SimulationCraft for Hunters - Page 2

Midnight · 03/21/09, 11:02 AM

I understand that SimCraft actually "simulates" a shot rotation how it could happen in game, right?

I´m currently trying to write an addon that gives the user a proposal about which shot next to use. The first iteration of the algorithm was a rather simple priority system. Upon refining the algorithm I realized that it isn´t that easy in some cases. There may be situations when it´s better to wait for an ES to cool down instead of shooting a SS immediatly and other times when it´s better to accept pushing back ES and start casting the SS. The same goes for literaly every other combination of shots that don´t do equal damage and take equal time. Also there´s propably no one single number that´s always right for all these choices. Now I wonder if/how you solved this problem theoretically. How does SimCraft decide the order of shots?

dedmonwakeen · 03/21/09, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Midnight

I understand that SimCraft actually "simulates" a shot rotation how it could happen in game, right?

I´m currently trying to write an addon that gives the user a proposal about which shot next to use. The first iteration of the algorithm was a rather simple priority system. Upon refining the algorithm I realized that it isn´t that easy in some cases. There may be situations when it´s better to wait for an ES to cool down instead of shooting a SS immediatly and other times when it´s better to accept pushing back ES and start casting the SS. The same goes for literaly every other combination of shots that don´t do equal damage and take equal time. Also there´s propably no one single number that´s always right for all these choices. Now I wonder if/how you solved this problem theoretically. How does SimCraft decide the order of shots?

After much experimentation with the sim, the first order effects of "damge-per-execute-time" is pretty obvious, so that generates the initial priority list. As you mention, it gets interesting when something in the priority list is "almost" ready. In general, it is very rare that waiting provides a real noticeable benefit. (This is true across most classes/actions.)

However, Explosive Shot is one of those rare examples. In the trunk right now, ES will never over-write itself and the AI will never delay SS in favor of waiting. However, I do know that the Hunter dev has a "wait" action coded up in his sandbox that he is experimenting with.

sjogren · 04/08/09, 6:30 AM

I had completely missed the activity on this thread, sorry about that.

I did experiment a bit with that wait action, but my initial impression was that the added dps was so small that it disappeared in the general noise of the RNG so I never polished up the code to commit it. Hopefully I'll get around to it One Of These Days.

Note that we're not trying to simulate trap dancing so the number of LnL procs is pretty low.

And to clarify dedmon's post, simcraft itself doesn't do the prioritization, that's done by the actions list in the profiles. You can set up different profiles with different shot prioritization schemes.

Dargonaut · 04/15/09, 2:34 AM

I may be confused about how calculate_scale_factors works, but shouldn't it return zero for hit rating if hit capped?

sjogren · 04/15/09, 3:55 AM

No, for stats that have caps it removes points and checks how much dps you lose.

Starfox · 05/27/09, 4:27 AM

Latest source has PTR 3.1.3 changes in, as always, just patch=3.1.3 to do your runs with PTR changes.
I hope we'll get a release out soon when all classes have their PTR changes in.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
3/3 IHM, 1/3 ISS, 0/3 IBarr

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.3 ( iterations=9999, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, normalized_rng=0 )

DPS Ranking:
   7328 100.0%  Raid
   7333  100.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07

Player=Hunter_T8_07_57_07  DPS=7333.3 (Error=+/-3.5 Range=+/-655)  DPR=40.5  RS=181.1/152.6  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=76  agility=1509  stamina=883  intellect=421  spirit=94  health=13229  mana=11084
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.03%  crit=18.65%  penetration=0  haste=4.30%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=4271  hit=8.02%  crit=35.23%  expertise=0.00  penetration=22.89%  haste=4.30%
  Defense Stats:  armor=3018
  Actions:
    aimed_shot            Count= 24.8|11.9sec  DPE= 5299| 6%  DPET= 3212  DPR=  17.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2903  Crit= 7231|10635|55.4%
    arcane_shot           Count= 42.1| 7.0sec  DPE= 4746| 9%  DPET= 2876  DPR=  19.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2521  Crit= 6269| 8191|59.4%
    chimera_serpent       Count= 28.3|10.7sec  DPE= 4832| 6%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3030  Crit= 6250| 6935|56.0%
    chimera_shot          Count= 28.3|10.7sec  DPE= 7000| 9%  DPET= 4242  DPR=  15.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3826  Crit= 9516|12309|55.8%
    kill_shot             Count=  5.9| 9.9sec  DPE=14574| 4%  DPET= 8833  DPR=  41.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=8010  Crit=19865|27095|55.4%
    piercing_shots        Count=  0.0| 0.0sec  DPE=    1| 8%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=-1.$%  TickCount=243  Tick=721
    ranged                Count=156.5| 1.9sec  DPE= 3496|25%  DPET= 1840  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2199  Crit= 4543| 6106|55.4%
    serpent_sting         Count=  1.0| 0.0sec  DPE=91321| 4%  DPET=55337  DPR= 201.1  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=99  Tick=923
    silencing_shot        Count= 16.1|19.0sec  DPE= 1945| 1%  DPET=    1  DPR=   6.4  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1103  Crit= 2627| 3416|55.3%
    steady_shot           Count= 76.7| 3.8sec  DPE= 3467|12%  DPET= 2081  DPR=  18.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1841  Crit= 4584| 5951|59.3%
    wild_quiver           Count= 18.8|15.1sec  DPE= 3840| 3%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2420  Crit= 4992| 5679|55.2%
   wolf
    bite                  Count=182.2| 1.7sec  DPE=  564| 5%  DPET=  342  DPR=  22.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 478  Crit= 1005| 1847|22.2%  Dodge=6.5%
    melee                 Count=250.0| 1.2sec  DPE=  648| 7%  DPET=  541  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 594  Crit= 1189| 1646|21.4%  Glance= 446|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Gains:

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        blessing_of_wisdom=6352.5  (overflow=2.8%)
        initial_mana=13637.7
        judgement_of_wisdom=20488.0  (overflow=1.9%)
        rapid_recuperation=8972.4  (overflow=17.8%)
        replenishment=9940.5  (overflow=2.6%)

Procs:

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        darkmoon_greatness=7.0|42.84sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=207.0|1.45sec
        mjolnir_runestone=6.4|46.65sec
        tier8_4pc=7.7|38.77sec
        wild_quiver=18.8|15.97sec

Up-Times:

    Global:
        100.0% : blood_frenzy
        100.0% : master_poisoner
        100.0% : savage_combat
        100.0% : totem_of_wrath

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        51.0% : furious_howl
        47.2% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
         4.0% : improved_steady_shot
        23.4% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment
        32.3% : tier8_4pc

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 22367571
  MaxEventQueue = 20
  TargetHealth  = 2194442
  SimSeconds    = 2999987
  CpuSeconds    = 20.812
  SpeedUp       = 144147

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=1.000282 Range=1.000000 Gauss=0.999931

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
0/3 IHM, 3/3 ISS, 1/3 IBarr

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.3 ( iterations=9999, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, normalized_rng=0 )

DPS Ranking:
   7288 100.0%  Raid
   7294  100.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07

Player=Hunter_T8_07_57_07  DPS=7293.6 (Error=+/-3.5 Range=+/-650)  DPR=40.5  RS=180.1/152.9  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=76  agility=1509  stamina=883  intellect=421  spirit=94  health=13229  mana=11084
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.03%  crit=18.65%  penetration=0  haste=4.30%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=4271  hit=8.02%  crit=35.23%  expertise=0.00  penetration=22.89%  haste=4.30%
  Defense Stats:  armor=3018
  Actions:
    aimed_shot            Count= 24.8|11.9sec  DPE= 5434| 6%  DPET= 3293  DPR=  18.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2888  Crit= 7191|10517|59.2%
    arcane_shot           Count= 42.1| 7.0sec  DPE= 4739| 9%  DPET= 2872  DPR=  19.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2516  Crit= 6258| 8086|59.4%
    chimera_serpent       Count= 28.3|10.7sec  DPE= 4767| 6%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2995  Crit= 6176| 6862|55.7%
    chimera_shot          Count= 28.3|10.7sec  DPE= 6965| 9%  DPET= 4221  DPR=  15.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3813  Crit= 9486|12157|55.6%
    kill_shot             Count=  5.9| 9.9sec  DPE=14293| 4%  DPET= 8662  DPR=  40.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=7875  Crit=19570|26730|54.9%
    piercing_shots        Count=  0.0| 0.0sec  DPE=    1| 8%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=-1.$%  TickCount=243  Tick=725
    ranged                Count=156.5| 1.9sec  DPE= 3448|25%  DPET= 1815  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2168  Crit= 4478| 6031|55.4%
    serpent_sting         Count=  1.0| 0.0sec  DPE=90232| 4%  DPET=54670  DPR= 198.7  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=99  Tick=912
    silencing_shot        Count= 16.1|19.0sec  DPE= 1921| 1%  DPET=    1  DPR=   6.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1087  Crit= 2590| 3372|55.4%
    steady_shot           Count= 76.7| 3.8sec  DPE= 3438|12%  DPET= 2063  DPR=  18.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1825  Crit= 4542| 5901|59.4%
    wild_quiver           Count= 18.8|15.1sec  DPE= 3791| 3%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2386  Crit= 4922| 5609|55.4%
   wolf
    bite                  Count=182.2| 1.7sec  DPE=  564| 5%  DPET=  342  DPR=  22.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 478  Crit= 1005| 1847|22.2%  Dodge=6.5%
    melee                 Count=250.0| 1.2sec  DPE=  647| 7%  DPET=  541  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 594  Crit= 1189| 1646|21.4%  Glance= 446|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Gains:

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        blessing_of_wisdom=6371.9  (overflow=2.5%)
        initial_mana=13637.7
        judgement_of_wisdom=20499.8  (overflow=1.9%)
        rapid_recuperation=8980.5  (overflow=17.7%)
        replenishment=9971.2  (overflow=2.3%)

Procs:

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        darkmoon_greatness=7.0|42.84sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=207.1|1.45sec
        mjolnir_runestone=6.4|46.66sec
        tier8_4pc=7.7|39.11sec
        wild_quiver=18.8|15.93sec

Up-Times:

    Global:
        100.0% : blood_frenzy
        100.0% : master_poisoner
        100.0% : savage_combat
        100.0% : totem_of_wrath

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        51.0% : furious_howl
        47.4% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
        11.4% : improved_steady_shot
        23.4% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment
        32.1% : tier8_4pc

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 22446244
  MaxEventQueue = 21
  TargetHealth  = 2182712
  SimSeconds    = 2999771
  CpuSeconds    = 21.235
  SpeedUp       = 141265

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=1.000351 Range=1.000000 Gauss=1.000029

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
0/3 IHM, 1/3 ISS, 3/3 IBarr

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.3 ( iterations=9999, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, normalized_rng=0 )

DPS Ranking:
   7313 100.0%  Raid
   7319  100.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07

Player=Hunter_T8_07_57_07  DPS=7318.5 (Error=+/-3.4 Range=+/-684)  DPR=40.3  RS=181.6/153.0  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=76  agility=1509  stamina=883  intellect=421  spirit=94  health=13229  mana=11084
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.03%  crit=18.65%  penetration=0  haste=4.30%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=4271  hit=8.02%  crit=35.23%  expertise=0.00  penetration=22.89%  haste=4.30%
  Defense Stats:  armor=3018
  Actions:
    aimed_shot            Count= 24.8|11.9sec  DPE= 5741| 6%  DPET= 3480  DPR=  19.1  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2866  Crit= 7141|10517|67.3%
    arcane_shot           Count= 42.1| 7.0sec  DPE= 4677| 9%  DPET= 2834  DPR=  18.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2483  Crit= 6176| 8086|59.4%
    chimera_serpent       Count= 28.3|10.7sec  DPE= 4760| 6%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2994  Crit= 6177| 6862|55.5%
    chimera_shot          Count= 28.3|10.7sec  DPE= 6899| 9%  DPET= 4181  DPR=  15.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3770  Crit= 9382|12157|55.7%
    kill_shot             Count=  5.9| 9.9sec  DPE=14383| 4%  DPET= 8715  DPR=  40.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit=7879  Crit=19568|26730|55.6%
    piercing_shots        Count=  0.0| 0.0sec  DPE=    1| 8%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=-1.$%  TickCount=244  Tick=741
    ranged                Count=156.5| 1.9sec  DPE= 3447|25%  DPET= 1814  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2168  Crit= 4478| 6031|55.4%
    serpent_sting         Count=  1.0| 0.0sec  DPE=90258| 4%  DPET=54691  DPR= 198.7  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=99  Tick=912
    silencing_shot        Count= 16.1|19.0sec  DPE= 1918| 1%  DPET=    1  DPR=   6.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1087  Crit= 2588| 3372|55.4%
    steady_shot           Count= 76.7| 3.8sec  DPE= 3435|12%  DPET= 2062  DPR=  18.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1825  Crit= 4541| 5901|59.3%
    wild_quiver           Count= 18.8|15.2sec  DPE= 3795| 3%  DPET=    1  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2385  Crit= 4922| 5609|55.6%
   wolf
    bite                  Count=182.2| 1.7sec  DPE=  564| 5%  DPET=  342  DPR=  22.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 478  Crit= 1005| 1847|22.2%  Dodge=6.5%
    melee                 Count=250.1| 1.2sec  DPE=  647| 7%  DPET=  541  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 594  Crit= 1189| 1646|21.4%  Glance= 446|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Gains:

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        blessing_of_wisdom=6376.7  (overflow=2.5%)
        initial_mana=13637.7
        judgement_of_wisdom=20508.7  (overflow=1.9%)
        rapid_recuperation=9004.4  (overflow=17.5%)
        replenishment=9978.1  (overflow=2.3%)

Procs:

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        darkmoon_greatness=7.0|42.85sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=207.1|1.45sec
        mjolnir_runestone=6.4|46.70sec
        tier8_4pc=7.7|39.11sec
        wild_quiver=18.8|15.99sec

Up-Times:

    Global:
        100.0% : blood_frenzy
        100.0% : master_poisoner
        100.0% : savage_combat
        100.0% : totem_of_wrath

    Hunter_T8_07_57_07:
        51.0% : furious_howl
        47.3% : improved_aspect_of_the_hawk
         3.9% : improved_steady_shot
        23.4% : rapid_fire
        100.0% : replenishment
        32.1% : tier8_4pc

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 22419643
  MaxEventQueue = 20
  TargetHealth  = 2190113
  SimSeconds    = 3000699
  CpuSeconds    = 21.234
  SpeedUp       = 141316

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=1.000192 Range=1.000000 Gauss=1.000031

So if you are the only hunter Imp.HuntersMark wins, no brainer if their are additional SV/BM hunters. Only problem is with 2+ MM hunters, as all others wasted their points in IHM. Would be nice to get something passive on the talent that only the hunter itself benefits, like with other raidbuff talents from other classes (Shaman Unleashed Rage gives them expertise, Warrior Blood Frenzy gives them some haste, etc.) so if there are 2 MM hunters, even the second one gets a benefit from his IHM talent.

Dralmoo · 05/27/09, 12:37 PM

You can get IHM and Imp Barrage if you drop ISS, TSA, and SS for an overall dps gain.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.3 ( iterations=9999, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, normalized_rng=0 )

Generating baseline... 
10... 9... 8... 7... 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... 0... 

Generating reports...

DPS Ranking:
   7385  50.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07-ks-srp-ss

Player=Hunter_T8_07_57_07-ks-srp-ss  DPS=7385.2 (Error=+/-3.4 Range=+/-622)  DPR=44.3  RS=166.8/147.3  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=76  agility=1509  stamina=883  intellect=421  spirit=94  health=13229  mana=11084
  Spell Stats:  power=0  hit=10.03%  crit=18.65%  penetration=0  haste=4.30%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=4271  hit=8.02%  crit=35.23%  expertise=0.00  penetration=22.89%  haste=4.30%
  Defense Stats:  armor=3018
  Actions:
    aimed_shot            Count= 25.0|11.9sec  DPE= 5833| 7%  DPET= 3535  DPR=  19.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2912  Crit= 7253| 9572|67.3%
    arcane_shot           Count= 42.4| 7.0sec  DPE= 4770| 9%  DPET= 2891  DPR=  18.9  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2531  Crit= 6297| 7184|59.4%
    chimera_serpent       Count= 28.4|10.7sec  DPE= 4865| 6%  DPET=  inf  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3053  Crit= 6297| 6984|55.9%
    chimera_shot          Count= 28.4|10.7sec  DPE= 7006| 9%  DPET= 4246  DPR=  15.4  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3836  Crit= 9541|10792|55.6%
    kill_shot             Count=  6.0| 9.9sec  DPE=14688| 4%  DPET= 8900  DPR=  41.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit=8064  Crit=20041|26421|55.3%
    piercing_shots        Count=  0.0| 0.0sec  DPE=  inf| 8%  DPET=  inf  DPR=   0.0  Miss=nan%  TickCount=246  Tick=755
    ranged                Count=157.2| 1.9sec  DPE= 3530|25%  DPET= 1856  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2220  Crit= 4584| 6156|55.4%
    serpent_sting         Count=  1.0| 0.0sec  DPE=92516| 4%  DPET=56074  DPR= 203.7  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=99  Tick=930
    steady_shot           Count= 77.2| 3.8sec  DPE= 3498|12%  DPET= 2099  DPR=  18.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1856  Crit= 4618| 5985|59.4%
    wild_quiver           Count= 18.9|15.1sec  DPE= 3887| 3%  DPET=  inf  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2443  Crit= 5043| 5726|55.5%
   wolf
    bite                  Count=182.2| 1.7sec  DPE=  564| 5%  DPET=  342  DPR=  22.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 478  Crit= 1004| 1847|22.2%  Dodge=6.6%
    melee                 Count=250.0| 1.2sec  DPE=  648| 7%  DPET=  541  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 595  Crit= 1189| 1646|21.4%  Glance= 446|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

You can get even more DPS using CS/SS/SrP glyphs, btw.

DPS Ranking:
  14770 100.0%  Raid
   7399  50.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07-cs-srp-ss
   7385  50.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07-ks-srp-ss

Hagen · 05/27/09, 8:20 PM

I was playing around with the new SimCraft release (pre 3.1.3) and I found something strange. I compared different specs with similar (in this case identical) gear and found a strange anomally:

  Hunter_T8_00_15_56         Agi=1.54  Sta=0.29  Int=0.54  AP=0.54  ArPen=1.17  Hit=2.25  Crit=0.89  Haste=1.05  Wdps=4.07  Lag=7.28
  Hunter_T8_01_15_55         Agi=1.60  Sta=0.26  Int=0.60  AP=0.54  ArPen=1.15  Hit=2.23  Crit=0.94  Haste=1.29  Wdps=3.81  Lag=6.54
  Hunter_T8_02_15_54         Agi=1.57  Sta=0.30  Int=0.61  AP=0.57  ArPen=1.21  Hit=2.19  Crit=0.92  Haste=0.57  Wdps=4.01  Lag=6.26

The talent builds were:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

and the equipment was:
chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner

Can anyone of you explain the strange scaling of haste and weapon DPS or think of something I might have done wrong. Maybe it's just a stupid mistake from me.

Thanks in advance.

Kharthus · 05/27/09, 9:38 PM

Originally Posted by Dralmoo

You can get even more DPS using CS/SS/SrP glyphs, btw.

DPS Ranking:
  14770 100.0%  Raid
   7399  50.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07-cs-srp-ss
   7385  50.0%  Hunter_T8_07_57_07-ks-srp-ss

What happens when you swap Aimed for SS glyph? The spreadsheet shows it as an upgrade.

sjogren · 05/28/09, 4:22 AM

Originally Posted by Hagen

Can anyone of you explain the strange scaling of haste and weapon DPS or think of something I might have done wrong. Maybe it's just a stupid mistake from me.

How many iterations did you use? Typically you need to run at least 10k iterations to get reasonably stable scale factors.

Hagen · 05/28/09, 4:48 AM

Originally Posted by sjogren

How many iterations did you use? Typically you need to run at least 10k iterations to get reasonably stable scale factors.

First I run 1k iterations, but confirmed with 10k iterations. The weapon DPS scaling evened out, but haste is stille the same. I don't understand why this one talent point should affects haste this way.

  Hunter_T8_00_15_56         Agi=1.50  Sta=0.27  Int=0.54  AP=0.51  ArPen=1.15  Hit=2.26  Crit=0.89  Haste=1.05  Wdps=3.89  Lag=7.40
  Hunter_T8_01_15_55         Agi=1.57  Sta=0.27  Int=0.60  AP=0.55  ArPen=1.14  Hit=2.21  Crit=0.93  Haste=1.32  Wdps=3.89  Lag=6.59
  Hunter_T8_02_15_54         Agi=1.54  Sta=0.28  Int=0.62  AP=0.55  ArPen=1.20  Hit=2.20  Crit=0.90  Haste=0.56  Wdps=3.93  Lag=6.66

Thrawn · 05/28/09, 6:03 AM

With the gear used in chardev you have only 5% haste. Adding 3% from Ret-aura you would need about 8% to reach the softcap (523 haste rating), after which haste offers significantly less benefit. The last two specs are using IAotH which count for 3% haste for one point and 6% haste for two points. So if IAotH procs you are at

8% haste -- 262 haste rating to reach the soft cap
11% haste -- 164 haste rating to reach the soft cap
14% haste -- 66 haste rating to reach the soft cap

I am not entirely sure how much simcraft adds to your stats in order to compute the scaling factors, but a value between 66 and 164 would explain the results since every point over 66haste rating would be above the haste softcap (when IAotH is up) and would be much less valuable than the haste rating used to reach the softcap. This would also explain the slightly higher value of weapon dps, because every haste point above the softcap increases the percentage damage of your autoattacks (and lowers the percentage of non-weapon-dps-related shots ES, BA, SrS).

sjogren · 05/28/09, 6:04 AM

That haste value goes down with more points in IAotH isn't surprising, but that it goes up when going from 0 to 1 point sure is. I'll dig around and see if I can find anything... Could you pm me the .simcraft file you used?

Originally Posted by Thrawn

I am not entirely sure how much simcraft adds to your stats in order to compute the scaling factors, but a value between 66 and 164 would explain the results

We use +250. Shrinking that would need a massive increase in the number of iterations needed to converge, but we're working on some experimental stuff to combat this.

Starfox · 05/28/09, 6:13 AM

Regarding Haste: With softcaps you have to do HIGH iteration/LOW delta value runs. The default is to add 250 to a rating and rerun the whole sim, get the difference in dps, and scaling = DpsDiff / DeltaValue.
So it could be that with 1/5 IAofH haste increases your uptime significantly, because the proc itself doesn't give you that much haste, but with 2/5 the proc itself helps alot more in keeping itself up, so haste loses a bit of its value. Nevertheless a jump from 1.32 to 0.56 seems a bit big

sjogren · 05/28/09, 6:30 AM

Right, so if you don't mind doing a mind-numbingly long run, you could try setting scale_haste_rating=-167 (a negative value is probably safer than a positive and since your chardev profile has 167 haste rating, that's the max you can use) and run a gazillion iterations... You could try with 100k and see if that's enough.

Hagen · 05/29/09, 3:52 AM

For your information/confirmation: Testing again with haste scaling of -167 and 10k iterations fixed it and shows a scaling far more what one would expect. Thanks for the advice.

  Hunter_T8_00_15_56         Agi=1.50  Sta=0.27  Int=0.54  AP=0.51  ArPen=1.15  Hit=2.26  Crit=0.89  Haste=1.12  Wdps=3.89  Lag=7.40
  Hunter_T8_01_15_55         Agi=1.57  Sta=0.27  Int=0.60  AP=0.55  ArPen=1.14  Hit=2.21  Crit=0.93  Haste=1.05  Wdps=3.89  Lag=6.59
  Hunter_T8_02_15_54         Agi=1.54  Sta=0.28  Int=0.62  AP=0.55  ArPen=1.20  Hit=2.20  Crit=0.90  Haste=1.04  Wdps=3.93  Lag=6.66

Garf · 05/29/09, 7:38 PM

I'm at a bit of a loss. I understand that I need to enter the raw gear contributions for my gear if I want to use that. So to figure out where to pull the numbers from (assuming that manually addind that up for everything isn't the way to go), I checked out the chardev link given in Hunter_T7_15_51_05.simcraft (which is closest to me). Now, comparing the numbers given by chardev for pretty much anything, I get different numbers than what's listed in the .simcraft. For example, chardev says 641 crit rating, yet the .simcraft uses gear_crit_rating=648. Agi I can't find a pure summary on chardev.org at all. Hit gives 230 vs gear_hit_rating=263, AP 3732 (which appears to include agi?) and gear_attack_power=2239 - so basically, it appears to be all over the place.

So that gives two questions: Is there a simple way to get the base stats needed (especially agi)? And what's the deal with the mentioned discrepancies?

Also, I tried to find a list of what's actually implemented with regards to trinkets, glyphs etc, but am not finding one. Does that exist?

Starfox · 05/30/09, 2:59 AM

Originally Posted by Garf

I'm at a bit of a loss. I understand that I need to enter the raw gear contributions for my gear if I want to use that. So to figure out where to pull the numbers from (assuming that manually addind that up for everything isn't the way to go), I checked out the chardev link given in Hunter_T7_15_51_05.simcraft (which is closest to me). Now, comparing the numbers given by chardev for pretty much anything, I get different numbers than what's listed in the .simcraft. For example, chardev says 641 crit rating, yet the .simcraft uses gear_crit_rating=648. Agi I can't find a pure summary on chardev.org at all. Hit gives 230 vs gear_hit_rating=263, AP 3732 (which appears to include agi?) and gear_attack_power=2239 - so basically, it appears to be all over the place.

So that gives two questions: Is there a simple way to get the base stats needed (especially agi)? And what's the deal with the mentioned discrepancies?

Also, I tried to find a list of what's actually implemented with regards to trinkets, glyphs etc, but am not finding one. Does that exist?

That chardev profile seems to be the wrong one for the values. E.g. it uses profession perks, JC and BS.
Glyphs and trinkets should all be supported, it's always just the name in all lowercase and spaces replaced by underscores, glyphs also tend to remove the first 'of'
Glyph of Steady Shot => glyph_steady_shot=1
Fury of the Five Flights => fury_of_the_five _flights=1

And you always enter just your stats from gear without talents/buffs.

Naesstrom · 06/06/09, 11:28 AM

hmm, I just have a small question, probably just missunderstanding it all...
I'm using simcraft with pawn addon and just entering the scales into the addon... I capped my hit last night and the simcraft run shows 0% misses, but it still gives me the highest scale value on hit with 1.59! shouldn't that be lower since I don't need any more of it?

Starfox · 06/06/09, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Naesstrom

hmm, I just have a small question, probably just missunderstanding it all...
I'm using simcraft with pawn addon and just entering the scales into the addon... I capped my hit last night and the simcraft run shows 0% misses, but it still gives me the highest scale value on hit with 1.59! shouldn't that be lower since I don't need any more of it?

Stats that cap out, Hit and Expertise, derive their scaling with negativ deltas.

Naesstrom · 06/06/09, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Starfox

Stats that cap out, Hit and Expertise, derive their scaling with negativ deltas.

sorry to be sounding stupid... but what does that mean in english

sjogren · 06/06/09, 12:04 PM

It means that instead of looking at how much dps you gain by adding 250 hit rating, we look at how much you lose by removing 250 hit rating.

Hagen · 06/24/09, 6:27 AM

Concerning Precision Shots (4 pieces T8 bonus):

// FIXME: Does it have a cooldown?

This should be 45s.

// FIXME: does it need to hit to proc?

ASSUMPTION: The wording implies it just needs Steady Shot to be cast.

Lurgllgluh · 06/29/09, 6:56 PM

Armory imports have been implemented (and mostly tested now) for simcraft. You can run like this:

simcraft armory=us,realm,playername

(and any other options you want). This will import "playername" and all that player's gear, enchants, gems, talents, etc from wowarmory and run a simulation for that player, with a default action list. If you want to save/edit the effective configuration that this would be using, you can do:

simcraft armory=us,realm,playername save_profiles=1

This will write a config file called save_playername.simcraft which you can tweak and then use on subsequent runs.

This all should provide a nice convenient way to run simulations on your actual toons without having to manually copy info from armory into a .simcraft file

Hagen · 06/29/09, 7:30 PM

Great feature, thank you for your good work!

Some small issues I found during my first test:
-ammo isn't loaded/added to the config file (add a default value?)
-there is no pet family set (add wolf as default?)
-the armor penetration on my Boots of the Renewed Flight wasn't read correctly (was missing)