SimulationCraft for Hunters - Page 2

Hernes · 03/11/09, 6:43 PM

ufff this is complicated >.<

Starfox · 03/11/09, 7:12 PM

Originally Posted by Hernes

ufff this is complicated >.<

Feel free to ask if you got any problems with SC, that's what those threads are about, to get feedback.

Neruse · 03/11/09, 7:17 PM

I see the hunter module has come a long way. Still has some things that need to be optimized, such as specs, choice of pets, gear layouts, glyphs, and choice of food buffs.

Is the T7 build still being worked on, or is the effort concentrated on the T8 build?

Starfox · 03/11/09, 7:53 PM

Originally Posted by Neruse

I see the hunter module has come a long way. Still has some things that need to be optimized, such as specs, choice of pets, gear layouts, glyphs, and choice of food buffs.

Is the T7 build still being worked on, or is the effort concentrated on the T8 build?

msjogren (don't know if he got the same nick on EJ forums) is working on hunter and hunter profiles, T7 and T8 ones.
He recently changed all the profiles to use BiS gear_xxx values i think, and everyone is open to suggestions to refine profiles. If you know something that would raise the dps for one of the profiles feel free to just post it.

Neruse · 03/12/09, 3:23 PM

T8 hunter stuff:

SV:
1) 7/13/51 (Resourcefulness reduces the cooldown of Black Arrow on PTR).
2) [Blackened Dragonfin]
3) Replace Serpent Sting glyph with Kill Shot glyph.
4) Switch cat with wolf. Furious Howl is now 320 AP at 80, 20s buff with 40s CD.

MM:
1) 15/51/5
2) [Blackened Dragonfin]
3) Replace Steady Shot glyph with Kill Shot glyph. Replace IAotH glyph with Chimera Shot glyph.
4) Switch cat with wolf.

BM:
1) 53/13/5
2) Add Multi-Shot, in rotation after Arcane Shot.
3) Switch cat with devilsaur.

Eh, could do this myself. Have to devote some time to fiddle around.

Rokh · 03/12/09, 4:05 PM

Marks should have 2/2 Rapid Killing, 0/2 Rapid Recuperation. Other than that looks good.
I'm seeing the best Survival spec in the sheet as being 0/14/57. Also glyphs are Kill Shot, Explosive Shot, Steady Shot.

Neruse · 03/12/09, 5:23 PM

I get 7/13/51 about 60-65 dps above 0/14/57. Maybe I have an older version spreadsheet...

Edit: Indeed it was an older version.

I still get 1/2 RR + 1/2 RK as 67 dps over 0/2 RR and 2/2 RK. It seems the mana gains from 1/2 RR is enough to prevent needing AotV on the 6 min test. Even when I drop length to 5 minutes with zero AotV needed, 1/2 RR + 1/2 RK still comes out ahead.

And even with v85h, 7/13/51 is 63 dps ahead of 0/14/57.

Rapid Killing only provides a benefit at certain intervals. Even if you know enough about the future to choose 1 or 2 points, the gain of a single Rapid Fire is quite small. I blame the low value of haste.

Rokh · 03/12/09, 7:40 PM

The difference I think is averaging everything out or using the simulated results in the spreadsheet. I've moved to using that and simulating 30,000 shots and it seems like it would be more accurate than just averaging everything out.

I should have stated that in my original post, just didn't think about it.

dedmonwakeen · 03/13/09, 3:39 AM

Originally Posted by Neruse

T8 hunter stuff:

SV:
1) 7/13/51 (Resourcefulness reduces the cooldown of Black Arrow on PTR).
2) [Blackened Dragonfin]
3) Replace Serpent Sting glyph with Kill Shot glyph.
4) Switch cat with wolf. Furious Howl is now 320 AP at 80, 20s buff with 40s CD.

MM:
1) 15/51/5
2) [Blackened Dragonfin]
3) Replace Steady Shot glyph with Kill Shot glyph. Replace IAotH glyph with Chimera Shot glyph.
4) Switch cat with wolf.

BM:
1) 53/13/5
2) Add Multi-Shot, in rotation after Arcane Shot.
3) Switch cat with devilsaur.

Eh, could do this myself. Have to devote some time to fiddle around.

The bulk of these changes have been committed under r1800.

dedmonwakeen · 03/18/09, 1:15 PM

The mechanics of specifying a pet in SimulationCraft has been greatly simplified.

Using the following config (3.1 mechanics)

#!simcraft

optimal_raid=1

Globals_T8.simcraft

Hunter_T8_53_13_05.simcraft  name=BM_Cat           summon_pet=cat
Hunter_T8_53_13_05.simcraft  name=BM_Devilsaur     summon_pet=devilsaur
Hunter_T8_53_13_05.simcraft  name=BM_Raptor        summon_pet=raptor
Hunter_T8_53_13_05.simcraft  name=BM_Wind_Serpent  summon_pet=wind_serpent
Hunter_T8_53_13_05.simcraft  name=BM_Wolf          summon_pet=wolf

Results in

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.0 (iterations=1000, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1)

Generating baseline... 
10... 9... 8... 7... 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... 

Generating reports...

DPS Ranking:
  28356 100.0%  Raid
   5896  20.8%  BM_Wolf
   5876  20.7%  BM_Devilsaur
   5783  20.4%  BM_Raptor
   5713  20.1%  BM_Cat
   5138  18.1%  BM_Wind_Serpent

Player=BM_Cat  DPS=5713.2 (Error=+/-6.1 Range=+/-289)  DPR=31.5  RPS=181.2/140.5  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=86  agility=1148  stamina=1044  intellect=427  spirit=104  health=19000  mana=13940
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.0%  crit=14.4%  penetration=0  haste=9.2%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=4362  hit=8.0%  crit=26.7%  expertise=0.0  penetration=5.5  haste=9.2%
  Actions:
    arcane_shot           Count= 43.0| 6.7sec  DPE= 3220| 8%  DPET= 1952  DPR=  13.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2124  Crit= 4930| 5852|39.1%
    kill_shot             Count=  4.0|16.3sec  DPE= 9078| 2%  DPET= 5500  DPR=  26.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5992  Crit=13930|16690|38.9%
    multi_shot            Count= 22.9|12.4sec  DPE= 3057| 4%  DPET= 1853  DPR=   7.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2007  Crit= 4649| 5426|39.7%
    ranged                Count=178.5| 1.6sec  DPE= 2462|27%  DPET= 1536  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1734  Crit= 3580| 4244|39.5%
    serpent_sting         Count= 17.5| 0.0sec  DPE= 3154| 3%  DPET= 1912  DPR=   7.3  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=85  Tick=649
    steady_shot           Count= 81.4| 3.4sec  DPE= 2098|10%  DPET= 1271  DPR=   8.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1379  Crit= 3200| 3736|39.5%
   cat
    claw                  Count=138.8| 2.1sec  DPE= 1237|10%  DPET=  750  DPR=  49.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 828  Crit= 1684| 4066|51.6%  Dodge=4.0%
    melee                 Count=372.9| 0.8sec  DPE= 1327|30%  DPET= 1727  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1107  Crit= 2209| 3671|30.0%  Glance= 829|24.0%  Dodge=4.0%
    rake                  Count= 35.1| 8.3sec  DPE= 1732| 4%  DPET= 1050  DPR=  86.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 681  Crit= 1416| 3461|52.7%  Dodge=3.9%  TickCount=67  Tick=364

Player=BM_Devilsaur  DPS=5876.0 (Error=+/-6.4 Range=+/-315)  DPR=32.4  RPS=181.2/140.2  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=86  agility=1148  stamina=1044  intellect=427  spirit=104  health=19000  mana=13940
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.0%  crit=14.4%  penetration=0  haste=9.2%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=4362  hit=8.0%  crit=26.7%  expertise=0.0  penetration=5.5  haste=9.2%
  Actions:
    arcane_shot           Count= 43.1| 6.7sec  DPE= 3242| 8%  DPET= 1965  DPR=  13.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2126  Crit= 4929| 5852|39.8%
    kill_shot             Count=  4.0|16.3sec  DPE= 9283| 2%  DPET= 5625  DPR=  26.8  Miss=0.0%  Hit=6010  Crit=14015|17311|40.9%
    multi_shot            Count= 22.9|12.4sec  DPE= 3044| 4%  DPET= 1845  DPR=   7.1  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2008  Crit= 4658| 5426|39.1%
    ranged                Count=178.4| 1.6sec  DPE= 2466|26%  DPET= 1538  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1735  Crit= 3581| 4244|39.6%
    serpent_sting         Count= 17.5| 0.0sec  DPE= 3164| 3%  DPET= 1918  DPR=   7.3  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=85  Tick=650
    steady_shot           Count= 81.4| 3.4sec  DPE= 2100|10%  DPET= 1273  DPR=   8.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1379  Crit= 3199| 3736|39.6%
   devilsaur
    bite                  Count=138.8| 2.1sec  DPE= 1361|11%  DPET=  825  DPR=  54.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 908  Crit= 1849| 4432|52.0%  Dodge=4.0%
    melee                 Count=372.8| 0.8sec  DPE= 1447|32%  DPET= 1883  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1207  Crit= 2408| 4002|30.1%  Glance= 903|24.1%  Dodge=4.0%
    monstrous_bite        Count= 35.1| 8.3sec  DPE= 1228| 3%  DPET=  744  DPR=  61.4  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 806  Crit= 1685| 4156|51.6%  Dodge=4.0%

Player=BM_Raptor  DPS=5783.2 (Error=+/-7.0 Range=+/-386)  DPR=31.9  RPS=181.2/140.1  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=86  agility=1148  stamina=1044  intellect=427  spirit=104  health=19000  mana=13940
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.0%  crit=14.4%  penetration=0  haste=9.2%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=4362  hit=8.0%  crit=26.7%  expertise=0.0  penetration=5.5  haste=9.2%
  Actions:
    arcane_shot           Count= 43.0| 6.7sec  DPE= 3228| 8%  DPET= 1956  DPR=  13.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2126  Crit= 4935| 5852|39.3%
    kill_shot             Count=  4.0|16.3sec  DPE= 9170| 2%  DPET= 5560  DPR=  26.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5986  Crit=13936|17311|40.1%
    multi_shot            Count= 22.9|12.4sec  DPE= 3064| 4%  DPET= 1857  DPR=   7.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2010  Crit= 4655| 5426|39.9%
    ranged                Count=178.4| 1.6sec  DPE= 2469|27%  DPET= 1540  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1735  Crit= 3583| 4244|39.7%
    serpent_sting         Count= 17.5| 0.0sec  DPE= 3158| 3%  DPET= 1914  DPR=   7.3  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=85  Tick=650
    steady_shot           Count= 81.4| 3.4sec  DPE= 2100|10%  DPET= 1273  DPR=   8.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1380  Crit= 3203| 3736|39.5%
   raptor
    claw                  Count=166.9| 1.7sec  DPE= 1287|13%  DPET=  780  DPR=  51.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 858  Crit= 1752| 4379|51.9%  Dodge=4.1%
    melee                 Count=372.8| 0.8sec  DPE= 1380|31%  DPET= 1795  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1149  Crit= 2299| 4038|30.1%  Glance= 861|23.9%  Dodge=4.0%
    savage_rend           Count=  7.0|43.0sec  DPE= 2264| 1%  DPET= 1373  DPR= 113.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 716  Crit= 1600| 3560|49.3%  Dodge=3.6%  TickCount=20  Tick=394

Player=BM_Wind_Serpent  DPS=5137.8 (Error=+/-5.7 Range=+/-269)  DPR=28.3  RPS=181.3/140.5  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=86  agility=1148  stamina=1044  intellect=427  spirit=104  health=19000  mana=13940
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.0%  crit=14.4%  penetration=0  haste=9.2%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=4362  hit=8.0%  crit=26.7%  expertise=0.0  penetration=5.5  haste=9.2%
  Actions:
    arcane_shot           Count= 43.0| 6.7sec  DPE= 3228| 9%  DPET= 1956  DPR=  13.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2124  Crit= 4930| 5488|39.4%
    kill_shot             Count=  4.0|16.2sec  DPE= 9056| 2%  DPET= 5488  DPR=  26.1  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5940  Crit=13798|16148|39.7%
    multi_shot            Count= 22.9|12.5sec  DPE= 3058| 5%  DPET= 1853  DPR=   7.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2008  Crit= 4656| 5135|39.7%
    ranged                Count=178.7| 1.6sec  DPE= 2459|30%  DPET= 1536  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1730  Crit= 3572| 3976|39.6%
    serpent_sting         Count= 17.5| 0.0sec  DPE= 3152| 4%  DPET= 1911  DPR=   7.3  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=85  Tick=649
    steady_shot           Count= 81.5| 3.4sec  DPE= 2112|12%  DPET= 1280  DPR=   8.8  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1385  Crit= 3209| 3576|39.9%
   wind_serpent
    bite                  Count=125.0| 2.3sec  DPE= 1045| 9%  DPET=  634  DPR=  61.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 735  Crit= 1490| 3292|45.1%  Dodge=4.1%
    lightning_breath      Count= 35.5| 8.2sec  DPE=  323| 1%  DPET=  217  DPR=  24.4  Miss=4.1%  Hit= 337
    melee                 Count=370.1| 0.8sec  DPE= 1051|26%  DPET= 1358  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 948  Crit= 1895| 2759|20.9%  Glance= 711|24.0%  Dodge=4.0%
    wolverine_bite        Count= 17.3|15.8sec  DPE= 1710| 2%  DPET= 1037  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1159  Crit= 2351| 5200|46.2%

Player=BM_Wolf  DPS=5895.9 (Error=+/-6.5 Range=+/-331)  DPR=32.5  RPS=181.2/140.4  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=86  agility=1148  stamina=1044  intellect=427  spirit=104  health=19000  mana=13940
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.0%  crit=14.4%  penetration=0  haste=9.2%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=4362  hit=8.0%  crit=26.7%  expertise=0.0  penetration=5.5  haste=9.2%
  Actions:
    arcane_shot           Count= 43.0| 6.7sec  DPE= 3305| 8%  DPET= 2003  DPR=  13.8  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2173  Crit= 5040| 6041|39.5%
    kill_shot             Count=  4.0|16.2sec  DPE= 9328| 2%  DPET= 5656  DPR=  26.9  Miss=0.0%  Hit=6126  Crit=14226|17292|39.5%
    multi_shot            Count= 23.0|12.4sec  DPE= 3127| 4%  DPET= 1895  DPR=   7.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2048  Crit= 4753| 5576|39.9%
    ranged                Count=178.3| 1.6sec  DPE= 2522|27%  DPET= 1572  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1774  Crit= 3666| 4383|39.5%
    serpent_sting         Count= 17.5| 0.0sec  DPE= 3209| 3%  DPET= 1945  DPR=   7.4  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=85  Tick=661
    steady_shot           Count= 81.3| 3.4sec  DPE= 2127|10%  DPET= 1289  DPR=   8.8  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1400  Crit= 3245| 3819|39.4%
   wolf
    bite                  Count=173.4| 1.7sec  DPE= 1317|14%  DPET=  798  DPR=  52.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 879  Crit= 1793| 4391|51.8%  Dodge=4.0%
    melee                 Count=372.9| 0.8sec  DPE= 1425|31%  DPET= 1854  DPR=   inf  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1187  Crit= 2373| 4034|30.1%  Glance= 891|24.0%  Dodge=4.0%

Gains:

    BM_Cat:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5215.9
        initial_mana=13937.0
        judgement_of_wisdom=13769.6
        replenishment=9985.5
        viper_aspect_passive=3121.6
        viper_aspect_shot=8189.5

    BM_Devilsaur:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5215.9
        initial_mana=13937.0
        judgement_of_wisdom=13747.2
        replenishment=9985.5
        viper_aspect_passive=3105.2
        viper_aspect_shot=8130.6

    BM_Raptor:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5215.9
        initial_mana=13937.0
        judgement_of_wisdom=13776.3
        replenishment=9985.5
        viper_aspect_passive=3084.8
        viper_aspect_shot=8098.9

    BM_Wind_Serpent:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5215.9
        initial_mana=13937.0
        judgement_of_wisdom=13791.1
        replenishment=9985.5
        roar_of_recovery=3992.9
        viper_aspect_passive=1983.9
        viper_aspect_shot=5302.0

    BM_Wolf:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5215.9
        initial_mana=13937.0
        judgement_of_wisdom=13809.3
        replenishment=9985.5
        viper_aspect_passive=3111.0
        viper_aspect_shot=8114.6

Procs:

    BM_Cat:
        darkmoon_greatness=6.8|42.4sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=136.4|2.1sec

    BM_Devilsaur:
        darkmoon_greatness=6.8|42.4sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=136.2|2.1sec

    BM_Raptor:
        darkmoon_greatness=6.7|42.5sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=136.5|2.1sec

    BM_Wind_Serpent:
        darkmoon_greatness=6.8|42.4sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=136.7|2.1sec

    BM_Wolf:
        darkmoon_greatness=6.8|42.4sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=136.8|2.1sec

Up-Times:

    Global:
        100.0% : blood_frenzy
        100.0% : improved_scorch
        100.0% : improved_shadow_bolt
        100.0% : mangle
        100.0% : master_poisoner
        100.0% : savage_combat
        100.0% : totem_of_wrath
        100.0% : winters_chill

    BM_Cat:
         5.8% : aspect_of_the_viper
        98.9% : frenzy
        51.2% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
         6.0% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment

    BM_Devilsaur:
         5.8% : aspect_of_the_viper
        98.8% : frenzy
        50.8% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
        94.4% : monstrous_bite
         6.0% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment

    BM_Raptor:
         5.8% : aspect_of_the_viper
        98.8% : frenzy
        51.0% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
         6.0% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment
        35.8% : savage_rend

    BM_Wind_Serpent:
         3.8% : aspect_of_the_viper
        96.3% : frenzy
        51.7% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
         6.1% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment

    BM_Wolf:
         5.8% : aspect_of_the_viper
        98.9% : frenzy
        71.2% : furious_howl
        50.6% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
         6.1% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment

Waiting:
     0.0% : BM_Cat
     0.0% : BM_Devilsaur
     0.0% : BM_Raptor
     0.0% : BM_Wind_Serpent
     0.0% : BM_Wolf

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 8357873
  MaxEventQueue = 85
  SimSeconds    = 287132
  CpuSeconds    = 9
  SpeedUp       = 31904

The configs can be viewed from the trunk of the SVN repository: simulationcraft - Revision 1884: /trunk

Midnight · 03/21/09, 10:02 AM

I understand that SimCraft actually "simulates" a shot rotation how it could happen in game, right?

I´m currently trying to write an addon that gives the user a proposal about which shot next to use. The first iteration of the algorithm was a rather simple priority system. Upon refining the algorithm I realized that it isn´t that easy in some cases. There may be situations when it´s better to wait for an ES to cool down instead of shooting a SS immediatly and other times when it´s better to accept pushing back ES and start casting the SS. The same goes for literaly every other combination of shots that don´t do equal damage and take equal time. Also there´s propably no one single number that´s always right for all these choices. Now I wonder if/how you solved this problem theoretically. How does SimCraft decide the order of shots?

dedmonwakeen · 03/21/09, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Midnight

I understand that SimCraft actually "simulates" a shot rotation how it could happen in game, right?

I´m currently trying to write an addon that gives the user a proposal about which shot next to use. The first iteration of the algorithm was a rather simple priority system. Upon refining the algorithm I realized that it isn´t that easy in some cases. There may be situations when it´s better to wait for an ES to cool down instead of shooting a SS immediatly and other times when it´s better to accept pushing back ES and start casting the SS. The same goes for literaly every other combination of shots that don´t do equal damage and take equal time. Also there´s propably no one single number that´s always right for all these choices. Now I wonder if/how you solved this problem theoretically. How does SimCraft decide the order of shots?

After much experimentation with the sim, the first order effects of "damge-per-execute-time" is pretty obvious, so that generates the initial priority list. As you mention, it gets interesting when something in the priority list is "almost" ready. In general, it is very rare that waiting provides a real noticeable benefit. (This is true across most classes/actions.)

However, Explosive Shot is one of those rare examples. In the trunk right now, ES will never over-write itself and the AI will never delay SS in favor of waiting. However, I do know that the Hunter dev has a "wait" action coded up in his sandbox that he is experimenting with.

sjogren · 04/08/09, 5:30 AM

I had completely missed the activity on this thread, sorry about that.

I did experiment a bit with that wait action, but my initial impression was that the added dps was so small that it disappeared in the general noise of the RNG so I never polished up the code to commit it. Hopefully I'll get around to it One Of These Days.

Note that we're not trying to simulate trap dancing so the number of LnL procs is pretty low.

And to clarify dedmon's post, simcraft itself doesn't do the prioritization, that's done by the actions list in the profiles. You can set up different profiles with different shot prioritization schemes.

Dargonaut · 04/15/09, 1:34 AM

I may be confused about how calculate_scale_factors works, but shouldn't it return zero for hit rating if hit capped?

sjogren · 04/15/09, 2:55 AM

No, for stats that have caps it removes points and checks how much dps you lose.