienangel) :

actions=flask,type=winds
actions+=/food,type=seafood_magnifique_feast
actions+=/hunters_mark
actions+=/summon_pet
actions+=/trueshot_aura
actions+=/tolvir_potion,if=!in_combat|buff.rapid_fire.react|target.time_to_die<=60
actions+=/auto_shot
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/aspect_of_the_hawk,moving=0
actions+=/aspect_of_the_fox,moving=1
actions+=/rapid_fire,if=!buff.bloodlust.up|target.time_to_die<=30
actions+=/readiness,wait_for_rapid_fire=1
actions+=/serpent_sting,if=!ticking&target.health_pct<=80&!buff.rapid_fire.up&!buff.bloodlust.up
actions+=/chimera_shot,if=target.health_pct<=80&!buff.rapid_fire.up&!buff.bloodlust.up
actions+=/steady_shot,if=buff.improved_steady_shot.remains<5
actions+=/kill_shot
actions+=/aimed_shot,if=buff.master_marksman_fire.react
actions+=/aimed_shot,if=focus>=80&(target.health_pct>80|buff.rapid_fire.up|buff.bloodlust.up)
actions+=/arcane_shot,if=focus>=66&cooldown.chimera_shot.remains>0&target.health_pct<=80&!buff.rapid_fire.up&!buff.bloodlust.up
actions+=/arcane_shot,if=cooldown.chimera_shot.remains>=5&target.health_pct<=80&!buff.rapid_fire.up&!buff.bloodlust.up
actions+=/steady_shot

The output sample sequence is the following:

And split-up into the mm dps phases:

100%-80%
1013568ABEEH6KKH6KKH6GH6EEAH6KKH6KKH6KKH6KKH6KKHH6EEKH6EEH6GEEH6KEH6KEKH6EEH6GEEH6KEH6KEKHH6EEH6

Standard 80%-20%
CKEDKJEEKKGIDEEJKKIKDEEGIKEIDJEEKKIKDEEGIKEIDJEEKIKEDGJEEKIKDEEIKGEEIDJEEKIKEIDJEEKGIEDEEJKKIKD

Hasted 80%-20%
AB5EEH6KKH6KKHH6KEH6AKKH6KKH6GH6EEH6KK

Standard 80%-20%
CCDEEJKGEEDJJEEKKGIDEEJKKIKIDEEJKKKIDEEGKIEEDJJEEKKIDJEEKKGIDEEJKKIKDEEJKGEEDJJEEKIKDEEJKKIKDEEIKIEEGDJEEIKIEEDGJEEKIKDEEIKIEEDJGEEIKKDJJEEKKIDKE

Hasted 80%-20%
ABKGEEH6KKH6GH6EEH6KKH6KKH6KKH6KKH6KKHH6KEH6KKH6KKH6KKH

Hasted 20%-0%
FH6EEH6KAKH6KFEEHH6KEH6KFE

Standard 20%-0%
CDEEIKIEEDFGEEIIIEDEEFIGEEIDJEEFIKEIDJEEKFIEDEEGIIEEDFJEEIKIEDEEFGIEEDJJEEFIKEDJJ

It all looks goods to me now but there is a problem. The DPS output of this simulation is:

Vs. the output of the AI Hardcast simulation:

So at this point, I'm either still doing something wrong or the math is not correct about the AS focus dump priority.
Here is a link to the .html output of my simulation if anyone wants to check it in it's entirety: 2shared - download MM_AS_focus_dump.html

chinoquezada · 02/27/11, 5:38 AM

Alright, I believe I've found now the root of the problem and solved it. For the sim to deliver the expected numbers (a tad behind AI Hardcast) one must edit it so that CS is still cast on CD when hasted by Rapid Fire or Bloodlust.

The code that does it is this:

glyphs=steady_shot/arcane_shot/rapid_fire
actions=flask,type=winds
actions+=/food,type=seafood_magnifique_feast
actions+=/hunters_mark
actions+=/summon_pet
actions+=/trueshot_aura
actions+=/tolvir_potion,if=!in_combat|buff.rapid_fire.react|target.time_to_die<=60
actions+=/auto_shot
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/aspect_of_the_hawk,moving=0
actions+=/aspect_of_the_fox,moving=1
actions+=/blood_fury
actions+=/serpent_sting,if=!ticking&target.health_pct<=80
actions+=/chimera_shot,if=target.health_pct<=80
actions+=/rapid_fire,if=!buff.bloodlust.up|target.time_to_die<=30
actions+=/readiness,wait_for_rapid_fire=1
actions+=/steady_shot,if=buff.pre_improved_steady_shot.up&buff.improved_steady_shot.remains<3
actions+=/kill_shot
actions+=/aimed_shot,if=buff.master_marksman_fire.react
actions+=/aimed_shot,if=target.health_pct>80|buff.rapid_fire.up|buff.bloodlust.up
actions+=/arcane_shot,if=(cooldown.chimera_shot.remains>=5|focus>=66)&target.health_pct<=80&!buff.rapid_fire.up&!buff.bloodlust.up
actions+=/steady_shot

I'm sorry for dropping so much info overnight in this thread, but I've been obsessing on this problem all night until I could wrap my head around it.

Gavinas · 02/27/11, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by chinoquezada

I'm sorry for dropping so much info overnight in this thread, but I've been obsessing on this problem all night until I could wrap my head around it.

Yeah that's essentially the same as the action list I used to generate the results at Simulationcraft Results. Updated SVN to set it as the default in r7809.

For future reference you can check the priority list used to generate results by expanding the Action Priority List section of the player you're interested in.

Gavinas · 02/27/11, 6:29 PM

I implemented Explosive Trap, Serpent Spread, and Bombardment over the weekend so it should be possible to test out Surv and MM AoE now if anyone is interested. Until a new release gets pushed you'll have to compile SVN to get these changes.

Useful actions:
# Every 60sec, three adds spawn nearby the boss and last for 20sec
raid_events+=adds,count=3,cooldown=60,duration=20
# Change the number of adds required before using an ability
actions+=/multi_shot,if=target.adds>0
# Set trap_launcher=1 to consume focus, trap_launcher=0 assumes you drop it normally (note this doesn't take into account positioning at all, just changes the focus cost. Glyph of Trap Launcher is also supported)
actions+=/explosive_trap,trap_launcher=1

If anyone has some time to test out better ways to incorporate these into the default action lists please do so. Also a few mechanics questions I haven't had an opportunity to test in game yet:

- Is Explosive Trap on the spell/melee hit table and does it crit for 150/200% damage.
- Is the Improved Serpent Sting proc for Serpent Spread based on the duration of a full 15s Serpent Sting

If you notice any unexpected behavior please PM me or post details here.

Mephator · 03/03/11, 11:06 PM

I'm looking at the various profiles available and I can't decipher how pet talents are laid out.

How does "200000030300003010102000000000000000000000000000000000000000000" correspond with the talent pane I see in-game or can I import those values into a website somewhere?

Lokrick · 03/15/11, 1:00 PM

I finally figured out why the BM action list is producing event sequences which apparently run out of focus when spamming Arcane Shot and Kill Command during Bestial Wrath: Kill Command is not getting the focus discount applied (at least in 4.0.6-8). You can see the focus number in parentheses in the spoiler section below.

← Click Here

In the code, it looks like Kill Command is classified as a spell, and the discount is applied only to "attacks". This might incidentally mean that it's not applied to trap launcher. My local hack to cut the focus cost bumped dps for both the 359 and the 372 sets by about 100. A further change to stack Blood Fury with BW (change blood fury to "actions+=/blood_fury,if=buff.beast_within.up") brought another 50 dps:

Setup	BM 359	BM 372
Before	24,959	27,795
With Fix	25,060	27,880
Stacked Blood Fury	25,096	27,930

Cranch · 03/19/11, 10:23 PM

When importing Deadly Biooptic Killshades, the importer misses the socket bonus. Just append "_20agi" to the gems= part of the head= item; e.g., "gems=agile_shadowspirit_208crit_208haste_20agi" to fix that for now.

This issue may also apply to other engineering helms.