I never said that SS LnL SHOULD proc once per minute. I said it currently does, and that's the only reason your argument makes sense in your head.

My point was you are comparing a 10% possible proc rate to what appears to be a current 5% proc rate, and saying we won't lose anything, even though the old talent says we should have had a 10% proc rate in the first place. The talent was misleading before. The real issue that is causing people to think this will lead to a lower proc rate is that the implemented proc rate for SS LnL seems to be lower than what is on the talent. Assuming a 10% proc rate per tick, LnL should have procc'd just under twice per minute with SS (because the independence of the events should have led to P(A+B)). This is not the case.

The people you were criticizing were assuming that Blizzard would not fix the proc rate to be what it was supposed to be (leaving it at 5-6% instead) and causing BA to proc only once per two minutes. I was also trying to point out that the cooldown for LnL is less likely of a culprit for the low proc rate for SS LnL. If you look at the probability tables I constructed, you can see that if we had assumed a 10% proc rate (as the old talent indicates), even with a 30 second lockout, there is still an excellent probability of proccing an additional LnL within that minute (assuming 10% proc rate), and theoretically, you should be closer to 2 proc rates per minute if the proc rate was actually 10%, due to independent probability (barring only the cooldown as a tie in).

Finally, in that same message, I noted that if the BA proc rate turns out to only be 5%, inheriting from SS's proc rate, they will fix it. GC even said "if the proc rate is too low, we'll fix it". At this point, I think it's safe to assume that the 10% proc rate will be implemented or some mechanism to keep us at 1 proc per minute. It might not be in the initial incarnation of BA, but I think all of us expect this patch to stay on the PTR for at least a month - which should give some time for testing. In other words, I was telling the people you were arguing with to not panic, but I was disagreeing with the method of your analysis. It's not that it's wrong if 10% BA proc is compared to 5% SS proc, it's that the talent would seem to indicate that you should be comparing 10% BA proc to 10% SS proc, and that's what has people all up in arms about a 50% less proc chances scenario. If BA inherits the 5% proc from SS, you WILL see 50% less procs, which is why people are saying all over the WoW Damage Dealing / Hunter forums (you'll need to adjust the proc rate).

Not entirely true. As has been mentioned before, if you are a MM trying out a LnL Arcane spec, you would have the option of immolation trapping and getting the same proc rate as BA LnL (since Immolation and BA share the same cooldown right now and have the same duration and refresh - every 3s). Sniper training no longer has a range restriction, so we don't have any real issues with being in the melee group behind the boss anymore (and it's not available to MM anyway - too deep into survival). Consequently, if a MM stays just out of melee range, they may be able to trap with immolation trap and get LnL procs at hopefully once per minute.

Basing a confirmation on a third party site not including the refresh in their own private calculator system should not lead to the conclusion that it is entirely out of the Blizzard agenda, and GC has noted that the PTR build is not their development build (meaning you don't have the latest copy). However, GC has said it's unlikely for this and trap launcher to be included by 3.1.0 release, but there is still some hope. That's about the closest to confirmation you are going to get.

I think it's safe to say that they are working on a massive patch, and they still have a lot of work to do. Any "confirmation" at this point is closer to conjecture than confirmation. Even what GC says is a best estimate of patch schedule and current intent. It is likely that we will see many reversals of policy, just as has happened in every PTR session since Beta .

It seems out friend here got entirely washed out during all the LnL and pet talent stuff (overall I like the pet changes a lot, if it works).

Anyway, as far as I understand the talent is currently NYI, so there is no way to specifically test it.

BUT, if you read the talent and apply the mechanic to other talents then this is actually pretty straightforward, though possibly the first of it's kind.

Essentially what the text implies is that it times your time standing still. After 6 seconds you gain a 15 second buff buffing the shots for 6%. During that time you can stand still another 6 seconds and refresh the buff, or you can spend the time running around, dodging Chills and flames on Heigan. If you stand still for 6 seconds, get the buff, then you are 'free' to move about for 9 seconds if you want 100% uptime.

I think that is actually a pretty decent buff to something we assumed would require you to stand still all the time. Now we can get it applied then move. On Sartharion this should improve the uptime considerably over the previous line of thought. There will be quite a few situations where we stand still more than 6 seconds, but then we run around for a while beofre a small break again. Quite helpful on those short-mobile short-standing still events. Less so on longer periods like Heigan, but still better if you get the proc as you leave the platform (having it for a third of the dance is not bad at all).

Has anyone done any testing of the Silverback pet talent on PTR yet? I'd really like to see some data to compare.

I just did a test vs a training dummy running 2/2 Spirit Bond (for the heals), 2/2 Blood of the Rhino (for the heals), 2/2 Wild Hunt (extra stam) and 2/2 Silverback (Growl heals for 2% total health). Pet has 19334 unbuffed hp and the combat log is showing Silverback heals for 3573 every 3.5 seconds from growl. This is with a Gorilla as the pet.

I'm baffled that I didn't come across one (1!) warrior with this potential in PvP or knowing about this so he could just ignore my trap... Well, I believe your word of course. But then again I have to say that if this is intended to happen (I don't hope so. But on the other hand, let's be fair, most Warriors don't really stand a chance against a well played hunter, no matter how good THEY play. Since the new Disengage that is.) it is just one more way to avoid the LnL burst to come. If a Shaman/Paladin/Druid dispelled your SerpentSting, he would also just be using an ability of his arsenal to counter yours. Or in other words: A warrior with spellreflect ready for a Frost Trap is just a far sighted player doing fine in PvPing a Hunter.

It doesn't mean at all that non-SV Hunters would be excluded from using LnL.

Not sure if it was mentioned before, but resourcefulness is reducing BA cooldown aswell (by up to 6 seconds for that matter).

Is that intended? Since the resourcefulness tooltip doesn't mention anything about reducing CD of BA.

Okay... updated Blizz patch notes:

Main points I see...

*15% haste on autoshot only, to replace quivers. Steady shot nerf there.
*Explosive shot nerf. Either to 12.5% or 14.2% depending on precisely what they mean.
*Viper Sting drains 25% of previous amount. Hunter gets three times that in mana.
*LnL periodic procs down to 6%.

Ouch SV?

Especially with the haste nerf, BM is looking better and better again.

Updated Patch notes on test include the following:

- Survival

• Explosive Shot: Base damage lowered by 10%. Attack power scaling reduced by 12.5%.

World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> [Updated] 3.1.0 PTR Patch Notes

Given how large a portion of overall survival DPS consists of ES, how big of a hit is this?

Edit: Beaten to it by seconds.

I'd say autoshot now includes 15% quicker shooting, not just 15% haste to autoshots.

I found these to be new. Pets are now standerdized. Depending on one's opinion that is either a good thing or a bad thing. Personally I think its good as it opens up more pet options.

The spell hit transfer/pet hit cap sounds like a pure buff for hunters that use pets with "spell" type abilities over physical attacks. For sure a very nice change for all those BM hunters with Loq.