SimulationCraft for Hunters - Page 9

Nooska · 01/26/11, 1:06 PM

Originally Posted by alienangel

While looking into it, I've never seen a proper post 4.0 run down (actually I don't remember a 3.0 one either, and bosses have blocked us from the front for a long time) of how blocks and crits interact for us. Do blocks suppress our crits? Is it different for autoshots vs specials? I remember a long time ago there was some difference in behaviour for arcane shot being blocked vs other shots (I think arcane could crit while blocked, but others couldn't).

Not really the thread to document this, but relevant to the simulation if you are going to try to simulate time in front of blocking bosses.

There was a 3.0 rundown with some pretty big data sets though they started from something else: Focused Aim reducing Crit Return

Gavinas · 01/27/11, 1:48 PM

Had some time to do some testing. Using a gear set with 27.85% crit chance on the char sheet and shooting the boss dummy with cobra shot (+60% crit) gave:

Cobra Shot:

Auto Shot:

The Auto Shot test matches very well to 27.85% crit - 4.8% crit reduction on lvl 88 targets as a one-roll attack. The Cobra Shot test matches very well to a 2-roll attack where blocks cannot crit ((229+1062)*0.8305 = 1072). Based on this data Simcraft has been updated to apply the 4.8% crit reduction seen for melee attacks to ranged attacks and no longer allows blocked specials to crit.

Rhy · 01/27/11, 7:31 PM

I no longer play my hunter, but one of our guild members brought this up tonight. Back in ICC, I noticed that not all of our shots behaved the same way when they were getting blocked - some of them could both crit and be blocked, and some couldn't. The problem that I ran into was that I had no idea how those shots are expected to behave. I read that white attacks (Auto Shot) should not be able to be a crit and a block at the same time, while yellow attacks (specials) should be able to. But that is as far as I got.

Anyway, here are the links of my previous posts - Hunter: Simple Questions/Simple Answers Hunter: Simple Questions/Simple Answers Hunter: Simple Questions/Simple Answers.

I pulled the old script I used from one of the posts above and ran it on a couple of recent logs. Here's what I got:

[19:36:22.821] Irowyn Maul Arcanotron *19180* (B: 8220)
[19:44:37.782] Irowyn Swipe Toxitron *3695* (B: 1584)
[19:54:22.483] Tipsi Bloodthirst Magmatron *25443* (B: 10904)
[19:59:44.219] Irowyn Lacerate Electron *2473* (B: 1060)
[20:14:54.741] Irowyn Thrash Toxitron *5176* (B: 2219)
[21:04:14.987] Cesoir Improved Serpent Sting Arcanotron *5308* (B: 2275)
[20:00:29.984] Reeno Heroic Strike Magmatron *21576* (B: 9247)
[19:31:04.798] Tipsi Cleave Orphaned Emerald Whelp *26264* (B: 11256)
[20:02:23.644] Sylvestra Envenom Chimaeron *36017* (B: 15436)
[19:37:52.736] Sludgiez Black Arrow Chimaeron *8807* (B: 3775)
[19:55:20.593] Tufib Shield Slam Chimaeron *8679* (B: 3720)
[21:33:55.877] Tufib Cleave Vile Swill *18624* (B: 7982)
[22:58:58.826] Tufib Revenge Aberration *6212* (B: 2663)
[22:59:51.761] Tufib Shockwave Aberration *3054* (B: 1309)

The amount of logs I went through is definitely quite low, but I think we can safely say that not all abilities behave the same way. Why? I really have no idea. Maybe it is intended, maybe it isn't.

I hope that you will find at least something useful in this post.

Gavinas · 01/28/11, 11:22 AM

Seems that you're correct. I used the expression editor on WoLogs for 3-4 random parses from the dps rankings for each hunter spec to search for "isCritical and blocked>0" and found the following abilities that are able to simultaneously crit and be blocked:

Hunter:
Imp Serpent Sting
Pet Basic Attack
Kill Command

Paladin:
Shield of the Righteous

Warrior:
Heroic Strike
Revenge
Cleave
Shield Slam
Bloodthirst
Execute

Rogue:
Envenom
Eviscerate

Druid
Rake
Lacerate
Maul
Swipe

This almost certainly isn't an exhaustive list so if anyone has logs showing additional abilities simultaneously critting and being blocked please share your data.

Lokrick · 01/28/11, 7:47 PM

Originally Posted by Gavinas

This almost certainly isn't an exhaustive list so if anyone has logs showing additional abilities simultaneously critting and being blocked please share your data.

I went through my guilds logs for the last month, and only found Warrior Shockwave in addition to the ones you list.
[23:44:41.373] Grizzletusk Shockwave Twilight Phase-Twister *14493* (B: 6211)

Lokrick · 02/13/11, 4:51 AM

The release of simc 4.0.6 and occasional slanders I hear about "easy" BM rotations inspired me to take a first cut at action rules for more complex, higher dps BM priorities. The SimC trials were done with my character (pre-raid BIS ilvl 351) and verified with the 372 BIS configuration included with Simc. I used simc-406-1 with 5k iterations; version 2 is out but has no changes in the hunter module. The goals that drove these choices were:

Cobra displaces Arcane during Careful Aim
Bestial Wrath periods include 2 Kill Commands and the rest Arcane or Kill shots
Haste effects (RF, etc.) should not be overlapped with BW
BW does not include GCDs spent on Fervor, Cobra, etc.
Serpent sting refreshes with increased damage from BW

The stock default actions with my commentary are:

DPS me: 19842 bis: 25424
actions=flask,type=winds
actions+=/food,type=seafood_magnifique_feast
actions+=/hunters_mark
actions+=/summon_pet
actions+=/tolvir_potion,if=!in_combat|buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=60
actions+=/auto_shot
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/blood_fury,time>=10 # remove time delay because it makes it not align with early BW
actions+=/aspect_of_the_hawk
actions+=/serpent_sting,if=!ticking # move after BW so that % increase in dmg is sustained by refresh
# I'm not sure whether the game still does that, but SimC thinks it's a dps increase
actions+=/rapid_fire,if=!buff.bloodlust.up # delay after and don't overlap with BW
actions+=/kill_shot                        # delay to get the BW buff
actions+=/bestial_wrath                    # make sure there's enough focus for a full spam
actions+=/fervor,if=focus<=20              # shoudn't do this in BW
actions+=/focus_fire,five_stacks=1,if=!buff.beast_within.up
actions+=/kill_command                     # should not be delayed for fervor or focus fire
actions+=/arcane_shot,if=focus>=57         # need to spam in BW and preserve more focus outside it
actions+=/cobra_shot

Individual changes showed noticeable dps improvement by themselves (e.g., just moving rapid fire down, or moving serpent and kill after BW). My current best action list based on all above comments is:

DPS me: 20976 bis: 25642
actions=flask,type=winds
actions+=/food,type=seafood_magnifique_feast
actions+=/hunters_mark
actions+=/summon_pet
actions+=/tolvir_potion,if=!in_combat|buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=60
actions+=/auto_shot
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/aspect_of_the_hawk
actions+=/blood_fury
actions+=/bestial_wrath,if=focus>60
actions+=/serpent_sting,if=!ticking
actions+=/kill_shot
actions+=/rapid_fire,if=!buff.bloodlust.up&!buff.beast_within.up
actions+=/kill_command
actions+=/fervor,if=focus<=20
actions+=/focus_fire,five_stacks=1,if=!buff.beast_within.up
actions+=/arcane_shot,if=buff.beast_within.up # spam in BW
actions+=/arcane_shot,if=focus>=90      # note the much higher cap
actions+=/cobra_shot

I inspected generated logs, and the above rules did better for my profile at getting efficient usage of BW than for the BIS profile. For example, using the BIS profile I saw more BW sequences with Fervor, only 6 arcanes, etc. As is, this action list provides 1-5% dps improvement over the current stock rules for both a high and low gear set. I look forward to further improvements for both the above rules and the goals they are targeting.

Gavinas · 02/13/11, 12:39 PM

Thanks for the suggestions. I confirmed that they showed as a dps increase and updated the BM default action list in r7179.

TrevvyTrev · 02/16/11, 8:36 PM

Originally Posted by Lokrick

Serpent sting refreshes with increased damage from BW

This no longer is necessary. Serpent Sting ticks automatically increase during BW, and automatically fade to normal when it is over. I tested this last week on the training dummies. The only benefit of a refresh would be in the form of an increased Improved Serpent Sting proc (which obviously is inferior to an Arcane Shot).

Gavinas · 02/17/11, 1:30 PM

Originally Posted by TrevvyTrev

This no longer is necessary. Serpent Sting ticks automatically increase during BW, and automatically fade to normal when it is over. I tested this last week on the training dummies. The only benefit of a refresh would be in the form of an increased Improved Serpent Sting proc (which obviously is inferior to an Arcane Shot).

To confirm, do you mean this occurs just by toggling BW without refreshing the duration of your SS with cobra shot or recasting it?

Althor · 02/19/11, 4:00 AM

I have updated the Hunter module with the announced Aimed Shot nerf and the Aspect of the Hawk buff.
Results can be found at: Simulationcraft Results

Quick summary: Hardcasting Aimed Shot MM is still by far the top spec/rotation and has gained around +2500 DPS.

Satyric · 02/19/11, 5:09 AM

Originally Posted by Gavinas

To confirm, do you mean this occurs just by toggling BW without refreshing the duration of your SS with cobra shot or recasting it?

You don't have to refresh, unless it's bugged (I have not tested). Shadow priest dots, I can confirm, has the same mechanic. The damage gets recalculated before each tick.

sceone · 02/19/11, 7:23 AM

Seems there's some mistake in simulation result. Aimed shot damage's increased in the chart but it cannot be.

RAP scaling for Aimed shot will be severely decreased by this hotfix.
Aimed shot damage was originally (NWD_min~max + 0.724RAP + 776) * 200% + (min_0 ~ max_200)
and blue post says that they'll replace 200% by 160%.

RAP scale on Aimed shot is 184.8%(there's 20% in NWD) before the hotfix and will be 147.84% after the hotfix.

kuhvacako · 02/19/11, 7:35 AM

The hotfix only mention weapon scaling not the AP scaling. Has it been confirmed that Aimed Shot is coded In a strange way so the weapon scaling effects the AP scaling (thus making the 4.06 ptr notes not line up with in game) OR it is just anyones guess?

sceone · 02/19/11, 7:44 AM

Aimed Shot - Spell - World of Warcraft
A powerful aimed shot that deals 200% ranged weapon damage plus (RAP * 0.724)+776.

It's { NWD + (RAP*0.724) + 776 } * 200% ( + 0~200_min~max )
not (NWD * 200%) + (RAP*0.724) + 776

You can see it from dummy test.

Gavinas · 02/19/11, 1:40 PM

I've updated Simcraft svn trunk to include the 160% weapon damage nerf also affecting the RAP coefficient to be 1.6*0.724. Including the AoTH buff this does nerf AiS damage from ~48.8k avg to ~45.5k avg in the BiS 372 gear set. Despite this it is still a net buff to the spec, and the AiS rotation is still simming higher than the Arcane Shot rotation by ~2k dps.

However, I recommend taking all this with a grain of salt until the hotfix is actually live and we can confirm the AiS changes with some dummy testing.