Was stated that not all announced/intended class changes made it into this build. Those additional talents will probably be added in a later PTR build.

*edit* delete please. redundant.

MM tree seems still seriously bloated with talents. For example Imp. AS and Barrage should be merged, since MM rotations seem to be covering both. Would open up 3 points for other stuff like Imp. HM or FA.

Uhm.

So, if I see that correctly, the "Glyph of Aimed Shot" now reduces its CD by 2 seconds instead of saving 20% Mana. (Taken from the MMO-Champion Talent-Calc). This, combined with the DMG-Bonus from "Sniper Training" makes AS really overpower Multishot for Deep-SV (and maybe Deep-MM aswell?).

And the 30% DMG-Buff from Trap Mastery is nice too, if added to the "Glyph of Immolation Trap" DMG-Boost AND the 6% T.N.T Damage Boost... did I forget some Immo.-Trap-Boost?

I sense that a SV-Rotation around BA, ES, AS with Immolation Trap will be the way to go. Maybe just flinging in 2 or 3 Steady Shots per Minute or so because now we have A LOT of GCDs to overcome...

... I sincerely hope that by now, Blizzard knows enough to take the Trap Launcher ability off GCD, particularly as, for SV, it's supposed to be part of our opening salvo for raiding DPS rotations.

Since Serpent does more damage than Steady, add 10% to Steady's damage and contributes +3% damage via Noxious Stings, I can see it staying in SV's rotation. What's interesting is that LnL now procs off both rolling Immolation ticks and Black Arrow ticks. Napkin maths says that the compounded proc chances will pull LnL's downtime much closer to its internal cooldown (even accounting for Black Arrow's slight odd 50% downtime).

The only problem I can see right now is that SV in particular will have to deal with a number of different cooldowns which clash and alias all over the place... the worst example being Serpent's refusal to sit on a nice 6-second boundary :p Even at the moment, it feels a little inelegant. It'd be nice if Blizzard rationalized the various cooldowns a little, and made them mesh better.

Edit: I suspect that the Aimed Shot glyph just won't be able to replace Serpent, Steady or (Immolation/Hawk) glyphs for raw PvE damage.

Even if it does use 2 global cooldowns, because explosive shot will be refreshing the immolation trap after it is launched, these 2 global cooldowns should only be necessary at the beginning of the battle and not a repetitive part of your rotation. This would be like placing Hunter's Mark on the target.

Immolation Trap Immolation Trap - Spell - World of Warcraft (15 second duration)
Explosive Shot Explosive Shot - Spell - World of Warcraft (6 second cooldown)

Glyph: [Glyph of Immolation Trap] (9 second duration)

Unglyphed, even if it misses once, you will have at least one more attempt to refresh it before it goes down. Glyphed, you'll need to be hitcapped. From all appearances, this seems like a self-sustaining trap once launched. This is certainly a buff.

One of the more interesting changes is trap mastery becoming more accessible. This also means that on top of the glyphed immolation trap dmg of 50% per tick, you get another 30% multiplier from trap mastery, which should now be mandatory. Note that the calculator at mmo-champion is not showing the explosive shot refresh properly on Trap mastery and the Trap Launch talent is nowhere that I can see.

Here is the talent build I am looking at currently for the listed changes:
(5/15/51 Aimed shot filler): http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...0&version=9614

I'm getting different numbers than Neruse.

Explosive Shot ([RAP * 0.16 + 428]-[RAP * 0.16 + 516]) - 6 second cooldown
Serpent Sting ([RAP * 0.1 + 1885]) - must be reapplied every 15 seconds
Aimed Shot (Ranged Dmg + 405) - 10 second cooldown
Immolation Trap ([RAP * 0.1 + 1885 dmg over 15 seconds)

From a rough sketch of a 30s rotation, it would appear that you get the following:

Edit (bad math on Immolation with glyph. Not sure why I put 1.5 instead of 2)

1 Black Arrow (RAP * .1 + 2765)
5 Explosives (assume [RAP * 0.16 + 472] * 3)
4 Aimed Shots (Ranged Dmg + 405)
2 Serpent Sting durations ([RAP * 0.1 + 1885])
8 Steady shots (RAP * 0.1 + 252)
2 Immolation Trap durations (RAP * 0.1 + 1885 dmg) * 2 (Glyph) * 1.3 (Trap Mastery) * 1.06 (TnT) * 1.03 (Black Arrow - I halved the coefficient to note it only extends over half the 30s duration)

Immol: 2 * (7000 * .1 + 1885) * 2 * 1.3 * 1.06 * 1.03 = 2585 * 5.67736 = 14675.9756 / 30s = 489.20 dps

I was unsure if this was correct, seeing as how the glyph shortens the duration. This should results in 2585 / 5 = 517 tick base (once every 3s) for a total of 10 ticks in that duration.

517 * 2 (Glyph) * 1.3 (Trap Mastery) * 1.06 (TnT) * 1.03 (Black Arrow) = 1467.59756 every 3s * 10 = 14675.9756 = 489.20 dps, so I'm pretty sure the above calculation is correct.


It would appear that immolation will perfectly replace serpent sting for LnL procs with a gain of ~300 dps off the top and a better synergy with our 51 point tree defining ability. The coefficient of black arrow against noxious stings should be equivalent, even though the 1.06 coefficient is misleading compared to the 1.03 coefficient of noxious with full uptime.

The question that has been posed here is whether or not it is worth keeping serpent sting up vs including 2 more steady shots.

2 Steady over 30s: (7000 * .1 + 252) * 2 = 1904 / 30 = 63.466 dps
Serpent Sting over 30s: (7000 * .1 + 1885) * 2 = 5170 / 30 = 172.33 dps
dps loss = 172.33 - 63.466 = 108.864 dps

The dps loss from not using serpents would actually be slightly larger because the glyph would no longer be meaningful

2 Steady over 30s: (7000 * .1 + 252) * 10 * .1 = 952 / 30 = 31.73 dps
total dps loss from replacing serpent with steady = 108.864 + 31.73 = 140.594 dps

Even assuming 100% crit of steady with 2x dps would only yield 126.93 dps, and you'd still have the lost potential of the glyph.

I'm pretty sure the rotation should remain similar to what you have been doing with Black Arrow inserted every 30s and the addition of a trap launch with immolation after you Hunter's Mark.

As for dps gained from black arrow over what is currently in the rotation:

Black Arrow over 30s: (7000 * .1 + 2765) * 1.06 (sniper) = 3672.9 / 30 = 122.43 dps.

For those of us who were having no mana problems in 25 mans, we seem to be gaining over 400 dps with these changes from my rough numbers.

Edit: Redid the math for Immolation with glyph. 1.5 -> 2 coefficient with glyph. Immo appears to be 489 dps without CoE (which I've never had in raids) vs the 172.33 dps from serpent sting for LnL previously.

Why wouldn't you just drop points from TotH and also one in Expose(that point is marginal with current critrates)
Something like this will allow you to keep up BA, SS and have the nice % modifiers from both, in addition to having 30% stronger immo traps.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...0&version=9614

In fact due to trap mastery's position you can even get those points back as you don't need to take Hawkeye to get higher in the tree..

As I understand it, the only reason for SV to dump points into Imp.Hawk is because by short-changing Hunting Party, we have enough points to get one point into Focused Fire, which is about the only decent place to put all 6 'leftover' points on Live. With the changes in 3.1, wouldn't the best SV build be something more like this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...0&version=9614

Edit: I'm assuming that by the time it reaches Live, Hunting Party will finally be worth maxing... obviously the current PTR version is not remotely compelling

i didnt check the math but imo getting noxious sting is better than master tactician i m thinking to use this spec http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...&version=9614# % 26 dmg bonus to expo shot and immo trap is insane

I think that the best talent tree for SV will be:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...&version=9614#

assuming that ES refresh immolation trap, and will be possible to have dots from SS and BA at the same time. (and gain BA +6% dmg , SS via noxious sting +3% dmg)

Glyphs: Immo, Aimed, Hawk

Just as an FYI, there's some datamined glyph stuff for this patch (here).

I'm not sure of the validity of it, but here's the pertinent Hunter stuff:

EDIT: my bad, missed a point. delete pls

r33k, according to patch notes, T.N.T. re-designed: Increases the damage done by your Explosive Shot, Explosive Trap and Immolation Trap by 2/4/6%, and gives your Explosive Shot a 33/66/100% chance to refresh the duration of your Immolation Trap effect on the target.

So you wont need to reapply it.

Can someone please link where they are finding that ES will refresh Immo Trap, I can't seem to find reference to it.

Garr, nevermind I found it

They announced the change that IMMUNE results from traps won't proc LnL basically. That means Frost(and of course Freezing) traps on bosses is no longer viable.

It will however still work on trash (if the boss has any trash mobs). Then remains the question of whether or not the internal cd on LnL still will be absent for frost trap.

Kabes, no clue about 51 pointer BM talent. But i guess those will be BM only, blizzard's way of buffing BM dps.

I also found new glyphs on mmo-champion.

* Glyph - Aimed Shot -- Reduces the cooldown of your Aimed Shot ability by 2 sec. (Old: Reduces the mana cost of your aimed shot ability by 20%)
* Glyph of the Monkey -- While Aspect of the Monkey or Aspect of the Dragonhawk are active, each time you dodge you gain 30% increased movement speed for 6 sec. Can only occur every 20 sec. This speed does not stack with other movement speed increasing effects. (Old: Glyph of Aspect of the Monkey -- While Aspect of the Monkey or Aspect of the Dragonhawk are active, each time you dodge you gain 30% increased movement speed for 6 sec. This speed does not stack with other movement speed increasing effects.)
* Glyph of Wyvern Sting -- Decreases the cooldown of your Wyvern Sting by 6 sec. (Old: Decreases the cooldown of your Wyvern Sting by 15 sec., but decreases the damage it deals by 20%.)
* Glyph of Snake Trap -- Snakes generated by your Snake Trap take 90% reduced damge from area of effect spells. (Old: Your Snake Trap creates 2 additional snakes)
* Glyph of the Hawk -- Increases the haste bonus of the Improved Aspect of the Hawk effect by an additional 6%. (Old: Renamed from Glyph of Improved Aspect of the Hawk)
* Glyph of Chimera Shot *new* -- Reduces the cooldown of Chimera Shot by 1 sec.
* Glyph of Explosive Shot *new* -- Increases the critical strike chance of Explosive Shot by 4%.
* Glyph of Kill Shot *new* -- Reduces the cooldown of Kill Shot by 6 sec.
* Glyph of Explosive Trap *new* -- The periodic damage from your Explosive Trap can now be critical strikes.
* Glyph of Scatter Shot *new* -- Increases the range of Scatter Shot by 3 yards.
* Glyph of Raptor Strike *new* -- For 5 sec. after using Raptor Strike, you take 20% less damage.

Just so people know, this change and Trap Launcher are not on the current PTR version. These were changes added in the patch notes at some point, but later changes or removed all together.

Also, quivers and ammo remain unchanged for the time being.

Immo Trap *still* seems a little overpowered at the moment.

Base Damage + AP scaling + Black Arrow Bonus + Noxious Stings Bonus + Trap Mastery Bonus + T.N.T. Bonus + Glyph Bonus + Curse of Elements Bonus.

Assuming 7k AP (which really ain't high): (1885 + 7000 * 0,1) * 1,03 * 1,03 * 1,3 * 1,06 * 2 *1,13 = ~8540 Damage over 15 seconds, that's 1708 Damage per tick or nearly 570 dps. Then again, I think I have to miss something, it can't be that strong, can it?

Edit: Okay, found something. Of course it doesn't deal all it's damage within 9 seconds. Corrected, but it's still strong.
Edit²: Thanks down there.

It is 5 ticks, or 3 (with double the damage) if you have the glyph.

Piercing Shots seems to be as useless as ever, was seeing sub-100 damage ticks self-buffed. It doesn't stack or roll at all, but refreshes over itself even if the new DoT will do less damage. Quite disappointing to what I expected.

That's a real shame, I was expecting it to be more like warrior's deep wounds. It makes it a bit difficult to model properly though, were those sub-100 ticks with Steady Shot crits? If so a Chimera Crit should tick for quite a bit more.