What's really interesting is that Blizzard actually caters to that behaviour. I thought the 'solo old stuff' was more or less something they didn't entirely like. Hence the gold nerfs to ZG, Ony and AQ20. Maybe they will retract it soon again because their idea was to help BM Hunters on pet unfriendly fights like Sarth 3D (though even with 40% buff Mend Pet will never save a pet that has been hit by either a wave or a void zone).
I hope by void zone you're referring to the Kel'Thuzad void zones, because Sarth + drake void zones won't kill a pet by any stretch of the imagination (even with the shadow damage buffing drake still alive). Hell, I don't even bother pulling my pet out of those zones.
As for the updated Mend Pet glyph, I'm just glad there is another way to increase the amount Mend Pet heals. Unfortunately, as a Minor Glyph it can't really be used by raid specs, but oh well. They're trying.
Last edited by Steelfleece : 03/13/09 at 4:52 PM.
If you aren't a goblin, why not?
If you are a goblin you rule
So with the explosive shot refreshing the immolation trap cd in the new PTR build, what's the viability of glyphing for immolation trap? Depending on when the shot refreshes the trap, this could potentially give hunters a very narrow window to refresh the glyphed trap and reward it with tons of added dps.
So with the explosive shot refreshing the immolation trap cd in the new PTR build, what's the viability of glyphing for immolation trap? Depending on when the shot refreshes the trap, this could potentially give hunters a very narrow window to refresh the glyphed trap and reward it with tons of added dps.
Noticed the same thing on the official notes... could it be a mistake? Or do we really have the potential of having both Immo going AND Back Arrow again? That would be awesome news. I really like the refreshing talents, so this one certainly counts.
Looking at the potential DPS of Immo Trap. [RAP * 0.1 + 1540]
So if we assume 6k RAP and the 13% spelldamage buff, then it does: (2140 * 1.13) = ~2418
That's over 15 seconds or 161.2 DPS. 100% on top of that (assuming we are good enough at keeping it up) it would do some 322.4 DPS. The glyph obviously being worth 161.2 DPS.
I'm not certain that is enough to match the oher glyphs tbh.
Just tested Focused Aim on the PTR. Seems this talent is giving the +hit to pets now. Had my cat do over 1000 hits on the heroic dummy with 5% paperdoll hit + 3/3 FA. Zero misses. Respeced out of FA and my pet was missing again. Can anyone confirm this?
So with the explosive shot refreshing the immolation trap cd in the new PTR build, what's the viability of glyphing for immolation trap? Depending on when the shot refreshes the trap, this could potentially give hunters a very narrow window to refresh the glyphed trap and reward it with tons of added dps.
Except it doesn't work in PTR right now. T.N.T. is still the same talent, it might be a mistake in official notes, or they might be planning to implement it in next PTR push.
Concussive Barrage works on Boss Dummy btw, and gives the expected damage boost for steadyshots. Need to put this all into spreadsheet, but it might turn out to be a decent pve talent after all.
I was thinking about the new Viper Sting just now, and I'm not convinced it can possibly go live like this.
Now, they're intending to reduce Marks' problem with going oom all the time, and other specs really can't run oom right now. But given that survival is losing 2/3 - 3/4 of the possible JoW procs from explosive shot, and all specs are losing the possibility of having mana spring in addition to the other mana-restoring effects, it seems possible that hunters will start to care about mana again in 3.1. That appears to be the design -- all mana classes should be worried about mana, not using maximum dps minimum dpm rotations. If blizzard is able to execute on their stated design, hunters will care about mana.
So: given that, and regardless of whether the current build of the ptr makes that assertion true or not -- Viper Sting seems fundamentally broken. Assuming bosses have either 0 or infinity mana (which is pretty much a given since they don't want you to be draining bosses to 0 mana unless it's part of the mechanics of the fight), viper sting will restore 8% * 300% = 24% of the hunter's maximum mana every 15 seconds, at a cost of 8% of maximum mana to cast it. This is a gigantic amount of mana (if you have 12000 mana, which is extremely conservative for raid buffed, it's worth about 2000 net mana, which comes out to 128 mana per second or 640 mp5) for which non-Marks specs trade relatively little dps (and the drop in DPS is compensated partially by more regen for marks hunters through chimera effect and refresh). I think it's probably worthwhile to use it rather than going to AotV (more often), in a world where hunters care about mana. And that's the fundamental problem: if we care about mana, it's worth using in pve, and that means there will be a significant difference in hunter DPS vs bosses with mana bars and hunter DPS vs bosses without mana bars. This is an inequality on the order of the one fixed by the recent Spiritual Attunement removal.
I would not expect Viper Sting to remain in its current form, unless bosses (and all their adds) become immune to it or you can start casting it on targets with no mana.
Last edited by Tsook : 03/13/09 at 9:29 PM.
Reason: mp1 != mp5
Well, using viper sting equals losing around 400 dps due to not having Chimera Serpents. And not all bosses do have mana in the first place. I don't think it'll make a big difference in the long run.
Most best current glyphs give between 50-80 dps so 150+ from Immo trap is a pretty damned good.
Concussive Barrage works on Boss Dummy btw, and gives the expected damage boost for steadyshots. Need to put this all into spreadsheet, but it might turn out to be a decent pve talent after all.
If CB does give the bonus daze steady damage on boss mobs, that'd be around 50-75 dps for marks. Obviously still doesn't bring marks up to survival, but with enough hunters in the raid it might be useful to have one spec for it.
Well, using viper sting equals losing around 400 dps due to not having Chimera Serpents. And not all bosses do have mana in the first place. I don't think it'll make a big difference in the long run.
That's exactly my point. Of course, it's predicated on them making hunters care about mana, but losing 400 DPS from time to time is just hunky dory if that means you don't have to go into aotv at all. And it's a much smaller DPS loss for non-marks specs.
I don't really think blizzard wants hunters to have to worry about mana unless it's a mana-using boss, in which case we have no worries at all. That's essentially identical to what Ghostcrawler said about SA just minutes ago.
We don't actually like Holy and Ret having SA. It makes their mana regen depend too much on the encounter specifics. On fights like Patchwerk, they have no mana from SA. On dragon fights, they have a ton. That makes it hard to tune on our end because they are either starved in the first case or drowning in the second case.
That's exactly my point. Of course, it's predicated on them making hunters care about mana, but losing 400 DPS from time to time is just hunky dory if that means you don't have to go into aotv at all. And it's a much smaller DPS loss for non-marks specs.
I don't really think blizzard wants hunters to have to worry about mana unless it's a mana-using boss, in which case we have no worries at all. That's essentially identical to what Ghostcrawler said about SA just minutes ago.
Yeah you are right, a survival hunter wouldn't need to go AOTV at all with the new viper sting. But let's wait and see what happens with the mana regen in actual bossfights. Yes mana regen overall is nerfed but it might not be that big a nerf, maybe couple seconds with AOTV will suffice in the end.
Most best current glyphs give between 50-80 dps so 150+ from Immo trap is a pretty damned good.
If CB does give the bonus daze steady damage on boss mobs, that'd be around 50-75 dps for marks. Obviously still doesn't bring marks up to survival, but with enough hunters in the raid it might be useful to have one spec for it.
Marks runs close to Surv in PTR right now, at least in my tests against dummies, but if they go ahead with this immolation trap refresh idea and put it in, then survival is going to get an extra 400 dps. Which will put it way ahead of MM.
The spreadsheet numbers are slightly inflated (it assumes machine precision), but I consider the relative positions of the specs to be accurate enough. Still puts SV about 2-300 above MM, but this could very easily be solved by buffing Chimera to 150% weapon damage (puts MM within 1%, theoretically).
Eh, we'll see. There will be inevitable hotfixes to nerf and/or buff various specs across all classes within 2 weeks of Ulduar release.
Yes let's hope they implement the the TNT change in next build. But that would put survival well ahead of MM, so maybe couple more MM changes are coming.
Just tested Focused Aim on the PTR. Seems this talent is giving the +hit to pets now. Had my cat do over 1000 hits on the heroic dummy with 5% paperdoll hit + 3/3 FA. Zero misses. Respeced out of FA and my pet was missing again. Can anyone confirm this?
Can this be confirmed?
I would think, if this was the case, that 3 points into FA would be greater than 3 points into UF ,from a MM perspective.
and further more, it would be over all dps boost by replacing gems/enchants/gear (if it does affect pets). I would imagine it would be of great benefit to BMs, not sure on SV since they don't have a lot of points to give.
I still don't expect that TNT change. The trees right now are balanced enough that you can pretty much play what you want in PvE and not be a hinderence on your raid. All specs should produce numbers within 200dps of each other which is negligible when we're talking 5k+.
Why? The way I see it, you'd drop a immo trap at the start of the boss fight, get to range, and just do a normal rotation..?
Trap launcher would make sure you could use immolation trap on any encounter. Without trap launcher, it would be alot more difficult on some encounters.
Also reapplying the immolation trap dot will be harder if you manage to loose your initial dot.
03/13/09, 4:09 PM
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